TOW Lizard 2000pt

[VonAlex]

Hi, i did a Lizard list of 2000pt what u think about it?

in my opinion It is versatile and has good shooting power in both phase...magic, well maybe not that good as has a wizzard lv4 but bound spell + solar machine + engine of god gave a lot of attacks and shooting.

my only doubt is not having the big tiles of lizards, which are so dear to me AHAHAH

And Skink Skirmishers maybe is better do 5 units X10 than 4
Kroxi dont have ancient campion for not fall in challenge trap

++ Personaggi [917 p.ti] ++
Saurus Oldblood [407 p.ti]
(Hand weapon, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Shield, General, Carnosaur, Lama Of Revered Tzunki, Talismano Di Protezione)

Skink Priest [315 p.ti]
(Hand weapon, Light armour (Calloused hide), Ancient Stegadon [Giant bow + Engine of the Gods], Elementalism)

Saurus Scar-Veteran [195 p.ti]
(Additional hand weapon, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [Stendardo da Guerra], On foot, Pozione Della Resistenza, Anello Di Rubino Della Rovina)

++ Truppa [526 p.ti] ++
17 Saurus Warriors [276 p.ti]
(Thrusting spears, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Spawn Leader (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)

13 Skink Skirmishers [65 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

13 Skink Skirmishers [65 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

++ Speciali [327 p.ti] ++
3 Kroxigors [147 p.ti]
(Great weapons, Heavy armour (Scaly skin))

Bastiladon [180 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Thunderous bludgeon, Solar Engine, Fourth Skink crew member)

++ Rare [230 p.ti] ++
Ancient Stegadon [230 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Great horns, Giant blowpipes)

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Creato con "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

 

[discomute]

It's decent enough. If you move to units of 10 skinks can you afford a 4th krox so you don't have to take a panic when one dies? L7 on 3 dice isn't that bad I guess

Also I'd favour battle on the stegadon, so you can take hammerhands. Given you want that thing in combat asap it's a great spell.

 

[VonAlex]

thx for the check

i tryed a similast army list on last sunday, it was without Scar-Vet and i plus i had 5 cold blood rider

was an hard game against a High elf with 2 star dragons damn too thick for lizard.......
skink killed 1 ice phoenix and 1 fire too + 5 from silver helms and 10 hellirion marauders and leave with 1 life point the flying charriot ( i forgot the name )
Dragons was injured

Saurus was hit very bad from one dragon.....no way to survive...the same happen to the old blood and ancient stegadon and cold blood rider.

magic and shoot was very efficent, i did very bad rool dice on close combat

 

[Kalisto]

Why not 2 engine of gods? So at least your priest get +1 to cast. He need also really lore familiar to be effective so he can choose which spells he want.
About skinks....4 x 12 are ok however you have NO scouts and you need one unit of them.
I am not a fan of saurus scarwith ruby of ring. Often you are going to march so cannot use it anyway...a armour save/ward save would be better. Armour of steel (3+ armour save) or the Iron armour that give unmodified 5+ is the best option, both with great weapon since you don't need the shield.

For less points a skink hero on terradon is much better (and have 3 wounds) to fire the ring and avoid to be dispelled.
Toughness potion on him is ok...but you can use it only in your turn. So i prefer a ward save instead. Glyph necklace give also magic resistance 2 which is very good if you have only a level 2 caster to dispel.

I don't like really a lot of kroxigor either...they are ok but I'd prefer to play 3 terradons instead and use those 50 points in something else I wrote up here.

 

[Lagast]

thx for the check

i tryed a similast army list on last sunday, it was without Scar-Vet and i plus i had 5 cold blood rider

was an hard game against a High elf with 2 star dragons damn too thick for lizard.......
skink killed 1 ice phoenix and 1 fire too + 5 from silver helms and 10 hellirion marauders and leave with 1 life point the flying charriot ( i forgot the name )
Dragons was injured

2 Star Dragons seem pretty hard list. Was this Casual game? I'd never play 2 dragons then.

However I like the 5 cold blood riders, they have more damage output than 1 scar-vet I think.
The stupidity is what makes them hard to play. What made you change them to the Scar-vet?

I agree with Kalisto. Having scouts on skinks is very good. I'd even play 2 units of scous when fielding 4 units of skinks.
Really adds to board control or screening. Put soms krox behind.

I'd definitely go for a second enige of the gods. The pro's for your list are huge. +1 to cast, more potential damge...

 

[discomute]

Why not 2 engine of gods? So at least your priest get +1 to cast. He need also really lore familiar to be effective so he can choose which spells he want.
About skinks....4 x 12 are ok however you have NO scouts and you need one unit of them.
I am not a fan of saurus scarwith ruby of ring. Often you are going to march so cannot use it anyway...a armour save/ward save would be better. Armour of steel (3+ armour save) or the Iron armour that give unmodified 5+ is the best option, both with great weapon since you don't need the shield.

For less points a skink hero on terradon is much better (and have 3 wounds) to fire the ring and avoid to be dispelled.
Toughness potion on him is ok...but you can use it only in your turn. So i prefer a ward save instead. Glyph necklace give also magic resistance 2 which is very good if you have only a level 2 caster to dispel.

I don't like really a lot of kroxigor either...they are ok but I'd prefer to play 3 terradons instead and use those 50 points in something else I wrote up here.

Sorry to side track but I'm fascinated on your recommendation of terradons. Their drop rocks is decent but no where near good enough for the cost. Then what do you have? Fast Skirmishers that aren't very good in combat? How do you use them?

 

[Jez Doh]

Dragons are always tough matchups for lizards unfortunately.

 

[Kalisto]

Sorry to side track but I'm fascinated on your recommendation of terradons. Their drop rocks is decent but no where near good enough for the cost. Then what do you have? Fast Skirmishers that aren't very good in combat? How do you use them?

I don't use them so often however I don't think they are automatically so bad. 3D3 autohit S4 can easily a skirmish or a fast cavalry unit that is quite disturbing. Often you can use them to protect your skinks to be charged of them by menacing this. Also you can attack alone casters and so on. OFten their threat is also overstimated by the other player that play in consequence.
They can also manage to block a siege machine (and hope kill, but not always if you are unlucky) for some rounds.
Then you can march block and have 3 poison hits with range 32. Not game changing but can still be something against a lot of beasts around.

Against other fliers terradons are quite good since they can hit and shoot and don't need to charge, against marauders, dark elves cavalry the same...all those units cost more or less the same and have just an harassment purpose.

Of course I think they are overpriced as nearly everything else we have, but which are alternatives? Ripperdactyls are much better but you need at least 4 (or with a hero inside with magic resistance 2)

 

[VonAlex]

Hallo, i did a couple of try, i m sorry for the delay in responding.
I used your advice and I can tell you that:
_ The terradons, always against the elves, lasted very little, "the sisters" made a mess of them...
_ The double machine of the gods has proven to be formidable, especially if kept out of the range of the opposing wizard (and no small amount of luck with the dice); the volume of fire is much lower than the blowpipes but by hitting automatically many attacks were successful.
_ Kroxigor, increasing the quantity from 3 to 4 was very useful
_ I tried again to use the coldblooded cavalry, in the first game, unfortunately having a slow army I was not able to support it properly and it was eliminated. In the second game instead I replaced it by making changes to the list.
_ Oldblood Saurus on carnosaur I used it as a character hunter and it gave great results
_ Saurus with Scarvet bsb abosrbed a big amount of damage and won a fight against a dragon that felt back, resolution pont was enough higher.
_ i didn t use as well the scout, but was against an "enemy" without warmachine, they keep a object for all game.

As always i fight against two dragons, so was hard but this time double time one of two dragon fall without lost my general.

On this sunday i will test the following list on a lil challeng between frends, this time againt other faction so i will see how its work

++ Personaggi [864 p.ti] ++
Saurus Oldblood [407 p.ti]
(Hand weapon, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Shield, General, Carnosaur, Talismano Di Protezione, Lama Of Revered Tzunki)

Skink Priest [315 p.ti]
(Hand weapon, Light armour (Calloused hide), Ancient Stegadon [Engine of the Gods], Battle Magic)

Saurus Scar-Veteran [142 p.ti]
(Hand weapon, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Shield, Battle Standard Bearer [Stendardo da Guerra], On foot)

++ Truppa [502 p.ti] ++
19 Saurus Warriors [287 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Spawn Leader (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)

11 Skink Skirmishers [65 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides), Scouts)

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

++ Speciali [376 p.ti] ++
4 Kroxigors [196 p.ti]
(Great weapons, Heavy armour (Scaly skin))

Bastiladon [180 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Thunderous bludgeon, Solar Engine, Fourth Skink crew member)

++ Rare [255 p.ti] ++
Ancient Stegadon [255 p.ti]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Great horns, Engine of the Gods)

___________________

 

[Kalisto]

You must improve skink priest on Stegadon to level 2… either it’s useless. 4 skinks units are good but 3 are also ok, either reduce the number of saurus but improve that priest at level 2. So you get a +3 to cast

 

[VonAlex]

You must improve skink priest on Stegadon to level 2… either it’s useless. 4 skinks units are good but 3 are also ok, either reduce the number of saurus but improve that priest at level 2. So you get a +3 to cast

the Problem is the point i m on line of the minimal level for infantery, improve the level of skink priest mean 1 less krokigor o remove some magical item from Scarvet or oldblood

 

[Lagast]

the Problem is the point i m on line of the minimal level for infantery, improve the level of skink priest mean 1 less krokigor o remove some magical item from Scarvet or oldblood

I've been tweeking my list and working on 3 units of 12 skinks instead of 4 of 10 skinks. + I gave my Saurus warriors shieldwall upgrade and thrusting spears. This makes them in competition a less interesting unit to charge. My feeling is that they don't have much to offer otherwise. Their low I makes them an easy target. The extra rank (if charged) can be a plus. I know a lot of persons prefer the Obsidian blade hand weapons, but what use is the AP-1 if you strike second and can't hit back because of casualties.

 

[VonAlex]

I had made the same reasoning too, I evaluated the spears, but in the end I preferred to have one Saurus in plus and a lil javelin more.
Inserting the scarred veteran I can respond with some attacks and resolutions among the ranks the banners start with a 5+
AP-1 is a good plus with infantery troops too and 6 model for ranks gave me a good amount attacks too.

 

[Kalisto]

Sorry didn't noticed you had 502 points in core. Well the point with 2 stegadons with engine of gods is to give the +1 to cast. But it only works when you have two stegadons.
Then better to play ring of fire or give level 2 instead of just use that bonus with a level 1 since you are even worse at dispel. I'll probably opt to -1 kroxigor and a better save or better weapon for your scarvet hero

 

[discomute]

I do like spears as we always strike last it's often a difference in, say 4 attacks going back at -1 or 10 attacks going back with no AP. Shield wall is fantastic against cavalry and chariots but often doesn't get used against the others. I rarely take it.

I don't have two stegadon models so I haven't been able to play test duel engines but I think the skink priest's best use as a caster is to dispel "in play" spells (vortexes and hexes which can be devastating) and the engine doesn't help with that. I would absolutely go level 2 wizard before getting two engines for this reason alone.

Where to get the +30 points from? That's very tough. Your options are

- downgrade old blood to scar vet (but you need that sword against dragons)
- one less Kroxigor (really reduces the effectiveness of the unit)
- downgrade an engine of the gods and lose fourth member of your bastiladon (what I'd lean towards)
- drop the bastiladon all together (additional points can go into characters, maybe an extra Saurus or two, add scout or vanguard to an existing unit)

I'd probably lean towards the bottom 2, and if you're in a dragon heavy meta #1 is the worst.

 

[VonAlex]

Good morning
The list worked well, the skinks, the stegodons with god machine and the bastiladon with solar machine made the difference.
thanks for your advice, I managed to get third in this mini tournament of 15 people......
I faced Ogres - victory, beastmen - defeat, high elves - victory

paradoxically my general but especially the carnosaurus....I was very unlucky he almost never inflicted wounds , the troop of saurians and the kroxigors had low performances.

The kroxigors were lucky enough to resist against a star dragon with prince + ogre sword for 2 turns I must say that the triple 1 discipline test helped a lot.

I think it could be a good idea to equip the Oldblood Saur with the Ogre sword, remove the carnosaurus and with some adjustments add the cavalry where to insert it.