Tutorial The Big TOW Lizardmen Tactica

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Post Guide

Post 1 - Overall pros and cons, intro, Special Rules and Race-Specific Magic Lore

Post 2 - Army list organisation and Characters

Post 3 - Infantry

Post 4 - Cavalry

Post 5 - Monsters

Post 6 - Race-Specific Magic Items and Disciplines of the Old Ones

Post 7 - Rulebook Magic Lores

Post 8 - Rulebook Magic Items

Post 9 - Tier List

Post 10 - (My) Arcane Journal Named Characters, Armies of Infamy and extra Race-Specific Magic Items

Post 1 - Overall pros and cons, intro, Special Rules and Race-specific Magic Lore
As the Lizardmen PDF is now out and some excitement about TOW is resurging, I thought it'd be a good time to start writing a tactica - let's see what the Servants of the Old Ones have in store for them in TOW! @Scalenex it'd be great if you could pin this.

Pros:

• Skink Skirmishers are still particularly viable (not something I wanted to see but if you're a fan of this playstyle you'll be pleased)
• At least one Saurus unit has to be taken in Core (something I'm quite happy to see)
• Temple Guard now count toward Core (something I'm particularly happy to see)
• Carnosaurs are tanky and more of a genuine threat
• The Lore of Lustria is a solid pair of spells
• Skink Skirmishers are now Kroxigor Chariot Runners
• Bastiladons will be particularly useful
• Jungle Swarms now have a use at last!
• Slann can now fly a good distance - time to engage trollface and play with movement shenanigans
• Both Slann and Skink Priests have a lot of Magic Lores to play with
• Obsidian Weapons means we haven't lost as much AP as other armies have
• Troglodons have some sort of use now

Cons:

• Saurus are now the same cost as Chaos Warriors for some reason
• No Skink Cohort and thus no Skrox - loss of a thematic and fun unit idea (even if it was frowned upon in the competitive scene)
• Salamanders are no longer as effective as they once were
• Saurus Cavalry are going to have Stupidity issues
• Razordons don't fire as many shots as they used to
• Cold-Blooded only works against Psychology now
• With our scaly skin acting as heavy armour now (why when Armoured Hide exists?), we cannot build tanky Saurus characters in the way we used to
• Slann can't join Temple Guard anymore

In the case of Lizardmen, I think we're pretty much middle tier still, which is fine. We've taken some nerfs, yes, but also some units have been boosted nicely, like the Carnosaur. Not to mention that most other armies have taken some nerfs too, including the focus factions. In particular the top-hitters like Elves and Warriors of Chaos are not as scary as they were. Of course this may change if the focus factions get additional supplements and rules, but I plan to make an Arcane Journal for the Lizards and all the other non-focus factions, which I will keep up to date with changes to try and keep the army balanced. Of course this won't be accepted at GW tournaments, but then the standard PDF army list won't either, so you've really very little to lose by making use of my work alongside the main list, and a good lot to gain.


ARMY SPECIAL RULES

Arcane Vassal: Same as in 8th Edition, a Slann can choose to cast one of his spells from the location of a friendly Skink Priest within 12". The only thing is it now works only once per turn through each Priest, I suppose to stop players just sitting him at the back of the army all day long, though you could still get around it just by taking several Priests and disperse them across the army.

Aquatic: A Skink and Kroxigor staple, this rule allows them to move through all water features without penalty, same as before.

Beast Handlers: Shooting is randomised when it's targeted at a Hunting Pack - on a 1-4 the shot hits a Salamander/Razordon, 5-6 it hits a Skink Handler. Pretty much the same as before again I think.

Cleaving Blow: A special rule fast becoming a universal one given that Tomb Guard, Grave Guard and now Ripperdactyls all use it. A weaker form of Killing Blow that only works against standard and heavy infantry and cavalry (whereas by the sounds of it Killing Blow can also work against Monstrous Infantry and Cavalry), and doesn't immediately deny the model of any remaining Wounds. Still not bad at all, though.

Cold-Blooded: Very similar to before, though only occurs when taking Fear, Terror or Panic tests - units taking them roll 3D6 and discard the highest. Still useful of course because Fear and Terror have been boosted this time, but annoying it can't be used against Break Tests or Stupidity tests (the Achilles heel of Saurus Cavalry...).

Drop Rocks: For some reason an Army Special Rule when this, as before, just applies to Terradons - once per game each Terradon Rider unit can inflict D3 Strength 4 hits per model in the unit on an enemy it flies over. The only thing is that, with reduced AP values all round in this game, it no longer inflicts an armour save penalty on an enemy, but given that there was not much of an armour save penalty to begin with, it makes no difference as to the best targets for this sort of attack.

Obsidian Blades: A nice new rule that fits our Aztec army theme very well, this rule gives all Lizardman hand weapons an AP of -1, meaning Saurus Warriors still fight every bit as well as they did before (besides losing Predatory Fighter attacks, which, while fun and thematic, weren't a huge boost anyway).


THE LORE OF LUSTRIA

Pretty much every faction has their own unique magic lore in this edition of Fantasy alongside several of the lores from the main rulebook, and Lizardmen are no exception, though unlike in previous editions, and funnily enough more like 6th Edition 40K, faction-specific Lores now only have two or three spells in them usually. For the first time we get a race-specific Magic Lore, and though there are only two spells in it, they are good'uns.

1. Apotheosis - An enchantment that has a very high casting value but also a good long range for spells in this game, and with good uses for it. The target character regains D3 lost wounds (or D3+1 if you manage to get 12+), and gets the Fear special rule (or Terror if the character already had Fear). Can only work on characters with any form of 'infantry' or 'cavalry' type so can't be used on Oldbloods on Carnosaurs, but can be cast on a character in combat so can keep an Oldblood fighting on (and makes him scarier), and because Skink Priests can take this spell too, they can use it to heal your Slann (who is now Monstrous Infantry) - a must-take given that Slann now seemingly can't join Temple Guard anymore.

2. Monsoon - A Remains in Play Magical Vortex using the Large Blast template which moves D6" every turn in a random direction, this lovely resurrection of The Rain Lord from 7th Edition 'drenches' all enemy units under the template, inflicting a -1 penalty to hit rolls on all their shooting attacks and preventing War Machines from shooting on a D6 roll of 1. An excellent way of dealing with Empire and Dwarfs of both stripes, particularly with its low casting value, good coverage of enemy units and the fact that even if the vortex is dispelled, the unit remains drenched for the rest of the game.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Post 2 - Army List Organisation and Characters

Characters: Up to 1 Slann, Up to 1 Saurus Oldblood or Skink Priest per 1000 points, any number of Saurus Scar-Veterans or Skink Chiefs.

Core: At least 1 unit of Saurus Warriors, up to 1 Temple Guard unit, Skink Skirmishers and Jungle Swarms

Special: Chameleon Skinks, Kroxigors, Saurus Cavalry, up to one unit of Terradon Riders per Skink character taken, up to one unit of Ripperdactyl Riders per Skink character taken, up to two Bastiladons per 1000 points

Rare: Up to one Salamander or Razordon Hunting Pack per 1000 points, up to one Stegadon or Troglodon per 1000 points

Allies: High Elves


Up to 1 Saurus Oldblood or Skink Priest per 1000 points means no more Oldblood Cowboy-spamming and will make us think about whether to go combat-heavy or magic-heavy, but the 50% maximum for characters means we can now feasibly have both a Slann and at least one Oldblood on Carnosaur together in an army now (which was much more difficult to achieve in 8th unless you were playing a massive 3000 point+ game).

Having to take at least one unit of Saurus prevents a full focus on Skink Skirmishers and/or Jungle Swarms (though there will doubtless be those among us who will try and cram as many of both into their armies as they can), and though it seems we can now only have a maximum of one Temple Guard unit, at least they will now work heavily toward fulfilling our Core tax.

No more Skink Cohorts! And no more Skrox mixed units! Though competitive players won't miss this, I thought it was a bit of a shame to lose this unique mechanic (though there is still synergy between Skink Skirmishers and Kroxigors, you'll soon see).

Bastiladons will certainly now be the firm favourite dinosaur it seems, chiefly because they can be taken in larger numbers than any of our other monsters, but also because they're cheap and in Special.

Being able to ally with High Elves adds in a plethora of additional options - flying Dragons, Phoenixes, Griffons and Eagles, Repeater Bolt Throwers, Knight-level cavalry that isn't stupid and some elite troops that are still nasty. Plus more Magic, as if we needed any more of it.


CHARACTERS

Slann-Mage Priest: The big frog is now 15 points cheaper. His Ward Save has been reduced by 1 point and can no longer join Temple Guard units, but he can now Fly-move 8", allowing him to Fly-March 16". With the ability to still take a Discipline of the Old Ones and 100 points of Magic Items he can be an absolute troll now, zooming around the board and using spells in ways only a Level 4 Wizard can. He can still Look Out Sir! wounds onto nearby Temple Guard units on a 2+, and will be very difficult to catch by enemy units wanting to engage him in melee. As a Wizard he can access five of the eight main Rulebook Lores of Magic, and can even access the Signature Spells of two of those he normally can't, as well as the Lore of Lustria.

Saurus Oldblood: Our premier combat character retains the same profile at the same points, and has traded Predatory Fighter for Furious Charge to give him a guaranteed additional attack in any turn he charges. Unfortunately his scales now count as Heavy Armour (which makes absolutely no sense given that Armoured Hide was practically born for us), which means though he can take Magic Armour, its armour save value will replace that given to him by his scales, rather than stack with it as it used to. His absolutely best bet to return to tanky form is to take a Cold One with the Horned One upgrade to give him Armoured Hide (1) (and no Stupidity), and the Bedazzling Helm to give him a 2+ armour save including his natural heavy armour and a shield (and inflicting a -1 penalty on all to Hit rolls against him in melee). Not a bad idea at all, though can only be done on one lucky Cowboy (the Helm at least, not the Horned One which is an Extremely Common item and can be taken by any number of Saurus characters). On the other hand a Carnosaur mount is a much better option now, as the Oldblood and his mount will now have Toughness 6 and 7 wounds, are no longer at risk of being sniped in one shot by a single laser-guided Cannon and will benefit from the maximum 3+ armour save from the Oldblood (if the Bedazzling Helm is taken) plus any Ward Save he can get out of his Magic Item allowance. Additionally the Carnosaur will only get Frenzy once he has tasted blood so you can choose your first charge target with ease, and has Swiftstride so gets a significantly larger charge range and is thus more easily able to choose the best target when Frenzy does set in. Unfortunately the Carnosaur's Multiple Wounds (D3) only works against Monsters now, but his additional Wounds and Toughness means he'll be more capable of doing that job and we have other things that can deal with Monstrous Infantry and Cavalry. The Oldblood still can be armed with either a cavalry spear, Halberd or Great Weapon to improve his already-solid Strength without the need to worry about Magic Weapons. Even if the Cowboy build is not as viable as it once was, the increased viability of other builds, specifically the Carnosaur variant, mean his overall versatility has arguably been improved.

Saurus Scar-Veteran: The Oldblood's smaller, weaker cousin now cannot be given the same level of durability as the Oldblood because he simply cannot take the Magic Items he needs to get a 2+ armour save, and is no longer the best choice to ride a Carnosaur because he gives the Carnosaur one less Wound (though 6 is still better than 5 wounds from previous editions). However, if we want some cheap Cowboys as wingmen for a tooled-up mounted Oldblood then they can each be given a Horned One for a 3+ save with room for a Magic Weapon, and if we want to use one as a BSB he can now take his full 50 points of Magic Items alongside his Magic Standard, allowing us to give him some additional protection.

Skink Priest: Skink Priests are still cheap and cheerful, still suck at combat (but they're not meant to do that job) and can access three different Magic Lores (and one mini-Lore) now to give them a much bigger array of spells - Battle Magic, Elementalism and Illusion, plus the two spells from the Lore of Lustria. Unfortunately they're now competing with Oldbloods for slots, meaning a Level 2 upgrade is pretty much a must for them, but they can still do a lot - buffing, slinging Magic Missiles and spreading magical presence across the battlefield. In particular one can fulfil a nicely fluffy role as a Slann attendant by staying within 12" of him to play Arcane Vassal and casting Apotheosis to heal him if he becomes wounded (something particularly easy to achieve with the ever-present Cloak of Feathers). Can ride an Ancient Stegadon to provide some muscle, counting as a Chariot mount rather than a Monstrous Mount - not a bad idea now that Cannons can't kill both at the same time and can't kill the Steg in one shot now, and because the Priest will count as riding a Chariot he can't be targeted at all and so will benefit fully from the Steg's Toughness and 6 Wounds.

Skink Chief: Same he's always been, a cheap, expendable lower-level character who can take cheap Magic Weapons to give him some oomph as a surprise for anyone who tries to assault your Skink units, but won't last long in a Challenge against a dedicated melee character build. Can also take a Stegadon mount (probably the better choice over the Priest for this as you can take as many of these as you like so can really try and escape the restrictions on Stegadons), which boosts the WS and Wounds of the Steg and giving the Chief a whopping T6, but more likely to take a Terradon or Ripperdactyl for mobility and supporting these units now that his original job of protecting Skink Cohorts is kaput. Can be taken in any number so fill your boots once you've taken your big beasts.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Post 3 - Infantry

INFANTRY

Temple Guard: Temple Guard are now a big addition to our Core slots. They've gone up by 2 points and have lost a point of Initiative and a point of armour (previously they could take light armour alongside a 5+ Scaly Skin save and a shield to give them a total save of 3+ against shooting and 4+ in close combat, now their heavy armour and shield give them a 4+ save in shooting and 5+ in melee), but the Initiative reduction can be dealt with and with the reduction of armour save penalties across the game now, a slightly reduced armour save is a lot less of an issue. They're still the better of our Saurus fighters with 2 WS4 Strength 5 AP-1 attacks each from their Halberds, and with the new rules for charging giving an Initiative bonus and races' Initiative dropped across the board they have a good chance of going first if they can make that charge successfully. They also have the Shieldwall and Stubborn special rules which together can stack once per game to allow them to automatically give ground after losing a combat instead of having to take a Break Test. Where they really shine is being able to take a Magic Standard up to 100 points, allowing them to access any of the banners available in the main rulebook or in our list (the best choices for them being the Sun Standard of Chotec for shooting protection, the Rampaging Banner to ensure they make successful charges or the Razor Standard for extra AP value on 6s), and the Revered Guardian being able to take Magic Items worth up to 50 points, allowing him to be tooled up with a potent Magic Weapon to boost the unit's attack power further. Additionally within 9" of a friendly Slann any Temple Guard can now issue and accept challenges, allowing the unit to keep powerful enemy characters at bay so that the rest of the models in it can focus on pummelling the weaker enemy rank-and-file. The one drawback is that only one unit can be taken in the army it seems, so it needs to be a sizable one (20+) to make attacks count, claim Rank Bonus and weather enemy shooting.

Saurus Warriors: Our standard Saurus have been inexplicably points-hiked to the level of a Chaos Warrior, at 14 points per model now. But to be fair Chaos Warriors have received a big profile nerf while Saurus haven't, so the two units may actually be able to fight a balanced combat. Standard sword-and-board Chaos Warriors still have a higher WS and Initiative, but both have the same Movement, Strength, Toughness, Leadership and armour save and the Saurus now have superior numbers of attacks (standard Chaos Warriors have been reduced to 1 attack each before weapon upgrades) plus the Obsidian Blades special rule giving them an edge in the AP department. Indeed it's questionable as to why spears would be considered an upgrade that has to be paid for in Saurus Warriors' case - yes they give them an extra rank of attacks, though only for front-rank models in base contact with an enemy and this comes at the expense of that AP -1 from Obsidian Blades, which only applies to hand weapons. There are certainly uses for both, though, as hand weapons and shields make Saurus better against armoured foes, while spears help them to maximise the quantity of attacks they need to be able to cull large masses of weaker troops, who have inferior armour anyway. As with the Temple Guard their Initiative problem is no longer so much of an issue as charging can take them up to a solid Initiative 4, allowing them to strike at the same time as those Chaos Warriors (with a Solar Engine nearby it'd increase it further to Initiative 5, allowing them to strike first). Though their morale capabilities have been reduced somewhat with Cold-Blooded no longer applying to Break Tests, they also no longer automatically flee if they fail anymore, and the ability to give the Shieldwall rule to one unit per 1000 points will allow them to be able to simply give ground instead of Falling Back in Good Order once per game. You have to take at least one unit of these per army, and to be honest I still rate them as solid combatants, certainly against pretty much all enemy Core choices now they are capable of putting up solid resistance and holding a strong battleline alongside the Temple Guard, particularly when joined by a foot Oldblood or Scar-Veteran and when the Spawn Leader champions are given cheap Magic Weapons to play with.

Skink Skirmishers: With the demise of the Cohorts now leaving Skink Skirmishers as the one Skink Core option we can choose from, Skirmishers are going to be seen more often in our army than ever, especially as they've now been given a 2-point discount for inexplicable reasons, can Move through Cover and 1 unit of them per 1000 points can choose to either Scout or Vanguard (in most circumstances of course Scouts is the better option to start annoying your enemy early). One thing to bear in mind, though, is that because Cold-Blooded no longer applies when rallying, getting your Skirmishers to come back after you Flee them from an enemy charge is going to be more difficult now.

Chameleon Skinks: Chameleon Skinks are much the same as before - better Skink Skirmishers that can always Scout - but have strangely lost their Chameleon rule (the thing that really defines their identity... because Chameleons can camouflage themselves and are much more difficult to see than a standard Skink... obviously). However on the plus side they are two points cheaper, have gained a point of Leadership, can now voluntarily Fall Back in Good Order once per turn when someone tries to shoot them to increase the chances of the enemy being forced to hit them at Long Range and, somehow, the Chameleon Skink Patrol Leader has Strength 4 on his profile... move aside Saurus Warriors, the Chad Chameleon is here!

Kroxigors: Kroxigors are 1 point cheaper than before (woohoo) and have lost Predatory Fighter as everyone else has (plus a point of armour), but have now gained +2 points of Initiative (which is great until you realise they can only take Great Weapons... but still, at least they have a good chance of passing Initiative tests), and now have a fun new rule that gives them some synergy with Skink Skirmishers to replace that which they lost from the demise of Skrox - Skirmish Screen essentially allows Skink Skirmishers to operate as Chariot Runners for Kroxigor blocks, by allowing the Kroxigors to move (or charge, hint hint) through them without issue, meaning Kroxigors are excellent to take in a Skink Cloud-focussed army - the Skinks can act as a wall to stop the enemy getting an early charge on the Kroxigors, but don't stop the Kroxigors charging the enemy. Otherwise Krox are very similar to before, with a mighty Strength of 7, AP -2 and Armour Bane (1) they can take down even big monsters with ease, and their armour allows them to compete well with other Monstrous Infantry and Monstrous Cavalry (which will be more their zone of operation now that Carnosaurs cannot use their Multiple Wounds (D3) rule against them).

Jungle Swarms: For a long time, the Jungle Swarm remained forgotten, as Swarms became expensive points sinks that died too quickly. But with the banishment of the rule of Swarms suffering Unstable-style Combat Resolution wounds, Jungle Swarms are now a big thing again! With Insignificant preventing them from blocking Line of Sight as before, Unbreakable still making sure they'll stay in combat until the end, their Poisoned Attacks being useful at damaging unarmoured units and No One Cares now meaning their destruction doesn't cause Panic, they can serve us very well as a front line of cheap blocking skirmishers that grind a few wounds off the enemy and keep them tied up in combat for a turn or two while we can position our units to best effect. Indeed personally I would value these more than Skink Skirmishers as an expendable speedbump.

Salamander Packs: Salamanders have gone down five points per model, and their usefulness has gone a fair way down now too - where in 8th they were pretty much living Fire Throwers, in TOW their shooting attack has been reduced to a breath weapon each, meaning it's that much more difficult to use them without them getting charged and overwhelmed in close combat. However, Fear is significantly better now and makes it difficult for enemy troops to charge them, and the flame templates still make them dangerous to large lightly-armoured expendable units like Clanrats, Goblins and Empire State Troops. The fact they're now considered Skirmishers plus the random distribution of shots between the heavy armour-clad Salamanders and Handlers means they're more difficult to kill through shooting, so they have a fair chance of reaching their target, and the templates should hopefully cause enough casualties to Panic the target before they can decide to engage the Salamanders in combat. Even if they do reach them they potentially may be forced to fight with a -1 penalty to Hit rolls if they fail their Fear test, and the Salamanders strike back with two Strength 5 AP -2 attacks each so can hold their own against limited numbers. Additionally, Salamanders no longer eat their handlers and behave normally when their Handlers are slain, so at least they can be relied on to get the job done.

Razordon Packs: I'd say Razordons are the more useful of the two Hunting Pack choices now - unlike Salamanders their Razor Barbs can be fired even if they march and without penalty when standing and shooting, which, alongside their superior range, means they can keep up the pressure a lot more consistently on a chosen target (as opposed to Salamanders who will most likely get just one or two rounds of shooting off before the enemy gets to engage them). Though they fire far fewer shots now compared to previous Editions, they also have Ballistic Skill 4 now so will be more accurate with each shot, and again they cause Fear which has been vastly improved and makes it considerably more difficult for enemies to charge and fight them. They also have gone down by 5 points per beast, and were cheaper than Salamanders to begin with, so with limited Rare slot points these will fit into the army more easily alongside expensive Stegadons and Troglodons.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Post 4 - Cavalry

Saurus Cavalry: As someone on another thread described, I'd now consider Saurus Cavalry a 'high-risk, high-reward' unit. They've now gone up by 4-points per model, but they are pretty much exactly what they were before - still a strong Knight-level cavalry unit with the solid combat profile of a Saurus and probably the best standard cavalry mount profile there is, in the form of the 2 Strength 4 Armour Bane attacks of the Cold One. As per standard Saurus they now have the conundrum of deciding whether to go with the AP -1 provided to their standard Hand Weapons in every combat round, or to take Cavalry Spears to give that same AP value, the ability to fight in two ranks and +1 Strength, but only on the charge, and there are viable situations for both options. They can also take the Drilled special rule to give them free reforms and both Magic Standards and 25 point item allowances for the Pack Leader, and Fear makes them all the more dangerous in combat. Yet there is one significant downside - Stupidity plus the nerfing of Cold-Blooded to only work on Psychology tests means this great unit is somewhat neutered by being significantly more likely to fail Stupidity tests. To be fair, they now still get to make their full move of 7" if they fail such a test, but it's still not the best when they could be marching or charging instead, or moving in any direction they wish instead of directly forward. Unlike Trolls, though, Saurus Cav still have an above-average Leadership of 8 so will be passing more often than failing, and now that Slann can fly-March it's possible to keep a Saurus Cavalry unit inside a Ld 9 bubble to ensure they pass all the more often. All in all, still a solid melee unit that can be extremely strong on the charge, but requires proximity to a Slann General to ensure they don't muck up a crucial time to charge.

Terradon Riders: Our first and original flying cavalry unit is pretty much the same as before, except that they now use the higher Toughness of the Terradon so are a modicum more resistant to attack (though T3 still isn't fantastic), for a 3-point discount. Pretty much business-as-usual for these chaps then, use them to harass with javelins or bolas, drop rocks on a weaker enemy unit and try and get them to Panic, and keep out of combat.

Ripperdactyl Riders: Our second and newer flying cavalry unit is again largely the same, Ripperdactyls can be solid even against armoured units thanks to Cleaving Blow, particularly on the charge and against an enemy with a Blot Toad marker, though the introduction of the Impetuous special rule is a particular issue and makes it easy for them to be baited - normally I'd suggest putting a screen of Skirmishers, in this case Terradon Riders, in front of a Ripperdactyl unit to block them from charging, but Ripperdactyls also are Skirmishers, and thus have 360 degree visibility and can charge an enemy in any direction, meaning a canny opponent can place a chaff unit facing their flank or rear for them to waste their time on. Of course, being Skirmishers, you could form the Terradon Riders in a circle around the Ripperdactyls, but the whole collection of two units would fast become rather expensive to achieve this viably. However, the one mercy is that, being Flyers, Ripperdactyls benefit from quite a long maximum charge range, meaning more often than not there should be a multitude of enemy units to choose from and the player can choose from the easiest target to throw the Rippers into.

Carnosaur: For some reason the Carnosaur is treated as a Cavalry unit in the roster rather than a Monster, though it has Behemoth as its troop type (which makes me wonder if there's a loophole to be exploited where Apotheosis is concerned after all). Otherwise though, the Carnosaur has seen a pretty decent glow-up. Only being able to use Multiple Wounds (D3) on Monsters and a fixed value of 2 for its Stomp attacks are little downers, but it now automatically has Swiftstride and instead of its Toughness of 5 and 5 Wounds, it now adds +1 to its rider's Toughness and +4 to his Wounds, meaning it effectively now has Toughness 6 and 7 Wounds with an Oldblood riding it (which should be 9 times out of 10). This combined with the reduced lethality of artillery, the improved rules for Terror and a 50-point price discount means its usefulness has shot up and it is easily the best Monster we have now. As the icing on the cake, its Blood Frenzy rule has now become the most efficient way to gain the benefits of Frenzy, as it means the player can choose the Carnosaur's target and avoid baiting units before zeroing in and letting it do its thing.

 

[airjamy]

Post 2 - Army List Organisation and Characters

Characters: Up to 1 Slann, Up to 1 Saurus Oldblood or Skink Priest per 1000 points, any number of Saurus Scar-Veterans or Skink Chiefs.

Core: At least 1 unit of Saurus Warriors, up to 1 Temple Guard unit, Skink Skirmishers and Jungle Swarms

Special: Chameleon Skinks, Kroxigors, Saurus Cavalry, up to one unit of Terradon Riders per Skink character taken, up to one unit of Ripperdactyl Riders per Skink character taken, up to two Bastiladons per 1000 points

Rare: Up to one Salamander or Razordon Hunting Pack per 1000 points, up to one Stegadon or Troglodon per 1000 points

Allies: High Elves


Up to 1 Saurus Oldblood or Skink Priest per 1000 points means no more Oldblood Cowboy-spamming and will make us think about whether to go combat-heavy or magic-heavy, but the 50% maximum for characters means we can now feasibly have both a Slann and at least one Oldblood on Carnosaur together in an army now (which was much more difficult to achieve in 8th unless you were playing a massive 3000 point+ game).

Having to take at least one unit of Saurus prevents a full focus on Skink Skirmishers and/or Jungle Swarms (though there will doubtless be those among us who will try and cram as many of both into their armies as they can), and though it seems we can now only have a maximum of one Temple Guard unit, at least they will now work heavily toward fulfilling our Core tax.

No more Skink Cohorts! And no more Skrox mixed units! Though competitive players won't miss this, I thought it was a bit of a shame to lose this unique mechanic (though there is still synergy between Skink Skirmishers and Kroxigors, you'll soon see).

Bastiladons will certainly now be the firm favourite dinosaur it seems, chiefly because they can be taken in larger numbers than any of our other monsters, but also because they're cheap and in Special.

Being able to ally with High Elves adds in a plethora of additional options - flying Dragons, Phoenixes, Griffons and Eagles, Repeater Bolt Throwers, Knight-level cavalry that isn't stupid and some elite troops that are still nasty. Plus more Magic, as if we needed any more of it.


CHARACTERS

Slann-Mage Priest: The big frog is now 15 points cheaper. His Ward Save has been reduced by 1 point and can no longer join Temple Guard units, but he can now Fly-move 8", allowing him to Fly-March 16". With the ability to still take a Discipline of the Old Ones and 100 points of Magic Items he can be an absolute troll now, zooming around the board and using spells in ways only a Level 4 Wizard can. He can still Look Out Sir! wounds onto nearby Temple Guard units on a 2+, and will be very difficult to catch by enemy units wanting to engage him in melee. As a Wizard he can access five of the eight main Rulebook Lores of Magic, and can even access the Signature Spells of two of those he normally can't, as well as the Lore of Lustria.

Saurus Oldblood: Our premier combat character retains the same profile at the same points, and has traded Predatory Fighter for Furious Charge for an additional attack in any turn he charges. Unfortunately his scales now count as Heavy Armour (which makes absolutely no sense given that Armoured Hide was practically born for us), which means though he can take Magic Armour, its armour save value will replace that given to him by his scales, rather than stack with it as it used to. His absolutely best bet to return to tanky form is to take a Cold One with the Horned One upgrade to give him Armoured Hide (1) (and no Stupidity), and the Bedazzling Helm to give him a 2+ armour save including his natural heavy armour and a shield (and inflicting a -1 penalty on all to Hit rolls against him in melee). Not a bad idea at all, though can only be done on one lucky Cowboy (the Helm at least, not the Horned One which is an Extremely Common item and can be taken by any number of Saurus characters). On the other hand a Carnosaur mount is a much better option now, as the Oldblood and his mount will now have Toughness 6 and 7 wounds, are no longer at risk of being sniped in one shot by a single laser-guided Cannon and will benefit from the maximum 3+ armour save from the Oldblood (if the Bedazzling Helm is taken) plus any Ward Save he can get out of his Magic Item allowance. Additionally the Carnosaur will only get Frenzy once he has tasted blood so you can choose your first charge target with ease, and has Swiftstride so gets a significantly larger charge range and is thus more easily able to choose the best target when Frenzy does set in. Unfortunately the Carnosaur's Multiple Wounds (D3) only works against Monsters now, but his additional Wounds and Toughness means he'll be more capable of doing that job and we have other things that can deal with Monstrous Infantry and Cavalry. The Oldblood still can be armed with either a cavalry spear, Halberd or Great Weapon to improve his already-solid Strength without the need to worry about Magic Weapons. Even if the Cowboy build is not as viable as it once was, the increased viability of other builds, specifically the Carnosaur variant, mean his overall versatility has arguably been improved.

Saurus Scar-Veteran: The Oldblood's smaller, weaker cousin now cannot be given the same level of durability as the Oldblood because he simply cannot take the Magic Items he needs to get a 2+ armour save, and is no longer the best choice to ride a Carnosaur because he gives the Carnosaur one less Wound (though 6 is still better than 5 wounds from previous editions). However, if we want some cheap Cowboys as wingmen for a tooled-up mounted Oldblood then they can each be given a Horned One for a 3+ save with room for a Magic Weapon, and if we want to use one as a BSB he can now take his full 50 points of Magic Items alongside his Magic Standard, allowing us to give him some additional protection.

Skink Priest: Skink Priests are still cheap and cheerful, still suck at combat (but they're not meant to do that job) and can access three different Magic Lores (and one mini-Lore) now to give them a much bigger array of spells - Battle Magic, Elementalism and Illusion, plus the two spells from the Lore of Lustria. Unfortunately they're now competing with Oldbloods for slots, meaning a Level 2 upgrade is pretty much a must for them, but they can still do a lot - buffing, slinging Magic Missiles and spreading magical presence across the battlefield. In particular one can fulfil a nicely fluffy role as a Slann attendant by staying within 12" of him to play Arcane Vassal and casting Apotheosis to heal him if he becomes wounded (something particularly easy to achieve with the ever-present Cloak of Feathers). Can ride an Ancient Stegadon to provide some muscle, counting as a Chariot mount rather than a Monstrous Mount - not a bad idea now that Cannons can't kill both at the same time and can't kill the Steg in one shot now. However, as the Steg isn't a Monstrous Mount it seems as though the Priest can be targeted separately in close combat, if not shooting, so beware of that.

Skink Chief: Same he's always been, a cheap, expendable lower-level character who can take cheap Magic Weapons to give him some oomph as a surprise for anyone who tries to assault your Skink units, but won't last long in a Challenge against a dedicated melee character build. Can also take a Stegadon mount (probably the better choice over the Priest for this as you can take as many of these as you like so can really try and escape the restrictions on Stegadons), but more likely to take a Terradon or Ripperdactyl for mobility and supporting these units now that his original job of protecting Skink Cohorts is kaput. Can be taken in any number so fill your boots once you've taken your big beasts.

Nice job in getting started on the tactica soon! I am really not sure if you can snipe a Skink character on a Stegadon. What makes you think he would? I already made another post describing the rules interaction, ill copy it again here:

-

I am still a bit unclear on how the whole Skink Chiefs/Priests riding Stegadons works. We have these rules in our rulebook, page 13:

Character Mount: A Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon may be included in your army as a character’s mount. If so, its points are added to that of its rider.
Note that, because it has the Howdah special rule, a Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon is considered to be a chariot mount, rather than a ridden monster.

So it is a chariot mount. Page 205 BBB describes that:

Characters & Chariot Mounts
If a character is mounted upon a chariot (be it ‘light’ or ‘heavy’), the whole model is treated
as being of the chariot’s sub-category of troop type.
Split Profile (Chariot Mount): Not unlike any other chariot, a character that is mounted
upon a chariot will have a split profile, as described on page 97. In game terms, this works
as follows:
• Unless noted otherwise, any special rules that apply to one element (chariot, character,
crew or beasts) apply to the others as well.
• This model uses the Movement characteristic of the beasts that draw the chariot or, if
there are no beasts, of the chariot itself.
• The character, crew and beasts each use their own Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Strength,
Initiative and Attacks characteristics, and their own weapons.
• In combat, all enemy rolls To Hit are made against the character’s Weapon Skill.
• Impact Hits and/or Stomp Attacks use the chariot’s Strength.
• Enemy rolls To Wound are made against either the chariot’s or the character’s
Toughness, whichever is the highest.
• When this model makes an Armour Save roll, it may use either the chariot’s or the
character’s armour value, whichever is better.
• If the chariot is reduced to zero Wounds, the model as a whole is removed from play.
Improved Characteristics: When a character mounts a chariot, they join its crew,
bolstering their strength, fighting ability and survivability. To represent this, the Wounds
characteristic of the character is added to that of the chariot. For example, if a character
with W3 is mounted upon a chariot with W4, the model would have seven Wounds.

Page 97 offer no more relevant rules regarding targeting. So reading this, a Skink Chief riding on a Stegadon would add his 2 wounds to the Stegadon (NICE) and he cannot be sniped off it as you combine the profiles. He would also if you have a higher armor save be able to use his, so if he would go for example Silvered Steel the whole model would have a 3+ save. Meteoric Iron also sounds interesting for the always 5+. If he has a Ward Save though the Stegadon should not be able to use it right, as only the Armor Save is used.

Reading this, it does not look like he could be sniped off it. A Skink Chief thus offers a 45 points upgrade for an extra 2 wounds, WS4 instead of WS2 for the entire model and 3 extra pretty decent poison attacks in close combat, WS4 S4. Only downside is that he only goes on a normal Stegadon and not an Ancient Stegadon, but that still sounds like juicy upgrade to me especially since he does not eat up Rare points then. He would also not be allowed to use the Bow i think? Putting a Skink Priest on an Ancient Stegadon still offers it 2 extra wounds and it would mean you could cast off it, making Assailment spells and such very nice even if he would not improve their WS.

Am i missing something? Why are people saying you can snipe him off a Stegadon because it is a Chariot Mount, i cannot find anything pertaining to that?

Sounds like putting dudes on Stegadon is a very good way of supporting our Sauri!

 

[airjamy]

Nice job in getting started on the tactica soon! I am really not sure if you can snipe a Skink character on a Stegadon. What makes you think he would? I already made another post describing the rules interaction, ill copy it again here:

-

I am still a bit unclear on how the whole Skink Chiefs/Priests riding Stegadons works. We have these rules in our rulebook, page 13:

Character Mount: A Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon may be included in your army as a character’s mount. If so, its points are added to that of its rider.
Note that, because it has the Howdah special rule, a Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon is considered to be a chariot mount, rather than a ridden monster.

So it is a chariot mount. Page 205 BBB describes that:

Characters & Chariot Mounts
If a character is mounted upon a chariot (be it ‘light’ or ‘heavy’), the whole model is treated
as being of the chariot’s sub-category of troop type.
Split Profile (Chariot Mount): Not unlike any other chariot, a character that is mounted
upon a chariot will have a split profile, as described on page 97. In game terms, this works
as follows:
• Unless noted otherwise, any special rules that apply to one element (chariot, character,
crew or beasts) apply to the others as well.
• This model uses the Movement characteristic of the beasts that draw the chariot or, if
there are no beasts, of the chariot itself.
• The character, crew and beasts each use their own Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Strength,
Initiative and Attacks characteristics, and their own weapons.
• In combat, all enemy rolls To Hit are made against the character’s Weapon Skill.
• Impact Hits and/or Stomp Attacks use the chariot’s Strength.
• Enemy rolls To Wound are made against either the chariot’s or the character’s
Toughness, whichever is the highest.
• When this model makes an Armour Save roll, it may use either the chariot’s or the
character’s armour value, whichever is better.
• If the chariot is reduced to zero Wounds, the model as a whole is removed from play.
Improved Characteristics: When a character mounts a chariot, they join its crew,
bolstering their strength, fighting ability and survivability. To represent this, the Wounds
characteristic of the character is added to that of the chariot. For example, if a character
with W3 is mounted upon a chariot with W4, the model would have seven Wounds.

Page 97 offer no more relevant rules regarding targeting. So reading this, a Skink Chief riding on a Stegadon would add his 2 wounds to the Stegadon (NICE) and he cannot be sniped off it as you combine the profiles. He would also if you have a higher armor save be able to use his, so if he would go for example Silvered Steel the whole model would have a 3+ save. Meteoric Iron also sounds interesting for the always 5+. If he has a Ward Save though the Stegadon should not be able to use it right, as only the Armor Save is used.

Reading this, it does not look like he could be sniped off it. A Skink Chief thus offers a 45 points upgrade for an extra 2 wounds, WS4 instead of WS2 for the entire model and 3 extra pretty decent poison attacks in close combat, WS4 S4. Only downside is that he only goes on a normal Stegadon and not an Ancient Stegadon, but that still sounds like juicy upgrade to me especially since he does not eat up Rare points then. He would also not be allowed to use the Bow i think? Putting a Skink Priest on an Ancient Stegadon still offers it 2 extra wounds and it would mean you could cast off it, making Assailment spells and such very nice even if he would not improve their WS.

Am i missing something? Why are people saying you can snipe him off a Stegadon because it is a Chariot Mount, i cannot find anything pertaining to that?

Sounds like putting dudes on Stegadon is a very good way of supporting our Sauri!

As a ward save is a save, he would still be able to use it. Meteoric Iron+Talisman of Protection Skink Chief Steg let's go!

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Nice job in getting started on the tactica soon! I am really not sure if you can snipe a Skink character on a Stegadon. What makes you think he would? I already made another post describing the rules interaction, ill copy it again here:

-

I am still a bit unclear on how the whole Skink Chiefs/Priests riding Stegadons works. We have these rules in our rulebook, page 13:

Character Mount: A Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon may be included in your army as a character’s mount. If so, its points are added to that of its rider.
Note that, because it has the Howdah special rule, a Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon is considered to be a chariot mount, rather than a ridden monster.

So it is a chariot mount. Page 205 BBB describes that:

Characters & Chariot Mounts
If a character is mounted upon a chariot (be it ‘light’ or ‘heavy’), the whole model is treated
as being of the chariot’s sub-category of troop type.
Split Profile (Chariot Mount): Not unlike any other chariot, a character that is mounted
upon a chariot will have a split profile, as described on page 97. In game terms, this works
as follows:
• Unless noted otherwise, any special rules that apply to one element (chariot, character,
crew or beasts) apply to the others as well.
• This model uses the Movement characteristic of the beasts that draw the chariot or, if
there are no beasts, of the chariot itself.
• The character, crew and beasts each use their own Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Strength,
Initiative and Attacks characteristics, and their own weapons.
• In combat, all enemy rolls To Hit are made against the character’s Weapon Skill.
• Impact Hits and/or Stomp Attacks use the chariot’s Strength.
• Enemy rolls To Wound are made against either the chariot’s or the character’s
Toughness, whichever is the highest.
• When this model makes an Armour Save roll, it may use either the chariot’s or the
character’s armour value, whichever is better.
• If the chariot is reduced to zero Wounds, the model as a whole is removed from play.
Improved Characteristics: When a character mounts a chariot, they join its crew,
bolstering their strength, fighting ability and survivability. To represent this, the Wounds
characteristic of the character is added to that of the chariot. For example, if a character
with W3 is mounted upon a chariot with W4, the model would have seven Wounds.

Page 97 offer no more relevant rules regarding targeting. So reading this, a Skink Chief riding on a Stegadon would add his 2 wounds to the Stegadon (NICE) and he cannot be sniped off it as you combine the profiles. He would also if you have a higher armor save be able to use his, so if he would go for example Silvered Steel the whole model would have a 3+ save. Meteoric Iron also sounds interesting for the always 5+. If he has a Ward Save though the Stegadon should not be able to use it right, as only the Armor Save is used.

Reading this, it does not look like he could be sniped off it. A Skink Chief thus offers a 45 points upgrade for an extra 2 wounds, WS4 instead of WS2 for the entire model and 3 extra pretty decent poison attacks in close combat, WS4 S4. Only downside is that he only goes on a normal Stegadon and not an Ancient Stegadon, but that still sounds like juicy upgrade to me especially since he does not eat up Rare points then. He would also not be allowed to use the Bow i think? Putting a Skink Priest on an Ancient Stegadon still offers it 2 extra wounds and it would mean you could cast off it, making Assailment spells and such very nice even if he would not improve their WS.

Am i missing something? Why are people saying you can snipe him off a Stegadon because it is a Chariot Mount, i cannot find anything pertaining to that?

Sounds like putting dudes on Stegadon is a very good way of supporting our Sauri!

That is a good argument, I must admit I didn't notice fully how chariot-riding characters worked. In effect, then, he still does boost the Stegadon in a similar way to how an Oldblood boosts a Carnosaur. Will have to amend the tactica to incorporate this.

 

[Awfulcomet]

That is a good argument, I must admit I didn't notice fully how chariot-riding characters worked. In effect, then, he still does boost the Stegadon in a similar way to how an Oldblood boosts a Carnosaur. Will have to amend the tactica to incorporate this.

Is there a predicted timeline for your next tactica post?

 

[airjamy]

That is a good argument, I must admit I didn't notice fully how chariot-riding characters worked. In effect, then, he still does boost the Stegadon in a similar way to how an Oldblood boosts a Carnosaur. Will have to amend the tactica to incorporate this.

It is early days for all of us, i appreciate you for trying your best with these new and pretty complex rules!

I think both characters on Stegadons might be interesting, the Skink Priest being able to use Assailment spells on top of his big dino is pretty spicy even though he cannot take any armor. And Ancient for S6 on impact hits still very much matters, but the Chief is cheaper, comes with WS4 of course and he can take armor. Also makes me interested if you could make the double Engine of the Gods actually work, a +5 to cast on Slann is quite strong and losing the Bow is not that big of a deal. It all requires a lot of testing, which i will happily do the coming months!

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Is there a predicted timeline for your next tactica post?

Can't promise anything right now except that it will come at some point, as unfortunately Lustria is one of the sites my work's new IT site-policing system blocks access to, and have a lot of stuff to do there for a while, but hopefully sometime next week the Monster article may show itself.

 

[Awfulcomet]

Nice job in getting started on the tactica soon! I am really not sure if you can snipe a Skink character on a Stegadon. What makes you think he would? I already made another post describing the rules interaction, ill copy it again here:

-

I am still a bit unclear on how the whole Skink Chiefs/Priests riding Stegadons works. We have these rules in our rulebook, page 13:

Character Mount: A Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon may be included in your army as a character’s mount. If so, its points are added to that of its rider.
Note that, because it has the Howdah special rule, a Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon is considered to be a chariot mount, rather than a ridden monster.

So it is a chariot mount. Page 205 BBB describes that:

Characters & Chariot Mounts
If a character is mounted upon a chariot (be it ‘light’ or ‘heavy’), the whole model is treated
as being of the chariot’s sub-category of troop type.
Split Profile (Chariot Mount): Not unlike any other chariot, a character that is mounted
upon a chariot will have a split profile, as described on page 97. In game terms, this works
as follows:
• Unless noted otherwise, any special rules that apply to one element (chariot, character,
crew or beasts) apply to the others as well.
• This model uses the Movement characteristic of the beasts that draw the chariot or, if
there are no beasts, of the chariot itself.
• The character, crew and beasts each use their own Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Strength,
Initiative and Attacks characteristics, and their own weapons.
• In combat, all enemy rolls To Hit are made against the character’s Weapon Skill.
• Impact Hits and/or Stomp Attacks use the chariot’s Strength.
• Enemy rolls To Wound are made against either the chariot’s or the character’s
Toughness, whichever is the highest.
• When this model makes an Armour Save roll, it may use either the chariot’s or the
character’s armour value, whichever is better.
• If the chariot is reduced to zero Wounds, the model as a whole is removed from play.
Improved Characteristics: When a character mounts a chariot, they join its crew,
bolstering their strength, fighting ability and survivability. To represent this, the Wounds
characteristic of the character is added to that of the chariot. For example, if a character
with W3 is mounted upon a chariot with W4, the model would have seven Wounds.

Page 97 offer no more relevant rules regarding targeting. So reading this, a Skink Chief riding on a Stegadon would add his 2 wounds to the Stegadon (NICE) and he cannot be sniped off it as you combine the profiles. He would also if you have a higher armor save be able to use his, so if he would go for example Silvered Steel the whole model would have a 3+ save. Meteoric Iron also sounds interesting for the always 5+. If he has a Ward Save though the Stegadon should not be able to use it right, as only the Armor Save is used.

Reading this, it does not look like he could be sniped off it. A Skink Chief thus offers a 45 points upgrade for an extra 2 wounds, WS4 instead of WS2 for the entire model and 3 extra pretty decent poison attacks in close combat, WS4 S4. Only downside is that he only goes on a normal Stegadon and not an Ancient Stegadon, but that still sounds like juicy upgrade to me especially since he does not eat up Rare points then. He would also not be allowed to use the Bow i think? Putting a Skink Priest on an Ancient Stegadon still offers it 2 extra wounds and it would mean you could cast off it, making Assailment spells and such very nice even if he would not improve their WS.

Am i missing something? Why are people saying you can snipe him off a Stegadon because it is a Chariot Mount, i cannot find anything pertaining to that?

Sounds like putting dudes on Stegadon is a very good way of supporting our Sauri!

Why would the skink chief not be able to use the bow or blow pipes if now you hit against the ws of the skinks & not that of the steg?

 

[discomute]

Why would the skink chief not be able to use the bow or blow pipes if now you hit against the ws of the skinks & not that of the steg?

There is a difference in outgoing and incoming attacks.

Also what is missing from our rulebook that is on most chariots is the text

I believe this is just an oversight and as it says here, it is the "crew" that may fire. Definitely something that should be FAQed and I have sent it in

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Post 5 - Monsters

Stegadon: Our Stegs have remained largely as before, with their points values remaining the same, and on one hand their Impact Hits and Stomps have gone down to D3+1 and D3+2 respectively, but on the other, with Cannons being nerfed they are no longer at risk of being sniped in one shot so arguably their overall usability has gone up. The eternal debate between standard and Ancient Stegs perseveres - the ordinary Steg has a lower Strength and WS and a higher Initiative and Attacks, while the Ancient has the reverse, as before. New though, is that no longer is the ordinary Steg limited to the Giant Bow (which is a good job as it's now no longer a Bolt Thrower and just a single-shot, Multiple Wounds D3 Poisoned Attack) - it can choose to swap it for the Giant Blowpipes. The Bow is OK as an anti-monster weapon due to its long range, but you're only rolling a single die with 50% chance of hitting (less at long range), compared to the 2D6 shots that come out of the Blowpipes and give you chance of rolling a lot more 6s to get those Poisoned Attacks in. This means that the only thing you're paying 15 extra points for with an Ancient is the ability to take the Engine of the Gods (for another 25 points), which is easily the worst option not just as a Stegadon equipment option, but in our entire army as a whole. The requirement to have two Ancient Stegs with the same equipment option for a measly +1 bonus to casting for nearby Wizards is pretty darned poor, and though the Bound Spell is fine now that Bound Spells have been fixed, the Bastiladon has one with longer range and higher Strength and AP for just +1 extra to cast and a couple less hits, so you're easily better off just taking a 175 point Solar Engine Bastiladon for that. This means that the standard Steg is certainly the winner in terms of cost-effectiveness (especially as its AP value has actually increased since 8th), and if I had to choose one I'd certainly take it over the Ancient. However, if you're going Steg-heavy (not entirely possible unless you're skipping the Troglodon and taking one or more Steg-riding Chiefs), there is still room for an Ancient with Blowpipes to bring some Strength 6 Impact Hits and Stomps alongside a mixture of ordinary Stegs with Giant Bows and Blowpipes.

Bastiladon: Bastiladons were already easily our most cost-effective monster, but with them remaining in Special and their comparatively generous allowance of up to 2 per 1000 points, there is plenty of room to fill your boots with them. They've gone up 10 points and their profile is the same. Though they can't take a single Strength 10 attack anymore, their Thunderous Bludgeon weapon improves their AP value to -3 which arguably makes them more effective in a melee now. Their armour save has been reduced to 3+, but many other units across the game have too, most Knights are also reduced to a 3+ save now. They also now have D3 Impact Hits to make up for a reduced number of Stomps, so Elves won't like fighting these lads any more than Stegadons. Both equipment options have now had a significant boost in usability - the Ark of Sotek can deal some extra damage to each enemy unit in combat with the Bastiladon with its ability to deal out 2D6 Strength 2 hits (useful for clearing away tarpit troops and can potentially help to swing a combat), and as Jungle Swarms are now so much more useful, its ability to heal and resurrect models for Jungle Swarm units is a lot more welcome. The Solar Engine of Chotec's Initiative bonus is a lot more beneficial now that Initiative is crucial for determining who strikes first when charging, and now that Bound Spells have been brought back from the dead and with the loss of its random Strength and its damage being fixed to a solid 3D3, it is now a lot more reliable choice to take and a serious damage dealer. At least one Solar Engine Bastiladon is pretty much a must-take I think, and if you're planning on using Jungle Swarm screens it's definitely worth taking an Ark of Sotek Bastiladon too.

Troglodon: Ah the Troglodon. Great lore, a near-useless points-sink in 8th Edition. In TOW? Not as bad as it once was - the Oracle rider now counts as a full Level 1 Wizard who can take Battle Magic, Illusion and Lore of Lustria spells, helping us to get past our unnecessarily strict limit on Skink Priests. The beast's Spit Venom attack is now a Breath Weapon that wounds even T5+ troops on 5s. Though Primeval Roar is still a once-per-battle ability that requires a Leadership test and only affects units within 7", Furious Charge is a solid bonus that really helps our Saurus kick arse when they need to. It's still not a brawler in combat, and is certainly not designed to go up against other monsters in a fight, even with Poisoned Attacks at its disposal, but if you look at it as a super Skink Priest that can buff nearby Saurus, then it's certainly not as unappetising as it once was. I'd definitely take one of these over an Ancient Steg with Engine of the Gods, though competing with the other Steg builds for slots still hurts it. Take one if you want to focus fully on Slann and Skink magic or a Saurus army, but otherwise I still wonder if it walks in the Stegadon's shadow.

 

[Kalisto]

Post 5 - Monsters
You

I should have added that Stegadon disrupt units but Bastiladon doesn’t. Idk if this is new for TOW but it may be a big difference.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I should have added that Stegadon disrupt units but Bastiladon doesn’t. Idk if this is new for TOW but it may be a big difference.

Interesting, though I can't see it in its rules or in the rulebook.

 

[Kalisto]

Interesting, though I can't see it in its rules or in the rulebook.

Just read basic rules… you need unit strength 5 for disrupt and negate ranks on flank/rear. Unit strength = number of wounds for behemoths. Bastiladon has 4, Stegadon 5.

In this case paradoxally troglodon is better with his 5 wounds

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Just read basic rules… you need unit strength 5 for disrupt and negate ranks on flank/rear. Unit strength = number of wounds for behemoths. Bastiladon has 4, Stegadon 5.

In this case paradoxally troglodon is better with his 5 wounds

An interesting point, though of course it only works if the monster hits the unit in the flank or rear. I was expecting some special rule allowing the Steg to disrupt a unit even when hitting it in the front because it can.

 

[Kalisto]

An interesting point, though of course it only works if the monster hits the unit in the flank or rear. I was expecting some special rule allowing the Steg to disrupt a unit even when hitting it in the front because it can.

Don’t expect that… it’s TOW not newer editions. As 6th and 7th edition (and probably even 8th If remember well) ranks were disrupted only on flanks and rear. Not of being a behemot.

 

[Rimbo]

Post 5 - Monsters

Some errors there. Bastiladon with Ark of Sotek can't ressurect Jungle Swarms, it just heals them, and Eotg is a 25 points upgrade.

Also, I don't agree with your assesment of Stegadon's equipment. I think that eotg is the best option actually. For 25 points you get bound spell which is basically a fireball. Ruby Ring of Ruin gives fireball for 30 points. RRoR bound spell has longer range, but power level 2, while eotg is PL 3. The price seems fair.

Of course, it is not amazing, just a nice bonus. While great bow and blowpipes are free they suffer from skink's low BS. Actually, I consider Great Blowpipes to be the worst option. You have -1 for moving, -1 for long range and -1 for multiple shots. So mostly you're hitting on 7's, no poison. You can theoretically stay in place and have poison, but why, when Stegadon is best in combat. Finally, you could move within 9 inches of something. Close range, so poison. Then again, if you move within 9 inches in your turn you'll be charged. If you start within 9 inches you want to charge with Stegadon, not shoot. Therefore Great Blowpipes might be good on paper if you think of them as 2d6 poison shots, but in reality I dont think they work that well.

 

[discomute]

Just an FYI to everyone - you don't have to use multiple shots. I agree that if you never use it there is little point. But if you take them and find yourself on 7's just shoot single and you're back to 6's.