TOW 2k w/ Large Saurus Block

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

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Lizards 2k [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
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++ Characters [971 pts] ++

Saurus Oldblood [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- Carnosaur
- Blade Of Revered Tzunki
- Talisman of Protection

Slann Mage-Priest [350 pts]
- Hand weapon
- General
- Earthing Rod
- Higher State Of Mind
- Elementalism

Saurus Scar-Veteran [214 pts]
- Great weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Battle Standard Bearer [Banner of Iron Resolve]
- On foot
- Glyph Necklace

++ Core Units [599 pts] ++

23 Saurus Warriors [409 pts]
- Thrusting spears
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shieldwall
- Spawn Leader (champion) [Sword of Striking + Charmed Shield]
- Standard bearer
- Musician

12 Skink Skirmishers [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

12 Skink Skirmishers [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Special Units [175 pts] ++

Bastiladon [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Solar Engine

++ Rare Units [255 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [255 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Engine of the Gods

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Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Since I can't fit a Combat Lord, Slann, and high static res steg chief in one list, figured I might as well make a hard to shift higher static res saurus block.

Saurus champ is kitted to fight Wolves of the Sea in duels.

BSB goes in the block to make them stubborn and give them MR -2.

Slann buff the block with elemental spells as needed and generally stay behind them.

Preferred saurus over TG in this case for the larger block and spears for the second rank fighting.

Keep the Bastiladon nearby too for an Initiative buff and some flank defense.

Rest of the list is standard fare

 

[Ryanj4043]

I've been wanting to run something like this for a while so let me know how this goes. Just two quick question Why the BoTR over the Ogre blade, is this a local meta issue, and why not give one of the skinks scouts for some flexibility?

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I've been wanting to run something like this for a while so let me know how this goes. Just two quick question Why the BoTR over the Ogre blade, is this a local meta issue, and why not give one of the skinks scouts for some flexibility?

No scout skinks simply comes down to points. Had to cut 5 points somewhere. I may tune the list and cut 1-2 skinks and go back to scouts on one or both the other units, but that's just the decision I went with at the time when I was 5 points over.

I've used the Ogre Blade before, but it's a bit wasted on some targets. Great agaist Dragons if you catch them, but the multi wound is just excessive on anything without multi wound or regen. Havent used the BoRT. Wanted to try it out and see how I like it.

 

[Ryanj4043]

No scout skinks simply comes down to points. Had to cut 5 points somewhere. I may tune the list and cut 1-2 skinks and go back to scouts on one or both the other units, but that's just the decision I went with at the time when I was 5 points over.

I've used the Ogre Blade before, but it's a bit wasted on some targets. Great agaist Dragons if you catch them, but the multi wound is just excessive on anything without multi wound or regen. Havent used the BoRT. Wanted to try it out and see how I like it.

Yeah that makes sense, i build similar lists to this and after a combat old blood, slann, bastildon and steg it can get tight for points. Which is a shame cause i love stegs bastidons and carnos and i want to try different things alot lol.

 

[Lagast]

Nice, I'm currently working on some lists with infantry block as well. Saurus or TG, not really sure what to take.
I've been trying to buff to unit as much as possible:
The BSB I'm working on has the Standard of chotec to give units -1 to hit in shooting and no stand and shoot if charging (which most of the time wont happen met M4 vs shooting models).
I've also gave him Sword of Swiftness for strike first and Paymaster coin.
The idea here was to get maximum hits/wounds trough with the BSB, so that there is a minimum damage output from the opponent and thus hopefully some saurus fighting back with HW, no spears.
No valuable input for you list here, however:

I have played Blade Of Revered Tzunki several times. It's very agressive, however in the battles I've played I rolled so porely to hit, so it didn't do much. In my case the Ogre Blade would've been better with the multiple wounds. But I'll continue playtesting Tzunki.

I'd give two units skinks scouts instead of vanguard and make 1 unit of 10 without scouts.
I think the scouts is more valueble then 2 extra skinks.

How would you field the Saurus: 6 x 4?

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Nice, I'm currently working on some lists with infantry block as well. Saurus or TG, not really sure what to take.
I've been trying to buff to unit as much as possible:
The BSB I'm working on has the Standard of chotec to give units -1 to hit in shooting and no stand and shoot if charging (which most of the time wont happen met M4 vs shooting models).
I've also gave him Sword of Swiftness for strike first and Paymaster coin.
The idea here was to get maximum hits/wounds trough with the BSB, so that there is a minimum damage output from the opponent and thus hopefully some saurus fighting back with HW, no spears.
No valuable input for you list here, however:

I have played Blade Of Revered Tzunki several times. It's very agressive, however in the battles I've played I rolled so porely to hit, so it didn't do much. In my case the Ogre Blade would've been better with the multiple wounds. But I'll continue playtesting Tzunki.

I'd give two units skinks scouts instead of vanguard and make 1 unit of 10 without scouts.
I think the scouts is more valueble then 2 extra skinks.

How would you field the Saurus: 6 x 4?

I may switch one back to scouts. However I actually do like Vanguard alot for 2 reasons
1- I make less mistakes with it
2- Vanguard+movement usually gets them up to where they'd scout to anyway.

Saurus would either be a 6x4 or an 8x3. Depends on terrain and opponent really.

 

[VonAlex]

i m totally agree Tzunki blade in my opinion is better than ogre, obviously it depends on the target.
in my gaming experience, removing armor and ward gives a huge advantage over multiple wounds...the real problem of our Old Blood is the relatively low Ws.

In all past editions, I've always been a fan of the tough, magic-buffered, scarred veteran-supported lizard tiles, but for Old World I don't know, having lots of javelin skinks gave much more benefits.

for the slann I can't pronounce, I've never used it in ToW...... magic in this edition is very limited for all armies, compared to the past...... luckily the "purple sun" has been removed.To the slan, I prefer a second priest on stegadon with engine of the gods. Doubling the engines you would have cast +1 (a good third level ) and much more "shooting".

Bastiladonte is a must with solar engine i m agree

And after all this chatter.....it always depends on who you fight and how you like to play

 

[Lagast]

I may switch one back to scouts. However I actually do like Vanguard alot for 2 reasons
1- I make less mistakes with it
2- Vanguard+movement usually gets them up to where they'd scout to anyway.

Saurus would either be a 6x4 or an 8x3. Depends on terrain and opponent really.

1. I see, might be usefull for me as well, have lost scouting skinks due to bad deployment... 1 unit scouts is usefull if your opponent makes a mistake and leaves a +12" gap in his deployment zone... (little chance, but you never know)
2. Never really tought about it that way. You can't march when vanguard right? This means if you have turn one, you go max 12" = no or little shooting when having a 24" between troops. However with the current FAQ and scouts counting towards deployment, +1 on the roll for first turn might be lost in several cases.

i m totally agree Tzunki blade in my opinion is better than ogre, obviously it depends on the target.
in my gaming experience, removing armor and ward gives a huge advantage over multiple wounds...the real problem of our Old Blood is the relatively low Ws.

Vs. dwarves, warriors of chaos, empire it is massive. I play Wood Elves a lot, not that massive
In competitive, tournament play, where you tend to have a lote of Behemoths, Ogre Blade can make a difference.
The low WS is an issue, Paymaster coin might be the solution. Rerolls to hit. BUT at cost of the talisman of protection... Maybe you can chip in a Charmed shield for a single WS.

for the slann I can't pronounce, I've never used it in ToW...... magic in this edition is very limited for all armies, compared to the past...... luckily the "purple sun" has been removed.To the slan, I prefer a second priest on stegadon with engine of the gods. Doubling the engines you would have cast +1 (a good third level ) and much more "shooting".
Bastiladonte is a must with solar engine i m agree

Downside is the limited dispell range. 18" vs 24"...
I've seen level 4 Battle magic wizards destroying armies who have no or little magic. Pillar of Fire combo with Fireball is hard.
BUT, as you state, it al depends on how you want to play and vs. who.
There's a huge difference between tournament play en casual.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

2. Never really tought about it that way. You can't march when vanguard right? This means if you have turn one, you go max 12" = no or little shooting when having a 24" between troops. However with the current FAQ and scouts counting towards deployment, +1 on the roll for first turn might be lost in several cases.
.

can't march as part of the Vanguard move, but you can as part of your movement in your first turn. So that's up to 18" outside your deployment in turn 1. With Javelins having move and shoot, that's a 30" threat range from your deployment zone edge, which is usually enough to start hitting something.

And if I am going 2nd, my skinks that vanguard are usually safe from a T1 charge and being blasted away fully and I can be a tad more reactive in my turn than with scouts.

When you scout you have to be 12" away from an enemy model. Often this means 12" outside the deployment zone. With then with a March move in your first turn, gives you effectively a 36" threat range.

Now scouts does allow you to capitalize on your opponent's bad mistakes more, especially bad war machine placement, but I find that to be rare, especially in a competitive environment. People deploy with Scouts in mind and won't afford you much opportunity to take full advantage of it

And then there is the disadvantage scouts have if you go second. Far more vulnerable to charges and enemy shooting. And as you said, you can lose the +1 to go first because of them, so even greater chances of going second (bad faq ruling IMO).

 

[discomute]

And then there is the disadvantage scouts have if you go second. Far more vulnerable to charges and enemy shooting. And as you said, you can lose the +1 to go first because of them, so even greater chances of going second (bad faq ruling IMO).

This is massive imo. And definitely a bad FAQ ruling.

I can't see revered being better than ogre blade against nearly any list but revered is nearly as good and I love the lore so I reckon go for it. Such a shame it wasn't 60!

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

So the large block was interesting in the two games I played. In one game, it slowly was grinding down a steam tank over a few turns. Im just not sure its worth the points I traded off for it to be honest. If they could take a magic banner themselves it would be more interesting double stacking banners.

Solid unit, but just so expensive and slow compared to the rest of the army

 

[Lagast]

So the large block was interesting in the two games I played. In one game, it slowly was grinding down a steam tank over a few turns. Im just not sure its worth the points I traded off for it to be honest. If they could take a magic banner themselves it would be more interesting double stacking banners.

Solid unit, but just so expensive and slow compared to the rest of the army

Couldn't that be useful for competitive play.
Bigger chance of keeping those points?
Or do you think it's more interesting to use other units who deliver more points...

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Couldn't that be useful for competitive play.
Bigger chance of keeping those points?
Or do you think it's more interesting to use other units who deliver more points...

I need to try it in more games. I didn't lose it in either of the games I played at this event, which was a nice way of preserving points. But I also felt like I had less toys on the table than the last event I played, and the stuff I was moving forward and applying pressure with was more vulnerable. Like they could just be ignored while my opponent dealt with other things. Basically its the cost of a Saurus Old Blood on Carnosaur that is doing nothing to score for your army for 3 turns. But it is preserving 20% of your army, so IDK ultimately yet.

If we could have drilled, I think it could work better, because then you could do marching column to keep pace in turn 1.

It does make me wonder about a points denial Royal Host style super block though. Like 46 Saurus, Old Blood, BSB, and 2 more scar vets. 10 wide, 5 rank block. Keep an ethereal slann nearby. Skirmish screen them for shooting with skinks. Throw a totem of prophecy in on the BSB for Fear, Apotheosis on one of the characters to then give the block terror. Just a big old points denial army.

Could do it with Templeguard, Not sure whats more important though- higher WS and stubborn or Spears for Fight in Extra Rank. If playing such a large block that will get charged by multiple units, I think spears might be more important? TG are also just much more expensive Not sure youd have the points left for a proper screen.

 

[Lagast]

Great feedback.

Exactly what I was thinking about, less units to push/play with.
If I reflect on games I played vs large blocks of infantry, most of the time I just ignored those units.
Of if able dual charged with units that bring enough combat resolution, or you'll get tuck.

I like the idea of a huge block, seems fun, but again. Initiative 1 for your infantry. The heroes/lords need to do their thing.
I do think it just remains fun. large blocks like that leave little open for other units.