• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

Tutorial The Old World Lizardmen Army PDF is out and free

RipperDerek said:
In exploring my rules question above, I found another Oldblood build that competes with the 2 big ones. And actually, I think it's probably better.
  • 27.366 - Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur - Dragon Slaying Sword, Sword of Might, Shield, Talisman of Protection
Because the Sword of Might is an extremely common magic item, you can take it along with the Dragon Slaying Sword. Then you can use the sword of might against non-monsters. This is relevant because most of the non-monsters are T4 with some amount of armor. The result is the first unit in my spreadsheet that wins every battle I simulated, although not always by large margins...

Even though the efficiency score is slightly less than the ogre blade, that is mostly because the ogre blade adds a lot of extra wounds against monstrous infantry and cavalry. This build is still fine against those, it just doesn't win by as large a margin. But it is WAY better against dragons and monsters, which are much bigger threats. So, my opinion is that this build is better.

Also yes, this build does score significantly better than either the DSS or the Sword of Might by themselves...at least according to my spreadsheet.
Click to expand...
Interesting but probability against dragons are still low. I mean 5 attacks hitting on 4+ in best case, maybe 5+ then you need a 6. And you don't negate ward saves...

Then I'll probably prefer Revered Tzunki Blade that is more allround effectively against everything and negate both armour and ward saves (even without 6s). Ogre blade is strong but useless against dragons with good armour+saves.

The first is luck based, the second on strategy. Probably you cannot kill a dragon alone but you can kill a dragon with some support as a stegadon charging. The first option barely is ok against heavy cavalry. The second option slay them. Probably both option have to ben tried =)

About other monsters...carno eat them, so the problem are dragons with T6 and ward saves.
 
discomute said:
Absolutely characters need to be maxed, it's a shame the slann is 50 points overpriced, it's very hard to fit it in. Although I am trying because I like them, once I've got a Slann, old blood on carno and chief on stegadon there is only about 110 left over for items...

I think if I try for a slann-less list (I don't have the models) I would probably ignore the skink priest and take a troglodon for the dispels and just focus on 3 of the COB and SCS and really get whatever magic items you want.
Click to expand...

Also remember you can just take dispel scrolls on all your champs. 20 point item, and you've pulled if out of the characters slot. Saurus, Templeguard and Cold Ones all have this option.
 
Gothmog Lord of Balrogs said:
Also remember you can just take dispel scrolls on all your champs. 20 point item, and you've pulled if out of the characters slot. Saurus, Templeguard and Cold Ones all have this option.
Click to expand...

? Dispel Scroll says "Single use. A Wizard may use this scroll when attempting a Wizardly dispel." Champions aren't wizards and can't use them, to my knowledge.

Kalisto said:
Interesting but probability against dragons are still low. I mean 5 attacks hitting on 4+ in best case, maybe 5+ then you need a 6. And you don't negate ward saves...
Click to expand...

This was all accounted for in the simulation. It still killed the dragons before the oldblood died.
 
Kalisto said:
Interesting but probability against dragons are still low. I mean 5 attacks hitting on 4+ in best case, maybe 5+ then you need a 6. And you don't negate ward saves...
Click to expand...

Why do you need a 6?

5 attacks hitting on a 4+ (it can never be 5+)
2.5 attacks wounding on a 5+ (st 5 vs t6)
83% chance of getting a wound through, then need to dodge a likely ward of 5+

So I'd say an old blood has a 50/50 chance of killing a dragon outright.

edit just did maths its 56%
 
The dragon killing effect only happens on a to-wound roll of a 6. But yes, if you get 3 hits you're close to 50/50 to land a killing blow (meaning to roll a 6). Although they do still get a ward save, if they have one.
 
RipperDerek said:
The dragon killing effect only happens on a to-wound roll of a 6. But yes, if you get 3 hits you're close to 50/50 to land a killing blow (meaning to roll a 6). Although they do still get a ward save, if they have one.
Click to expand...

Right so my maths are off, I guess if the wound roll was a 5 or 6 then needing a six would be half that then, so around 28%.'

Also - are they carrying a monster slaying sword? Everyone has more initiative than us..
 
Gothmog Lord of Balrogs said:
Also remember you can just take dispel scrolls on all your champs. 20 point item, and you've pulled if out of the characters slot. Saurus, Templeguard and Cold Ones all have this option.
Click to expand...
Wrong, unfortunately only wizard can take arcane items
 
discomute said:
Why do you need a 6?

5 attacks hitting on a 4+ (it can never be 5+)
2.5 attacks wounding on a 5+ (st 5 vs t6)
83% chance of getting a wound through, then need to dodge a likely ward of 5+

So I'd say an old blood has a 50/50 chance of killing a dragon outright.

edit just did maths its 56%
Click to expand...
Badazzling helm…you are going to encounter dragons lord with it or another item giving -1 to hit.
Everyone have at least WS 6 or 7

If the enemy have WS 7 (many has it) and an item for -1 to hit then your carnosaur hit at 6+… so he cannot help you a lot either.

If they have a dragon slayer sword they have the same chance to kill you before you kill them due the low initiative generally you have a low probability to kill them (ok maybe in two rounds but not sure you can afford 2 rounds of attacks from a dragonlord).

With dragon slayer sword your model is quite bad against each other thing, that’s reason I prefer revered tzunki or ogre blade. It may be an option to have a sword of might aside.
 
Kalisto said:
Badazzling helm…you are going to encounter dragons lord with it or another item giving -1 to hit.
Everyone have at least WS 6 or 7

If the enemy have WS 7 (many has it) and an item for -1 to hit then your carnosaur hit at 6+… so he cannot help you a lot either.

If they have a dragon slayer sword they have the same chance to kill you before you kill them due the low initiative generally you have a low probability to kill them (ok maybe in two rounds but not sure you can afford 2 rounds of attacks from a dragonlord).

With dragon slayer sword your model is quite bad against each other thing, that’s reason I prefer revered tzunki or ogre blade. It may be an option to have a sword of might aside.
Click to expand...
Yep I think I agree with you. But the (quite clever) option of monster slayer with sword of might is tempting. You can still fit an amulet of protection in with that.
 
I just check that the chaos lord may play a sword with +2S +D3 attacks and always strike first for 75 points... so even without -1 to hit it's cruel.

Its just my impression or lizard got really BAD magical items?
 
Not sure about that, we have a few good ones, perhaps no great ones unless you count becalming contagion. I guess I haven't studied the other books. But glpyh necklace and the aura are okay and blade of revered Tzunki is good.

In general I don't think we can complain about power level, although I do feel there is quite a disparity in our troops which I find frustrating. If I had to guess at overall power levels based off overall army composition (in which dragons are a part but not everything) I'd say

S
Chaos Dwarfs

A
Chaos Warriors
Beastmen
Orcs and Goblins
Dwarves
Bretonnia

A or B
Dark Elves

B
Vampires
Ogres
Daemons
Wood Elves
High elves
Lizardmen
Tomb Kings

B or C
Skaven

C
Empire
 
discomute said:
Not sure about that, we have a few good ones, perhaps no great ones unless you count becalming contagion. I guess I haven't studied the other books. But glpyh necklace and the aura are okay and blade of revered Tzunki is good.

In general I don't think we can complain about power level, although I do feel there is quite a disparity in our troops which I find frustrating. If I had to guess at overall power levels based off overall army composition (in which dragons are a part but not everything) I'd say

S
Chaos Dwarfs

A
Chaos Warriors
Beastmen
Orcs and Goblins
Dwarves
Bretonnia

A or B
Dark Elves

B
Vampires
Ogres
Daemons
Wood Elves
High elves
Lizardmen
Tomb Kings

B or C
Skaven

C
Empire
Click to expand...

Do you have the source? B isn’t so good imho. You have 7 armies better than you and only 2 worse
 
Absolute guesswork on my part. If there wasn't so many armies, I'd post a poll for each of them in the "other armies" section and see what people think.
 
Last edited:
Quick tournament report - we had a 1000pt local tourney today. ~20 people came.

I came in 2nd. My 1000 point list was an oldblood on carno, an ancient stegadon, a brick of saurus, and a skink battle standard bearer.

Round 1 v Brettonians - Won 1250 VP vs 230. Knights charged my stegadon and saurus but wound up losing combat and being slowly ground down. Nothing in his army could stand up to the old blood.

Round 2 v Brettonians (again) - Won 1150 VP vs 507. Old blood took a charge from a duke on hypogryph and a lance of cavalry, and my saurus followed up into the combat. Eventually ran them down and pursued into the rest of his army. Old blood wound up dying due to some unlucky rolls, but the game was already decided.

Round 3 v Tomb Kings - Two top generals by points were me and a Tomb King player, and we were paired together at the top table for grand finals. My Old Blood fought the tomb king on necrolith bone dragon on turn 2, lost combat by 1, and then immediately broke and was run down. Statistically this wasn't super likely, but it happened. If he had lasted in combat for 1 round, the Saurus would have gotten in on the dragon's flank, and the dragon would almost certainly have died the following turn. After my old blood fell, there was nothing left in my army that could kill the dragon. Lost 1150 VP vs 150 VP.
 
What magic items did you take? Interesting the old blood could last against a hippogriff & knight charge.
 
RipperDerek said:
Quick tournament report - we had a 1000pt local tourney today. ~20 people came.

I came in 2nd. My 1000 point list was an oldblood on carno, an ancient stegadon, a brick of saurus, and a skink battle standard bearer.

Round 1 v Brettonians - Won 1250 VP vs 230. Knights charged my stegadon and saurus but wound up losing combat and being slowly ground down. Nothing in his army could stand up to the old blood.

Round 2 v Brettonians (again) - Won 1150 VP vs 507. Old blood took a charge from a duke on hypogryph and a lance of cavalry, and my saurus followed up into the combat. Eventually ran them down and pursued into the rest of his army. Old blood wound up dying due to some unlucky rolls, but the game was already decided.

Round 3 v Tomb Kings - Two top generals by points were me and a Tomb King player, and we were paired together at the top table for grand finals. My Old Blood fought the tomb king on necrolith bone dragon on turn 2, lost combat by 1, and then immediately broke and was run down. Statistically this wasn't super likely, but it happened. If he had lasted in combat for 1 round, the Saurus would have gotten in on the dragon's flank, and the dragon would almost certainly have died the following turn. After my old blood fell, there was nothing left in my army that could kill the dragon. Lost 1150 VP vs 150 VP.
Click to expand...
It worked well probably because you met not magicians and no real dragons ;) and no virtues with monster killing blow
Interesting report!
 
Watching Square Based podcast and coverage of a few tournaments, seems like a Level 3 or 4 caster is clutch, if for nothing else other than shutting down enemy magic. Magic seems to be more a way to get board control and less on deal damage (though damage is always welcome).

Of particular note was using Illusion- Miasmic Mirage as a way to counter dragons. People has level 2 casters vs a level 4 casting MM. -2 movement to a dragon AND it can't march or charge! Basically it just sits there and breathes heavy. And chances are with a level 4 you can keep casting it, as you will just need to roll a 7+ to get the casting value of 11. And versus level 2 guys dispelling, they are trying to roll at least a 10 then. Fat chance.
 
It has a ridicolous range...the dragon player can easily avoid your spell and charge longer than you. It's not a tactic I would trust on
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top