AoS How is 3rd Edition going so far?

[Erta Wanderer]

As somewhat of an outsider to the purely competitive scene, it appears to me that the game is balanced around competitive play. I do think that army usage rates should be factored in though. We know for example that a really popular army can have a much lower winrate despite being strong simply due to the number of less experienced players running that army. While an army with objectively weaker rules can have a higher winrate if the fewer people playing that army are really, really good at it.

agreed this is why we discount very low representation(there was a point when the first ed BOC book shot up 40% due to a very good player) and also take into account placement in events.

I think Gitz is a primary example. Most people who are good at the game won't have much trouble beating Gitz. But the players who aren't as experienced will be surprised when facing a good Gitz player. So to my point of view win rate can be somewhat misleading but it's still an important metric to look at.

win rates are not based around all games played they are based around tournament games so you don't have to worry about lack of skill forcing a loss as most(not all) games used have a base level of skill.

If an army is popular and has a consistently high winrate (looking at you, Tzeentch!) then it's pretty safe to say that army is probably a bit OP. If an army is consistently below average or at the bottom then you can reasonably assume that army is probably lacking in some ways.

pretty much yeah

 

[Putzfrau]

Just thought I'd throw this out here, in case people still think Seraphon are OP

Of course that will probably change when the new book comes out.

Womp womp yep seraphon is in the pits right now!

Mix of just all the nerfs finally catching up them and all the players that were getting our best results have moved off them.

If we didn't have a new book around the corner it would be a sad state of things but instead we have lots to look forward to!

Like scaly skin and unlimited range unbinds not changing *fingers crossed* hehehehe

 

[Killer Angel]

Dude, as long as you refuse to accept that the only difference between a competitive player and non-competitive player is how they approach the game,

not going to except what isn't true, competitive players regularly put hundreds if not thousands of hours more into a thing they study it they practice it they CARE more about it.

Well, "competitive" is a mindset.
Sometime it means deep knowledge of the game and of its mechanics.
Sometime it just means that you copy & paste lists from the internet not because you know them but because you want to be on top. You may non autowin, but you certainly verge toward a competitive approach.
Sometime it's to sell your army to buy the current new OP one because the new rules are the strongest available.
Sometime is just to spam the most powerful unit/s available to a certain army, and it works because of mere superior stats.

 

[VikingRage]

Well, "competitive" is a mindset.
Sometime it means deep knowledge of the game and of its mechanics.
Sometime it just means that you copy & paste lists from the internet not because you know them but because you want to be on top. You may non autowin, but you certainly verge toward a competitive approach.
Sometime it's to sell your army to buy the current new OP one because the new rules are the strongest available.
Sometime is just to spam the most powerful unit/s available to a certain army, and it works because of mere superior stats.

Agreed, I think competitive minded players are a much broader category than some have realized. I barely get any games in, and I don't have the time to devote hours (days-weeks) to learning the current meta, what rules changed for other armies, etc., but I make a point of approaching each table with the long game in my head (troop placement, tracking buffs, setting up avenues for my opponents to take objectives or real estate so I can trap them or converge on them there later). I appreciate that the game is balanced with that mindset in place.

I used to play competively in other systems, and it translated very easily to AoS too. It also lets me know how to scale back my lists for casual games if that is what me and my opponent are there for.

It is much easier to self regulate for a casual game landscape than to do so for tournament settings. For better or worse, tournament play is also a big part of what keeps the lights on for GW. I am slowly collecting everything in the Seraphon range, but active competitive players either buy every everywhere all at once (haha, snuck that in) or they keep jumping from army to army, so I get where GW is coming from focusing energy to that section of players.

 

[Dread Saurian]

we are basically playing a blue deck even if we wish we where playing a green deck

Hey now I think we're are definitely naya instead of just blue. We got some big stompy. We got healing. We have absolute offensive might and can take the initiate easily with our faction rules

 

[Dread Saurian]

Womp womp yep seraphon is in the pits right now!

Mix of just all the nerfs finally catching up them and all the players that were getting our best results have moved off them.

If we didn't have a new book around the corner it would be a sad state of things but instead we have lots to look forward to!

Like scaly skin and unlimited range unbinds not changing *fingers crossed* hehehehe

I want one thing changed on scaly skin. I want it to be -1 damage to everything. Fuck mortal wounds!

 

[Dread Saurian]

Well, "competitive" is a mindset.
Sometime it means deep knowledge of the game and of its mechanics.
Sometime it just means that you copy & paste lists from the internet not because you know them but because you want to be on top. You may non autowin, but you certainly verge toward a competitive approach.
Sometime it's to sell your army to buy the current new OP one because the new rules are the strongest available.
Sometime is just to spam the most powerful unit/s available to a certain army, and it works because of mere superior stats.

I've read about this guy in mathbooks!

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Hey now I think we're are definitely naya instead of just blue. We got some big stompy.

correction, we have cheep stompy it isn't really all that big

We got healing.

i suppose. we have one very bad healing spell that is outclassed by the generic heroic action that every one has.

We have absolute offensive might

our damage is comparatively very weak. our best in book combo is 12 damage on average

 

[Killer Angel]

our damage is comparatively very weak. our best in book combo is 12 damage on average

We should define "combo" and target's save, because a fully buffed stegadon chief delivers much more than that.
What are you thinking to?

 

[Erta Wanderer]

We should define "combo" and target's save, because a fully buffed stegadon chief delivers much more than that.
What are you thinking to?

skinks or knights with star venom. yes steg chief can put out more but at a much higher investment.

 

[Killer Angel]

skinks or knights with star venom.

ah, yes. then i agree.
passable units but too many things that outshine them.

 

[Aralgmad]

I really hope that the new book is helping me finally beat Kruleboys. Invisible,magic immune MW shooters is quite difficult to manage.

 

[Killer Angel]

I really hope that the new book is helping me finally beat Kruleboys. Invisible,magic immune MW shooters is quite difficult to manage.

It's still too soon to be said.

Anyway, welcome to Lustruia Online!
It's not mandatory, but if you want to introduce yourself...

 

[Kilvakar]

I haven't had that much trouble with Kruleboyz to be honest. They're very, very swingy with their mortal wound mechanics. Either they roll lots of 6s and they just melt you without you being able to do anything about it, or they don't roll 6s and you wipe them.

Playing as and against Kruleboyz is more luck-based than just about any faction since their entire faction mechanics are mostly slot machine-style. You either win big or you lose big.

 

[Vexcor]

i have seen my first battle report with our new book yesterday.
it was a spell heavy list draco tail with summoning in mind.
opponent was destruction with a lot of trolls. trolls went first and that saved them from totally anilhilation.

we talking about kroak, slann, astrolith bearer and starpriest.
starpriest teleported forward and kroak plus slann went havoc.
he summoned nearly 600pts of units in the game, i think it was 10 warriors, 10 skinks, 5 raptodon chargers and something i cant remember.
in his list where already 2x5 raptodon chargers and they hit hard man! even without buffs!
what a slaughter party. kroak did on average 24MW per turn! they had a lot of ward saves but damn.

 

[Acehilator]

Yeah Kroak is getting a +50 at least. Or even one of the rare Warscroll changes. No idea what they were thinking.

 

[Vallis]

i have seen my first battle report with our new book yesterday.
it was a spell heavy list draco tail with summoning in mind.
opponent was destruction with a lot of trolls. trolls went first and that saved them from totally anilhilation.

we talking about kroak, slann, astrolith bearer and starpriest.
starpriest teleported forward and kroak plus slann went havoc.
he summoned nearly 600pts of units in the game, i think it was 10 warriors, 10 skinks, 5 raptodon chargers and something i cant remember.
in his list where already 2x5 raptodon chargers and they hit hard man! even without buffs!
what a slaughter party. kroak did on average 24MW per turn! they had a lot of ward saves but damn.

24MW per turn is about what Kroak should average if he successfully casts Celestial Deliverance 4 times (on a modified 4+ on 2D6 with the Astrolith Bearer).

And those Raptadon Chargers can really dish it out too!

Did you use the Raptadon Hunters? If so, how'd that work out? They seem somewhat mediocre unless supporting multiple units of Chargers.

 

[Vexcor]

24MW per turn is about what Kroak should average if he successfully casts Celestial Deliverance 4 times (on a modified 4+ on 2D6 with the Astrolith Bearer).

And those Raptadon Chargers can really dish it out too!

Did you use the Raptadon Hunters? If so, how'd that work out? They seem somewhat mediocre unless supporting multiple units of Chargers.

i didnt use anything, i saw the video and no, there where no Hunters, just the chargers.
really interesting what this raptodons can do, maybe a fangs of sotek list with a lot of them and redeploy stuff can be strong.
maybe a heavy mobile list could make our opponents a difficult time. reapers got a little dmg buff, combined with raptordons and some normal skinks
and for the icing on the cake a unit of kroxigor warspawnd .... sounds funny

 

[Just A Skink]

i have seen my first battle report with our new book yesterday.
it was a spell heavy list draco tail with summoning in mind.
opponent was destruction with a lot of trolls. trolls went first and that saved them from totally anilhilation.

we talking about kroak, slann, astrolith bearer and starpriest.
starpriest teleported forward and kroak plus slann went havoc.
he summoned nearly 600pts of units in the game, i think it was 10 warriors, 10 skinks, 5 raptodon chargers and something i cant remember.
in his list where already 2x5 raptodon chargers and they hit hard man! even without buffs!
what a slaughter party. kroak did on average 24MW per turn! they had a lot of ward saves but damn.

To be fair, while Kroak & Slann were spell powerhouses, the battle was still close at something like 24-21 points. The Trolls pretty much wrecked anything they fought. Just saying that Seraphon didn't exactly "run away" with a win.

 

[Lambs and Lions]

To be fair, while Kroak & Slann were spell powerhouses, the battle was still close at something like 24-21 points. The Trolls pretty much wrecked anything they fought. Just saying that Seraphon didn't exactly "run away" with a win.

I saw the report and the lists. It was both of their first times playing the lists. So I am sure there are a lot of little tricks both players missed or didn't know about.

The spell spam list is very strong and shines at killing off small units and buffing heroes. But it really sucks at killing anything with a high number of wounds and a ward save. That's why the troll boss just walked through the army. What is spell spam going to do against Giants or khorne or teclis? Those seem like hard counters to the spell spam list.