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TOW Updated thoughts on the Slann

Magic

  • High

    Votes: 2 14.3%

  • Elementalism

    Votes: 3 21.4%

  • Necro

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Battle

    Votes: 7 50.0%

  • Illusion

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • Total voters
    14
Hello everyone, coming from the fifth edition of Lizards, where Slaan was the strongest wizard of all. It is still so? How to play? With what objects? With what tactics?
 
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Manowar83 said:
Ciao a tutti, provengo dalla quinta edizione di Lizards, dove Slaan era il mago più forte di tutti. È ancora così? Come si gioca? Con quali oggetti? Con quali tattiche?
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This is an English only forum.
 
Manowar83 said:
Hello everyone, coming from the fifth edition of Lizards, where Slaan was the strongest wizard of all. It is still so? How to play? With what objects? With what tactics?
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He REALLY isn't anymore. He is very expensive but has no bonusses to casting. You can make him Ethereal and make him even more expensive,, but that does not give you much. A standard Imperial Wizard costing like 190 points is stronger than our Slann for the points, if i had the option to take one i would.

I think the best wizards in the game are currently Necromancers. Lvl 4, cheap at like 180 points, and you can get them to +6 or even +7 to cast with Mortis Engines and they revive like 200 points of models per turn.
 
airjamy said:
He REALLY isn't anymore. He is very expensive but has no bonusses to casting. You can make him Ethereal and make him even more expensive,, but that does not give you much. A standard Imperial Wizard costing like 190 points is stronger than our Slann for the points, if i had the option to take one i would.

I think the best wizards in the game are currently Necromancers. Lvl 4, cheap at like 180 points, and you can get them to +6 or even +7 to cast with Mortis Engines and they revive like 200 points of models per turn.
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Slann + Ethereal = 345pts

if i had the option to take one i would:
lv4 Necromancer + Mortis Engine = 355pts
lv4 Archmage + Griffon = 315pts + 5+regen = 335pts
lv4 Daemon Prince + fly = 316pts
lv4 orc wizard + wyvern = 300pts
lv4 empire wiz + imperial griffon = 320pts
or
lv4 mage x 2
 
They may not be the dominant force they once were though. It felt as though they used to be a full step above almost every other wizard, and could;
control the dice pools pretty well,
Almost perfectly covered from miscasts,
Bunkered in arguably some of the best melee infantry,
Greatest spell range,

Now they are just average/slightly above average in most areas.
 
skycat said:
Slann + Ethereal = 345pts

if i had the option to take one i would:
lv4 Necromancer + Mortis Engine = 355pts
lv4 Archmage + Griffon = 315pts + 5+regen = 335pts
lv4 Daemon Prince + fly = 316pts
lv4 orc wizard + wyvern = 300pts
lv4 empire wiz + imperial griffon = 320pts
or
lv4 mage x 2
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Exactly. This shows pretty well how poor our guy is,, the comparison with the Daemon Prince is pretty apt. XD
 
discomute said:
Great response and a few notes
a) the magic and my rating were about the Slann picking a lore. A lot your ratings (e.g. oaken Sheild) were based on a priest and stegasaurus. Fair enough but not what I wrote for.
b) I have to raise an eyebrow at a few of your ratings and wonder how much TOW you've played. Oaken Shield can't be cast into combat and only in your turn before anything happens - so you will get the ward save on the turn you charge and that's IF it doesn't get dispelled and since you're level 2 and far enough forward to charge an enemy it's hard to imagine being outside of their level 4's 24 inch range that often.

None moreso than illusion. How many dragon charges have you prevented? Now I want to stress this is a legitimate question. I'm not trying to argue. I am really curious as I'd love to be wrong. When I ask this it sounds like I'm being a snide jerk but it's a real question. I'm interested in stats!! I've only played one dragon so I don't know. Yes I understand how vortexes work but they are cast after your movement. You need to be 25 inches from their caster. And it has a range of 9"!! So it's cast minimum of 16" from their caster... Where have they positioned their dragon and caster so you can block the LOS of the dragon and still manage to be outside of dispel range?

And Miasmic Mirage is even worse because it's cast before movement. Who is leaving their dragon within 15 inches of your caster AND not in combat?? How often does that happen. Not to mention you need to roll 7, then get your Slann out of dispell range of their wizard lest they dispel it on a 7. I would genuinely like to know how often you've played against dragons and what the ratio is of being able to stop them with these spells

Like I said originally - add 6 inches to each of those spells and they might do what you want them to.

Because I've played one dragon and didn't run illusion. So it's all theoretical to me! (I note we agree on Necro which is where most of my experience is)

But I have played enough I don't think Vortex spells are as very good (still decent) because to keep them in play you need to deprive yourself of the ability to dispel their magic. And they tend to have short ranges.

PS. No I haven't played terrabombing list. After eating Bretonnian charges last game I might boost earthen Ramparts' score haha. In addition to my complaints about vortexes - Elemental Spirit is a small template that goes in a random direction so you can't rely on it to hit anything or disrupt anything. I am enjoying playing with conveyance since writing this list I might have underrated then which you've picked up on. Spectral doppleganger I think works with lessor swords too like biting blade or sword of might. Ethereal Slann are really good, crash into a flank and they can break units apart. Which brings me to my last point....

Hammerhands only good on a skink you say? Check out my last battle report.... An ethereal Slann with hammerhands charged and destroyed a unit of Pegasus knights solo over 3 combat rounds. Glory to the old ones!!
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Reread this, and you think Oaken Shield cannot be cast in close combat? It is a Self spell, so you actually can, makes it a lot better still. Useless on the Slann of course, but strong on Priests.
 
airjamy said:
Reread this, and you think Oaken Shield cannot be cast in close combat? It is a Self spell, so you actually can, makes it a lot better still. Useless on the Slann of course, but strong on Priests.
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Good call! I did not know that, you can never target a unit in combat unless the spell says otherwise so that's what I had thought. But you're right on that, thanks
 
airjamy said:
Reread this, and you think Oaken Shield cannot be cast in close combat? It is a Self spell, so you actually can, makes it a lot better still. Useless on the Slann of course, but strong on Priests.
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Battle Magic is easily my first lore choice for a skink priest.
 
PowerSeries said:
https://tow.whfb.app/faq#if-a-unit-...le-moves-over-a-magical-vortex-that-counts-as

If a unit with the Fly (X) special rule moves over a magical vortex that counts as dangerous terrain, is it affected by it?


Yes. Magical vortexes are considered tall enough to affect even models that are flying high above the battlefield.


Since the column of crystal is tall enough to affect flyers, I wouldn't say a dragon can charge over it.
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A column of crystal is impassable terrain per it's spell text. Fly specifically says you can move over impassable terrain with it as long as you do not end in it, so it definitely does not stop movement from flying models. The whole point is that it blocks line of sight, so you still stop the charge, which is why the spell is still good, especially if you can cast it outside of enemy dispell range, which is pretty doable.
 
airjamy said:
A column of crystal is impassable terrain per it's spell text. Fly specifically says you can move over impassable terrain with it as long as you do not end in it, so it definitely does not stop movement from flying models. The whole point is that it blocks line of sight, so you still stop the charge, which is why the spell is still good, especially if you can cast it outside of enemy dispell range, which is pretty doable.
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Actually I disagree with this based on the FAQ. It says vortexes are tall enough to effect models that fly. I think that's that... And suddenly dragons are slightly more manageable
 
discomute said:
Actually I disagree with this based on the FAQ. It says vortexes are tall enough to effect models that fly. I think that's that... And suddenly dragons are slightly more manageable
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I dissagree on that. The FAQ says this:

Q: If a unit with the Fly (X) special rule moves over a magical vortex that counts as dangerous terrain, is it affected by it? A: Yes. Magical vortexes are considered tall enough to affect even models that are flying high above the battlefield.

This is about Dangerous terrain. It is not that the Column is Dangerous terrain, it is Impassable terrain, as per the Column of Crystal spell text:

Effect: Remains in Play. Place a large (5") blast template so
that its central hole is within 9" of the caster. Whilst in play,
the template does not move and is treated as impassable
terrain over which no line of sight can be drawn.

These are the Fly rules. Pretty clearly they state you cannot end in Impassable terrain, which makes it very clear that they intend for you to be able to fly over Impassable terrain.

Fly (X)
Many creatures of the Warhammer world can
fly, held aloft either by mighty pinions or by
means of magic, soaring from one side of the
battlefield to the other.
A model with this special rule can Fly.
Models that can Fly can choose either to
move normally on the ground (using their
Movement characteristic), or to move by
flying. How many inches a model can Fly
varies from model to model, and will be
shown in brackets after the name of this
special rule (shown here as ‘X’). Models
that choose to move by flying:
• May move as normal (i.e., they may
charge, march and manoeuvre as if
moving on the ground), except that
they are able to pass freely above other
models, units and terrain features
without any penalty, and they can
march whilst within 8" of an enemy
unit without first having to make a
Leadership test.
• May end their movement in terrain,
but will suffer its effects if they do. They
cannot end their movement ‘on top’ of
impassable terrain or another unit, or
within 1" of an enemy unit.
Models that can Fly must begin and end
all of their movement on the ground. A
character with this special rule cannot
join a unit without this special rule, and
vice versa.

But still, Illusion is fine if your local meta has a LOT of 600 point dragons, because blocking a pivotal charge against a dragon is just worth so much even if you are only blocking its LOS. My local meta is switching over to more MSU/avoidance lists at the moment, so i am kinda going off the Slann Illusion train again and going harder on Battle Magic and Elementalism.
 
airjamy said:
Magical vortexes are considered tall enough to affect even models that are flying high above the battlefield.

.
Click to expand...

Magical vortexes are considered tall enough to affect even models that are flying high above the battlefield

Seems clear to me
 
discomute said:
Magical vortexes are considered tall enough to affect even models that are flying high above the battlefield

Seems clear to me
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Yeah well,, they effect them, but there is another rule that mitigates that effect. Without Fly they definitely cannot move over them, but with Fly, it doesn't. It is all very clear and pretty RAW imho.
 
airjamy said:
Yeah well,, they effect them, but there is another rule that mitigates that effect. Without Fly they definitely cannot move over them, but with Fly, it doesn't. It is all very clear and pretty RAW imho.
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It's clear at this point the TOW guys are pretty bad at writing clear rules. Like, they just put a FAQ about impact hits only effecting the unit you've charged... Okay but what about lance bonuses? Initiative bonuses?

All your RAW for the rule book is of course correct but I just can't see why you'd interpret the comment "Magical vortexes are considered tall enough to affect even models that are flying high above the battlefield" would only be in reference to magical vortexes that are dangerous terrain. The FAQ overwrites the RAW and not the other way around.

I absolutely respect people's opinions because... Well because the TOW guys can't seem to make a clear set of rules. But unlike other debates I've had in here (like chief poison on the stegadon, chief firing stegadon, casting magic missile and a vortex in the shooting phase) I really just can't see your point of view. It says clearly that "Magical vortexes are considered tall enough to affect even models that are flying high above the battlefield" so that's that. Whatever the effect the magical vortex has, it is tall enough to affect even models that are flying high.

At this point I guess we aren't convincing each other so we can agree to disagree.
 
- Q - said:
Worse than in other Games Workshop games?
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I kinda feel like they went for a more old school style of formatting and writing the rules that is really kinda biting them in the but now. I feel like they really captured the feeling of reading the 8th books back in the day, but because of that the game lacks clarity. I mean if you take a look at how the Fly rules are formulated in 40K, it is just a lot more, staccato, straight to the point and streamlined. I feel like wargamers nowadays are just used to better rules writing and the lack of perceived clarity leads to annoying discussions more than it did back in the day and more than it does for other GW games.

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