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AoS NEW *rumor*

Acehilator said:
Ah right, I wanted to math these guys.

10 Chargers melee: 6.67 from lances, 8.89 from bites, 15.56 total - when fighting on objectives, 22.23 (yikes!) And none of their damage is contingent on actually charging, which is a bit weird for a cavalry unit having "charge" in their name, but I take it.

5 Hunters ranged: 2.1 (oh my)
5 Charger melee with Cold-Blooded Unity: 4.4 from lances, 5.56 from bites, 9.96 total - when fighting on objectives, 14.44
5 Hunter ranged with Deadly Cohesion: 2.1 (oh my oh my)
damage for mixed group: 14.17 total - when fighting on objectives, 18.62

5 Hunter joining the charge: 1.25 from clubs, 5.56 from bites, 6.81 total (not advisable because of activation problems, just for completion's sake)
total damage in this case (if both units survive to strike, lol): 18.89/25.43

Conclusion: Hunters DOA, Deadly Cohesion rule = game design fail. Running five Hunters to increase the damage of 10 Chargers is still not worth it given how fast the Chargers are going to die.
Click to expand...


I ran the numbers, and got different ones for the chargers, so I checked both our work to see what was wrong, and I think I found it. The chargers come out a lot better than you calculated, because the lances and fangs each have 3 attacks, not 2!

So a unit of 10 chargers has 31 lance attacks (with the alpha) and 30 fang attacks. That gives them a base average damage of 23.67, or 34 on a contested objective! And at rend -1.

A unit of 5 chargers comes out at 12, or 17.33 contested. Even that's really good for lightning fast skink calvary.

As for the hunters, I agree they don't fare as well, but while supporting chargers, they're not completely worthless. A unit of 5 has 11 attacks (alpha again), so will do a base damage of 2.8. It's at rend -2 so it can even put a scratch in tough enemies, but it is only a scratch. But with Deadly Cohesion, they can fire twice, so that bumps it up to 5.6. Add in Cold-blooded Unity and they will add another 1.8 to a unit of 5 Chargers' damage, or 3.4 damage to 10 chargers. I'm going to tack it on to the hunters, though, because I'm evaluating if they're worth the points. So that's an additional 7.4 damage this turn from the hunters (or 8.9 with 10 chargers), all at -2 or -1 rend. If the chargers are contesting an objective, instead of boosting them with 1.8 extra damage, they would add 3.6 extra damage to 5 chargers (or 6.9 to 10 chargers), for a total of 9.2 damage for the turn (or 12.4 with 10 chargers), at decent rend. Oh, and the 10 chargers don't have to be in the same unit. If two units of 5 chargers both target the unit that the hunters shot at (even if they did no damage), both units of chargers get the +1 to hit. Heck, the hunters could even split their shooting attack between two different units if the charger units want to attack different units. So it may be prudent to support multiple units of chargers with one unit of hunters.

9 or 12 extra damage in a turn can be pretty significant. Especially because this can be done without putting the hunters into melee, so they don't immediately get slaughtered and can still act as a fast (move 12") screen later on. But as I write this, it occurs to me that the point of hunters may not to be to do direct damage, but that their main purpose may be to buff the chargers. They can buff all the chargers in one large unit, or all the chargers in multiple units. They can buff chargers attacking one unit, or one or more units of chargers attacking multiple units. And the hunters don't even need to hit those units; they just need to target them.

Are hunters worth 150 points? I'm not sure. At first glance, it seems like another unit of chargers for the same cost would nearly always be better. But if one unit of hunters can buff so many chargers reliably and for free, and maybe do some damage of their own, they might just be worth the cost. After all, us Seraphon players are all too familiar with bringing a skink priest or starpriest mostly to buff other troops. But it does seem like the more chargers you have, the more value you will get out of each unit of hunters.
 
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Ordered the box to my nearest store + got another box of ×10 Saurus for £31.99 on ebay.
 
Is the preorder box available? I can't find it anywhere
 
Goonhammer has a series of articles on the battletome now, confirming some stuff left out of the leaked rules. Nimble Warleader command trait for Starborne skinks gives a once per battle boost to all units with the Skink keyword in a 18″ bubble so they have a 2D6″ run, which is probably good sometimes.

We also keep the Thunderquake battalion from the WD update (Stegadon Chief + 2 bastiladon of some variety, with optional slots for 2 krox, 1 EotG and 1 chotec) but the Swift/Slayer bonus isn't that great compared to other battalions you could be using. The battle tactics and grand strategies are also mostly new, they're nice

Noxolotl said:
I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but here's a look at some stuff from the new set.
https://taleofpainters.com/2023/04/review-seraphon-army-set/
Click to expand...

I'm a little unreasonably excited about those little skink attendants on the slann, I've always kept my eye out for someone selling the one on Kroak and now there's two more characterful little guys to slap onto other models. I'm going to have to bite the bullet to buy a slann anyway at some point, so there's so many options for them
 
Just A Skink said:
A bit of updated and/or retconned Seraphon lore.
https://www.warhammer-community.com...aced-by-the-seraphon-in-the-era-of-the-beast/
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Most of it isn't really new until the last three paragraphs or so, but it's interesting that Kroak is becoming more active both in the realms and as a leader of the slann, though I guess that's just continuing the trend set up in Broken Realms and stuff since. The idea that Slann have a level of respect enough for the Draconith that they include them in conversation about stuff like the incarnates is really interesting, I guess it's particularly relevant to them because the first ones began appearing in their ancestral homelands though, but Skinks attributing religious reverence to them and seeing ones manifesting in the likeness of old ones is a very fun little bit of worldbuilding.
 
Vallis said:
I ran the numbers, and got different ones for the chargers, so I checked both our work to see what was wrong, and I think I found it. The chargers come out a lot better than you calculated, because the lances and fangs each have 3 attacks, not 2!

So a unit of 10 chargers has 31 lance attacks (with the alpha) and 30 fang attacks. That gives them a base average damage of 23.67, or 34 on a contested objective! And at rend -1.

A unit of 5 chargers comes out at 12, or 17.33 contested. Even that's really good for lightning fast skink calvary.
*snip*.
Click to expand...

My calculations are including a 4+ armor save, no ward. I forgot the bonus attack from the unit champions, but that doesn't really change much.

And sure, a unit of Hunters is 100% worth it if you are running 20 Chargers. Question is, do you want to invest 600 points into melee units with a 5+ armor save? I'm a 100% sure I don't. Obviously you can use Shield and All out Defense, but the worst part is the opportunity cost of not being able to use those defensive buffs on other units with a better base save, that profit more from further improvements to their defense.
 
I’m not sure how many people play path to glory, but according to this review it seems like we’ve got a bunch of new and fun mechanics for it. A territory that gives all armies the dracothion’s tail subfaction ability (and makes dracothion’s tail armies generate the starborne summoning points when they use it) sounds like it’s a lot of fun
 
The Earth Trembles, the new Coalesced Slann spell, didn't impress me much. You draw a line from the caster to any corner of the table, and every enemy unit on that line takes D3 mortal wounds on a 4+.

But it just occurred occurred to me that you can draw a line from any corner to any eligible Arcane Vassal, so that does give it a lot more flexibility at least.
 
Some more photos of the battletome available here, though it's just the painting and Warscroll Battalion section of the book so not a huge amount that's interesting, beyond little lore tidbits like Kruleboyz attempts to sneak up on temple-cities getting foiled by Skink and Kroxigor's love of lounging around in swamps and rivers or Chotec-blessed seraphon hating Tzeentch the most for his unholy use of fire

Vallis said:
The Earth Trembles, the new Coalesced Slann spell, didn't impress me much. You draw a line from the caster to any corner of the table, and every enemy unit on that line takes D3 mortal wounds on a 4+.

But it just occurred occurred to me that you can draw a line from any corner to any eligible Arcane Vassal, so that does give it a lot more flexibility at least.
Click to expand...

I think it'll see use because of that and it being the only damaging spell that Coalesced Slann have access to, though probably less than Telepathic Summons (unless it gets FAQ-ed to not allow you to tp into combat) and Empowered Celestite since you're having to be a lot more selective about it with coalesced slann unable to swap them out like Starborne ones can.
 
Vallis said:
The Earth Trembles, the new Coalesced Slann spell, didn't impress me much. You draw a line from the caster to any corner of the table, and every enemy unit on that line takes D3 mortal wounds on a 4+.

But it just occurred occurred to me that you can draw a line from any corner to any eligible Arcane Vassal, so that does give it a lot more flexibility at least.
Click to expand...
Unless you're opponent is kindly going to line up for you, you're still regularly going to find yourself in situations where max 1 or 2 enemies can be hit though. It's significantly worse than Comet call in that sense.

Honestly the only reason it'll probably see use is because it's the only damage spell coalesced slann get, so it's not like they have much of a choice.
 
Empowered Celestite is the must-take for Slann spells in Coalesced. If you want anything else, you need to use Master of the Material Plane as a command trait. Which is fine, but incurs a serious opportunity cost of not being able to use a Saurus trait.
 
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