Tutorial The Old World Lizardmen Army PDF is out and free

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

This sounds pretty ok for 2K

++ Characters [985 pts] ++
Saurus Oldblood [362 pts]
(Hand weapon, Scaly Skin (counts as heavy armor), Shield, on Carnosaur, Dragon Slaying Sword)
Skink Chief [313 pts]
(Additional hand weapon, calloused hide (counts as light armour), on Stegadon, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Talisman of Protection)
Slann Mage-Priest [310 pts]
(Hand weapon, General, Battle Standard Bearer, Elementalism)
++ Core Units [730 pts] ++
10 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
(Javelins and shields, calloused hides (counts as light armour), The Scouts)
10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
(Javelins and shields, calloused hides (counts as light armour))
10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
(Javelins and shields, calloused hides (counts as light armour))
18 Temple Guard [309 pts]
(hand weapons, halberds, and shields, scaly skin (counts as heavy armour), Revered Guardian (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)
16 Saurus Warrior [261 pts]
(Hand weapons and shields, scaly skin (counts as heavy armour), Shieldwall, Spawn Leader (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)
++ Special Units [55 pts] ++
5 Chameleon Skinks [55 pts]
(Blowpipes and hand weapons, calloused hides (counts as light armour))
++ Rare Units [230 pts] ++
1 Ancient Stegadon (0-1 Stegadon or Troglodon per 1,000 points) [230 pts]
(Great horns and giant bow, Skink Crew (x5) with hand weapons and javelins (required))
---
Created with "Old World Builder"
[https://old-world-builder.com]

I'm not impressed all too much with chameleon skinks. Like it seems always better to just take another Skink skirmisher unit.

With those 55 points I'd fill your Lord and Hero magic and then consider a magic banner and magic weapon in your Templeguard.

Like put a luckstone on your Oldblood. Then a warbanner on the TG then a Bitting Blade or Sword of Striking on the champ.

If there something you see in them that Im missing?

 

[Cristhian MLR]

I do feel 2500 is a better format then 2000 the more and more we try to bring monsters and behemoths. That or we're not intended to have them in plenty on lists like we can in AoS, which is fine but I like my Jurassic Park lists.

Sauri!

Sauruses, not cacti. "i" is plural for latin words (cactus), "es" is plural for greek words (saurus).

Trust me, I'm paleontologist on formation.

 

[discomute]

Ah geez, totally forgot that the Skink Chief is a minor hero with the 50 points cap.

@discomute I don't think OB/Carno and SC/Steg are really comparable, Carno trades offense and mobility for much less durability. Not sure if I want to run all three, I don't think skimping on equipment for the heroes is a good idea. For the Slann, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones is mandatory, and if you want to run Becalming Cogitation, Lore Familiar is mandatory too (and Cupped Hands becomes even better). So pick either the Carno or the Steg, and the rest of the list accordingly.

Regarding Rippers, why wouldn't Swiftstride count? It increases the max charge distance by +3", irrespective of the d6 roll.

Yep so on the rippers, you are totally correct also this has been covered in this thread before - think I have issues with my memory. I just really want them viable! Mind you I don't think I absorbed that 3 inch swift stride was by no means the max of 6. So... yeah probably a D tier

Cupped Hands of the Old ones as mandatory... interesting I am not certain about that. Miscasts don't seem that big of a deal if you're not in a unit.

And I am not convinced the Steg is better or even more durable than the OB, particularly since he is limited in magic items.

I absolutely agree with this. How is a skink and steg (SAS) more durable than a carno old blood (COB). The COB is t6 7w with a shield its a 4+ save. The SAS is t6 and 7w with a 4+ save. If anything, the COB has a higher WS and more capacity for magic items.

For my OB I am liking a Bedazzling Helm, Talisman of Protection and Potion of Speed with a standard shield and great weapon. Don't think Ethereal is going to be all that common, so not convinced of the utility of magical attacks over magical defense yet.

If that is the case then for my COB I really like just a straight meteoric iron armour with a talisman protection (or possibly the glyph necklace). 5+5+ unmodified with a great weapon... c'mon mate take your best shot and see how it works out for you... st7 might be overkill for quite a few armies though. But hell we are striking last most of the time anyway, and its only 53 points.

I do feel 2500 is a better format then 2000 the more and more we try to bring monsters and behemoths. That or we're not intended to have them in plenty on lists like we can in AoS, which is fine but I like my Jurassic Park lists.



Sauruses, not cacti. "i" is plural for latin words (cactus), "es" is plural for greek words (saurus).

Trust me, I'm paleontologist on formation.

Sauraii

It's more fun and makes us look cool.

Edit - PS it's easy to take 2 behemoth's at 2000. Don't think you can complain about not getting 3

 

[Acehilator]

Totally misremembered the stats on the whole Oldblood + Carno package. But with the Impact Hits and the additional Stomps at AP -2, I feel that the Steg can still compete. And it's cheaper too.

Regarding Cupped Hands, 3% adds up when casting and dispelling a lot. I still can't get over the fact that there is no limit to the number of Dispel attempts.

/edit: Also, yeah don't take Chameleon Skinks. Somebody at GW failed middle school math again. Regular Skinks are a lot better. Even if you pay the additional point for Scouts, they are still better.

What am I missing about the Scouts ability anyway? Seems useless?

 

[airjamy]

I'm not impressed all too much with chameleon skinks. Like it seems always better to just take another Skink skirmisher unit.

With those 55 points I'd fill your Lord and Hero magic and then consider a magic banner and magic weapon in your Templeguard.

Like put a luckstone on your Oldblood. Then a warbanner on the TG then a Bitting Blade or Sword of Striking on the champ.

If there something you see in them that Im missing?

I really like to go more boys and less toys. For example, none of the Slann upgrades have seemed that strong for me. Cupped Hands for example will feel very sad vs Dwarfs.

In my local meta we have a rule of 3, so I cannot take more normal skinks. More tg is probably better though, I could use the scout special rule for wasmachine hunting

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I really like to go more boys and less toys. For example, none of the Slann upgrades have seemed that strong for me. Cupped Hands for example will feel very sad vs Dwarfs.

In my local meta we have a rule of 3, so I cannot take more normal skinks. More tg is probably better though, I could use the scout special rule for wasmachine hunting

I'd still consider the luckstone on your oldblood. Really would stink for you to fail a save vs someone else with monster slayer.

 

[airjamy]

I'd still consider the luckstone on your oldblood. Really would stink for you to fail a save vs someone else with monster slayer.

Monster Slayer does not allow Armor Saves, so that Luckstone would do nothing right. Even if it would, i think a Sword of Striking might be better if he has to go into normal guys, he cannot use a handweapon over a magical weapon sadly, even if it would be better with Obsidian Blades .

I see how Chameleons are not great. I think i will go for this, exactly 1000 points spent on characters! XD

++ Characters [1000 pts] ++
Saurus Oldblood [377 pts]
(Hand weapon, Scaly Skin (counts as heavy armor), Shield, on Carnosaur, Dragon Slaying Sword, Sword of Striking)
Skink Chief [313 pts]
(Additional hand weapon, calloused hide (counts as light armour), on Stegadon, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Talisman of Protection)
Slann Mage-Priest [310 pts]
(Hand weapon, General, Battle Standard Bearer, Elementalism)
++ Core Units [770 pts] ++
12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
(Javelins and shields, calloused hides (counts as light armour), The Scouts)
10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
(Javelins and shields, calloused hides (counts as light armour))
10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
(Javelins and shields, calloused hides (counts as light armour))
18 Temple Guard [309 pts]
(hand weapons, halberds, and shields, scaly skin (counts as heavy armour), Revered Guardian (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)
18 Saurus Warrior [291 pts]
(Hand weapons and shields, scaly skin (counts as heavy armour), Shieldwall, Spawn Leader (champion), Standard bearer, Musician)
++ Rare Units [230 pts] ++
1 Ancient Stegadon (0-1 Stegadon or Troglodon per 1,000 points) [230 pts]
(Great horns and giant bow, Skink Crew (x5) with hand weapons and javelins (required))
---
Created with "Old World Builder"
[https://old-world-builder.com]

 

[airjamy]

I do feel 2500 is a better format then 2000 the more and more we try to bring monsters and behemoths. That or we're not intended to have them in plenty on lists like we can in AoS, which is fine but I like my Jurassic Park lists.



Sauruses, not cacti. "i" is plural for latin words (cactus), "es" is plural for greek words (saurus).

Trust me, I'm paleontologist on formation.

Well, latin does not exist in The Old World, so you know, that is not very relevant .

Yep so on the rippers, you are totally correct also this has been covered in this thread before - think I have issues with my memory. I just really want them viable! Mind you I don't think I absorbed that 3 inch swift stride was by no means the max of 6. So... yeah probably a D tier

Cupped Hands of the Old ones as mandatory... interesting I am not certain about that. Miscasts don't seem that big of a deal if you're not in a unit.



I absolutely agree with this. How is a skink and steg (SAS) more durable than a carno old blood (COB). The COB is t6 7w with a shield its a 4+ save. The SAS is t6 and 7w with a 4+ save. If anything, the COB has a higher WS and more capacity for magic items.



If that is the case then for my COB I really like just a straight meteoric iron armour with a talisman protection (or possibly the glyph necklace). 5+5+ unmodified with a great weapon... c'mon mate take your best shot and see how it works out for you... st7 might be overkill for quite a few armies though. But hell we are striking last most of the time anyway, and its only 53 points.



Sauraii

It's more fun and makes us look cool.

Edit - PS it's easy to take 2 behemoth's at 2000. Don't think you can complain about not getting 3

We could go Sauriantes? Saurae? Sauriis? I do like Sauraii as well, got to say.

Cupped hands are definitely not mandatory. Good in a meta with lots of small wizards, but with miscasts only doing a single wound now, only ever casting on 2 dice and never losing your wizard in one go from it they are a lot less impactful.

 

[discomute]

Monster Slayer does not allow Armor Saves, so that Luckstone would do nothing right. Even if it would, i think a Sword of Striking might be better if he has to go into normal guys, he cannot use a handweapon over a magical weapon sadly, even if it would be better with Obsidian Blades .

I see how Chameleons are not great. I think i will go for this, exactly 1000 points spent on characters! XD

++ Characters [1000 pts] ++
Saurus Oldblood [377 pts]
(Hand weapon, Scaly Skin (counts as heavy armor), Shield, on Carnosaur, Dragon Slaying Sword, Sword of Striking)
Skink Chief [313 pts]
(Additional hand weapon, calloused hide (counts as light armour), on Stegadon, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Talisman of Protection)
Slann Mage-Priest [310 pts]
(Hand weapon, General, Battle Standard Bearer, Elementalism)
---
Created with "Old World Builder"
[https://old-world-builder.com]

Two magic swords with an old blood? Uhhh... why?

Personally I would go:
Slann (BSB, elementalism, becalming cogitation)
COB (Armour of Meteoric Iron, Talisman of Protection, Great Weapon)
SAS (Extra Hand Weapon)

Which is 987

As for the rest there is a lot of ways to do it! Troglodon, 20 sauraii/spears/FC, 20 TG FC, 3 krox/C is 3 points over and roughly what I'd do, maybe drop a musician or model. But probably subbing the Trog for a Bastiladon/solar/crew is more sensible...

 

[airjamy]

Two magic swords with an old blood? Uhhh... why?

Personally I would go:
Slann (BSB, elementalism, becalming cogitation)
COB (Armour of Meteoric Iron, Talisman of Protection, Great Weapon)
SAS (Extra Hand Weapon)

Which is 987

As for the rest there is a lot of ways to do it! Troglodon, 20 sauraii/spears/FC, 20 TG FC, 3 krox/C is 3 points over and roughly what I'd do, maybe drop a musician or model. But probably subbing the Trog for a Bastiladon/solar/crew is more sensible...

Because the Monster Slaying sword does nothing vs normal guys and he is not allowed to use his Hand Weapon. With the 15 points i have left i think +1 to hit makes him also very decent into regular infantry along with the Stomps and attacks of the Carnosaur. His S5 needs no help, but hitting on 2s is like ok.

Maybe just extra TG, or excuse me, Sauraii, is better, or a Charmed Shield for the 6++.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Anyone else notice that the Giant Bow is no longer a Bolt Thrower. Really would've been nice for it to have the Through & Through rule

 

[airjamy]

Anyone else notice that the Giant Bow is no longer a Bolt Thrower. Really would've been nice for it to have the Through & Through rule

Yeah it would have been very strong. It definitely is a nerf. Still better than the blowpipes though I think, and it makes me think about the double Engines

 

[discomute]

Mathematically (not my strong suit) isn't a sword of striking only better than a biting blade if your opponent has zero armour? Which doesn't happen that often. And if your opponent has a 5+ save or better, then a biting blade is always better.

 

[SalMan4]

Slightly late to the party but first looks my initial pros / cons were.
Cons
1. Brutal nerfs to armour saves (scaled skill counting as HA means we'll struggle to get decent character saves)
2. Sauras are pricey, especially compared to TG and still can't take a magic standard (can now see this is quite standard across the board).
3. Stupidity with no rerolls from a BSB makes cold ones terrible. The stats and profile are awesome but only leadership 8 you'll be failing at crucial times.
4. My favourite unit salamanders leadership and price, coupled with the new template rules massively harm them.
5. Magic items are uninspiring but not terrible.
6. Changes to cold blooded rule brutal.
7. No predatory fighter, one of my favourite and fluffy rules gone.

Pros
1. Carnosaurs look fantastic and can be ridden by a scar vet (I actually think the 50point saving makes a scar vet carno the best combo!)
2. Hero characters in support of sauras / temple guard look strong.
3. Slann has fly and can get ethereal by a few means is a nice balance as he can no longer join units.
4. TG core with a slann, retain stubborn look brutal.
5. Obsidian blades all round is a nice bonus!

ive already been playing around with some combos that look like they have potential;
7/3 sauras with spears, joined by a scar vet on cold one (with named one, enchanted shield). Correct me if I'm wrong but rules indicate he can join the unit? The additional attacks, save bonus and pot to charge out old school cowboy looks solid.
6/4 temple guard with skavenpelt banner looks optimal in terms of numbers.
Slann with high magic and lore familiar, chosing sig for magic control, +1 attack and 5+ ward spells and then one of your choice looks amazing for the above.
Carno with scar vet and talisman of protection for the price is an auto-include.
2 units of scouting skinks with poison javelins for only 120pts - sign me up!

Most controversially and I'm def biased! Warming to 2 units of 2 salamanders on the flanks could actually be decent without any risk of miscast or artillery dice randomness, even with the new partial hits roll they look solid. Low leadership is a massive concern I admit.

overall I'm super excited by the Old Worlds release and great to see so much chatter on here whilst we work out how the lizzies will fit let me know if you agree / disagree with the above before it gets playtested

 

[Rimbo]

Slightly late to the party but first looks my initial pros / cons were.
Cons
1. Brutal nerfs to armour saves (scaled skill counting as HA means we'll struggle to get decent character saves)
2. Sauras are pricey, especially compared to TG and still can't take a magic standard (can now see this is quite standard across the board).
3. Stupidity with no rerolls from a BSB makes cold ones terrible. The stats and profile are awesome but only leadership 8 you'll be failing at crucial times.
4. My favourite unit salamanders leadership and price, coupled with the new template rules massively harm them.
5. Magic items are uninspiring but not terrible.
6. Changes to cold blooded rule brutal.
7. No predatory fighter, one of my favourite and fluffy rules gone.

Pros
1. Carnosaurs look fantastic and can be ridden by a scar vet (I actually think the 50point saving makes a scar vet carno the best combo!)
2. Hero characters in support of sauras / temple guard look strong.
3. Slann has fly and can get ethereal by a few means is a nice balance as he can no longer join units.
4. TG core with a slann, retain stubborn look brutal.
5. Obsidian blades all round is a nice bonus!

ive already been playing around with some combos that look like they have potential;
7/3 sauras with spears, joined by a scar vet on cold one (with named one, enchanted shield). Correct me if I'm wrong but rules indicate he can join the unit? The additional attacks, save bonus and pot to charge out old school cowboy looks solid.
6/4 temple guard with skavenpelt banner looks optimal in terms of numbers.
Slann with high magic and lore familiar, chosing sig for magic control, +1 attack and 5+ ward spells and then one of your choice looks amazing for the above.
Carno with scar vet and talisman of protection for the price is an auto-include.
2 units of scouting skinks with poison javelins for only 120pts - sign me up!

Most controversially and I'm def biased! Warming to 2 units of 2 salamanders on the flanks could actually be decent without any risk of miscast or artillery dice randomness, even with the new partial hits roll they look solid. Low leadership is a massive concern I admit.

overall I'm super excited by the Old Worlds release and great to see so much chatter on here whilst we work out how the lizzies will fit let me know if you agree / disagree with the above before it gets playtested

I think I generally agree with your pros/cons list. It's also worth mentioning that Slann is a Large Target which is a big deal, as 18 inches of General and BSB bubble is very convenient and he has LOS to units most of the time. Only 5+ Ward Save though (but saves went down across the board).

About your combos:
Scar vet on Cold One can definitely join infantry units. I think in general we will see characters in units as they die only if specifically targeted by enemy attacks, so a charging enemy has two options: allocate attacks to the character (and potentially waste them) or leave the character alone (so even if all models from the front are killed the character still gets to fight back).

While the prospect of 18 attacks from TG with skavenpelt banner is certainly appealing I think Frenzy special rule might be too easy to exploit by the opponent.

Finally, I wish sallies were good this edition (along with razordons), but as you say low LD (and inability to benefit from Inspiring Presence/ Hold your Ground) really holds them back. Well, in case of razordons the damage output is also mediocre, so there is that. Sallies have some damage potential, but Panic on Ld 5 (even with Cold Blooded) isn't ideal. Also, there is no Cold Blooded for Rally, so when Panicked they are most likely lost. Anyway, please post how they fare if you ever try them.

 

[discomute]

If a magic item gave +1WS, +1A and +1W for 50 points, I think it would be a pretty good one. So not sure about the scar vet over the old blood. But if you are short of points, yep.

 

[Explodingzeb]

Has anyone else noticed that you can't legally fit 2 Ancient Stegadons with EotG in a 2000pt list, so can't even use the Arcane Configuration rule in a standard game. That feels like either the rule should read that you only need 1 EotG for it to work, or they upped the points of the unit after decided the rules and didn't notice that it pushed the cost of 2 up to 510pts.

 

[discomute]

Has anyone else noticed that you can't legally fit 2 Ancient Stegadons with EotG in a 2000pt list, so can't even use the Arcane Configuration rule in a standard game. That feels like either the rule should read that you only need 1 EotG for it to work, or they upped the points of the unit after decided the rules and didn't notice that it pushed the cost of 2 up to 510pts.

Can't you put it in your character allowance with a priest?

 

[discomute]

What magic does everyone like? Elementalism?

I really like Earthen Ramparts - I like the idea of casting it on the ripperducks to prevent their impetuous!

 

[Explodingzeb]

Can't you put it in your character allowance with a priest?

Ah, true enough. Completely forgot you could do that for a second haha. Still, it'd be nice if they'd knocked 5pts off the price so you could just fit 2 in rare.