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TOW Lizardmen Legacy List Changes with 9APR24 update

Gothmog Lord of Balrogs
Temple Guard

Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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So the FAQs and errata just dropped, and there are some minor changes in the legacy lists too. BUT unlike the FAQs, there is no color code to indicate this, so here is what I notice going over the copy I have printed since release and the update today

https://www.warhammer-community.com/the-old-world-downloads/

Page 1, 2- none
Page 3- Slann troop type changed to monstrous creature and. Slann also gained Close Order.
Page 4- Note removed for skink priest about calloused hide not affecting casting. This is because this is now answered in the main FAQ. It still doesn't affect it, just now a core rule.
Skink Chief no longer grants poison to its mount.
Page 5, 6- none
Page 7- Cameleon skinks, Patrol Leader now has strength 3 instead of 4.
Page 8-19- none
Page 20- Note added to arcane vassal. You cannot channel spells with a range of "self"
Page 21- Monsoon range fixed, central hole now has to be within 15"

And then while not a change to out book, the main rules FAQ has a change that means the Bastiladon no longer gets +1 CR, despite having close order

Comment if I missed anything and I'll add it up here
 
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They didn't fix the stegadon bow in the lizardman book, but they did add a general FAQ:

Q: Some chariots are equipped with large scale missile weapons such as bolt throwers. Who shoots such weapons; the crew, the beasts that draw the chariot, or the chariot itself ?
A: Missile weapons mounted on chariots (or howdahs) are shot by the crew, using their Ballistic Skill.​

This broke things pretty badly. There is no "once per turn" restriction on the giant bow. So RAW, this means the crew can fire the bow 5 times per turn. It also means you can stand and shoot with the giant bow.

Also RAW, it is now clear that a character cannot fire it...although I am sure those that want to claim the "character joins the crew" fluff in the Additional Wounds section overrides the rule that says the Character and Crew are different things and cannot use each other's weapons will surely continue to do so.
 
RipperDerek said:
Also RAW, it is now clear that a character cannot fire it...although I am sure those that want to claim the "character joins the crew" fluff in the Additional Wounds section completely overrides the rule that says the Character and Crew are different things and cannot use each other's weapons will surely continue to do so.
Click to expand...

It's specified later in the FAQ. You can't use the BS of a character to shoot a war machine.
 
That's a war machine, the bow on the Stegadon is not a war machine. But the rules do already cover it.
 
Arcane Vassal and 'self' spell change is a major bummer. Makes many spells and lores a lot worse for the Slann.

Great that they're updating the legacy factions though. Gone but not forgotten.
 
Honestly, you've missed what is (in my opinion) the biggest one:

Page 3- Slann gained Close Order, because they are now considered a monster

This has massive, massive implications for list-building. Previously, you could take a slann and still have your regular unit of Saurus protect him because he was monstrous infantry and couldn't be targeted in close proximity to them.

NOW, he can be shot at by everything and anything on the table, regardless of how close he is. This essentially gives only two viable options: Higher state of mind (for ethereal protection from shooting) OR mandatory Temple Guard to shield him from those attacks.

I don't think it's really sunk in yet how much of a massive nerf this is to the Slann, an already pretty mediocre caster :/
 
You're right, that is a very big change. I am not at all sure what all the ramifications are. He has unit strength 5 now? Can disrupt ranks? Gets +1 combat rez from Close Order? Is Lumbering? Affected by Monster Slayer? Um...a lot of stuff.
 
Herpin_Along said:
Honestly, you've missed what is (in my opinion) the biggest one:

Page 3- Slann gained Close Order, because they are now considered a monster

This has massive, massive implications for list-building. Previously, you could take a slann and still have your regular unit of Saurus protect him because he was monstrous infantry and couldn't be targeted in close proximity to them.

NOW, he can be shot at by everything and anything on the table, regardless of how close he is. This essentially gives only two viable options: Higher state of mind (for ethereal protection from shooting) OR mandatory Temple Guard to shield him from those attacks.

I don't think it's really sunk in yet how much of a massive nerf this is to the Slann, an already pretty mediocre caster :/
Click to expand...

I did miss that.

That's absolute crap, especially since we have no other access to level 3 or 4 mages.

Completely kills the lists I've been working on.

It reallt don't want to pay a TG tax.
 
Can't even heal the Slann with Apotheosis anymore. Oh man.

I'm pretty bummed over the changes to our magic with Slann/Arcane Vassal. Magic was my favourite part of the game and our army.

Back to the drawing board.
 
Gothmog Lord of Balrogs said:
I did miss that.

That's absolute crap, especially since we have no other access to level 3 or 4 mages.

Completely kills the lists I've been working on.

It reallt don't want to pay a TG tax.
Click to expand...

my thinking on this has evolved over the day to basically two forks in list-building.

You have three options for core: saurus, skinks, and TG. In lists 2k and under, you can basically pick two. Saurus are mandatory, so you either go saurus + TG (and maybe one or two skinks if you’ll can squeeze in) and a regular magic-focused slann, or you go saurus + skink with an ethereal battle-toad build. Otherwise the slann will just die too fast I think.
 
Herpin_Along said:
my thinking on this has evolved over the day to basically two forks in list-building.

You have three options for core: saurus, skinks, and TG. In lists 2k and under, you can basically pick two. Saurus are mandatory, so you either go saurus + TG (and maybe one or two skinks if you’ll can squeeze in) and a regular magic-focused slann, or you go saurus + skink with an ethereal battle-toad build. Otherwise the slann will just die too fast I think.
Click to expand...

What really stinks is HSOM costs so much that if you take it, you can no longer do a Old Blood and BSB Skink Chief on Steggo. You are just too points tight at 2k.

It really upsetting because our monsters are also our warmachines, so being unable to take them in the Lords & Heroes really cuts down on what we have and puts more pressure on limited options elsewhere. And then several of our specials require a skink hero, so if you lose the Steg Chief on steg and now have him on foot or another mount, you have to have a plan of what to do with a skink them.

And Skink Priest on steg is right out if taking Slann and COB
 
The clarification of Drilled is arguably a buff to Cold One Riders (depending on how your community played it before). Also Monsoon going to 15" could be a buff if your group was in camp 12" before.

Yeah yeah, I know I'm reaching...
 
RipperDerek said:
The clarification of Drilled is arguably a buff to Cold One Riders (depending on how your community played it before). Also Monsoon going to 15" could be a buff if your group was in camp 12" before.

Yeah yeah, I know I'm reaching...
Click to expand...

While drilled is good for them, arguably worse overall for us. Benefits other factions far more than us.
 
That is a huge nerf for Slann. They now become difficult to take in casual games. You will be very reliant on your temple guard.... Look out sir works on bows right?

Edit it makes ethereal more interesting. For casual games. If you're tournament-ing... You can no longer consider a slann
 
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