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8th Ed. Only the 8th...

NIGHTBRINGER said:
Stark was proven overall to be correct by the end of Infinity War and the start of End Game. And then it was Stark who was most responsible for fixing things (creation of time travel and the climactic snap). Cap helped, no doubt, but Stark was easily the more valuable team member.

It always reminds me of this:

bd9ef7c8daef7ac1b2283bd787fbccf784164bc1_hq.jpg


Cap had courage and a big heart, but without the Super Soldier serum (which he had no part in creating) he would have been nothing. He owes his abilities to the Stark family. Tony created his suits of armour. While undoubtedly aided by his father (inherited wealth, the outline for the creation of a new element), Tony was still a self made hero. Tony can perfect time travel and is responsible for countless technical innovations, while Captain America can throw a shield very well. Brains > Brawn
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Hear hear - as I see it, Tony is by far the most valuable/important character in the MCU
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Stark was proven overall to be correct by the end of Infinity War and the start of End Game.

Brains > Brawn
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THat's absolutely true, even if we could also say that brain sometime put us in danger much more than brawn (see Ultron)

But that was not my point, i was just saying that from a moral pov they were both right and wrong in civil war, which is what makes the story so compelling.
 
Killer Angel said:
even if we could also say that brain sometime put us in danger much more than brawn (see Ultron)

But that was not my point, i was just saying that from a moral pov they were both right and wrong in civil war, which is what makes the story so compelling.
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I'd agree that they both had moral standing in Civil War, at least in the short term. In the long term though, Stark's fears and vision were proven to be correct. Additionally, while he did take risks that had unfortunate consequences (Ultron), the events of Infinity War and Endgame ultimately justified his course of action. The heroes of the story would have been better off following his lead.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
uagnd5up18w71.jpg
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To be honest either playing 7th and forcing Daemons to use the Warriors spell lores like in 8th (as they toned down the magic for the Warriors book after seeing what happened with Daemons) and restricting Dark Elves from using their Power Dice-spamming spell, or playing 8th with some boosts applied to the underpowered armies are both fine ways to play the game. Neither Edition is difficult to tweak to achieve a strong balance without sacrificing the fun parts (indeed I cross-associate balance with fun).

Warhammer Armies Project is no longer a valid way to play 8th Edition - like the Ninth Age before him, Eliasson has been drawn into making his own Ninth Edition and has dropped all support for his 8th army books. Something I'm in a lot of ways pleased about because it means my 8th Edition army lists no longer need to compete with his.

NIGHTBRINGER said:
I know, and it makes sense, as AoS is the "current" system.

I did think of it. However, keep in mind that:
  • Stark was outnumbered 2 to 1
  • Stark actually had the battle won, but refused to kill Cap, which gave Cap the chance to turn the tide
  • by the end of phase 3 (Infinity War and Endgame) it turns out that Stark was right and Cap was wrong. They then needed Stark to save the day!
So I think the meme works as is. AoS "won", but WFB is the correct system (proven by Total War Warhammer's popularity) and in the end, they bring back WFB in the form of ToW to save the day!
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In other words, AoS won the battle of 2015, but TOW will likely help Warhammer Fantasy to win the war. Something I can definitely get behind.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
I'd agree that they both had moral standing in Civil War, at least in the short term. In the long term though, Stark's fears and vision were proven to be correct.
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In the movies you're absolutely right, in the comic series there is always a shadow, the fear that in the long term, Cap's fears would become real.
I don’t even remember if the movie treated the issue of scheduled superheroes, under government's control, that could slowly turn into elite squads that stop follow the idea of justice, and just follow the SHIELD's agenda
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
I know, and it makes sense, as AoS is the "current" system.

I did think of it. However, keep in mind that:
  • Stark was outnumbered 2 to 1
  • Stark actually had the battle won, but refused to kill Cap, which gave Cap the chance to turn the tide
  • by the end of phase 3 (Infinity War and Endgame) it turns out that Stark was right and Cap was wrong. They then needed Stark to save the day!
So I think the meme works as is. AoS "won", but WFB is the correct system (proven by Total War Warhammer's popularity) and in the end, they bring back WFB in the form of ToW to save the day!
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Wait... how was Stark "right" based on Civil War?
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
In other words, AoS won the battle of 2015, but TOW will likely help Warhammer Fantasy to win the war. Something I can definitely get behind.
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Time will tell I suppose.

Personally I'm happy with focusing on the retired but reliable 8th edition WFB. I have no interest in jumping on board with GW's hyper-aggressive (bordering on pay-to-win) release schedule.
 
Killer Angel said:
In the movies you're absolutely right, in the comic series there is always a shadow, the fear that in the long term, Cap's fears would become real.
I don’t even remember if the movie treated the issue of scheduled superheroes, under government's control, that could slowly turn into elite squads that stop follow the idea of justice, and just follow the SHIELD's agenda
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Fair enough. I was discussing the topic purely from the vantage point of the MCU.

Just A Skink said:
Wait... how was Stark "right" based on Civil War?
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My claim was that he was right based on the events of Infinity War and Endgame...

upload_2022-11-10_10-17-35.png


Stark's ideas were informed by long term thinking/planning. He saw what others did not. He was focused on the greater threat and was willing to take risks and accept consequences to protect against the much more dangerous evil lurking around the corner.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
My claim was that he was right based on the events of Infinity War and Endgame...

View attachment 123715


Stark's ideas were informed by long term thinking/planning. He saw what others did not. He was focused on the greater threat and was willing to take risks and accept consequences to protect against the much more dangerous evil lurking around the corner.
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Okay. This isn't really the thread to discuss this, but I'm at least more clear on where you're coming from.
 
Just A Skink said:
This isn't really the thread to discuss this
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I find some of the very best forum discussions are those that form spontaneously (in the wrong thread). You are correct though. Poor @Lizards of Renown will return to the forum only to find his beloved thread sidetracked.

Killer Angel said:
We could say the previous MCU phase was the 8th, infinity war was the End Times, and now we're witnessing AoS... :angelic:
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Likening AoS to phase 4 of the M-SHE-U... that's savage! Even I wouldn't go that far. :p

 
I feel I should probably move to the inner circle. Although my preferred mass battle game is 8th, I have a weekly DnD session, am massively into bloodbowl (have played non stop since 2nd edition, even in the 'wilderness years'), also play 40k occasionally and Heroquest (normal with the kids and Advanced HQ with some mates). I also dabble a bit in KOW, though not that often and will be trying out another fantasy ruleset called Fantastic Battles. I'm also just starting to rebuild some warmaster armies.
 
Knoffles said:
I feel I should probably move to the inner circle. Although my preferred mass battle game is 8th, I have a weekly DnD session, am massively into bloodbowl (have played non stop since 2nd edition, even in the 'wilderness years'), also play 40k occasionally and Heroquest (normal with the kids and Advanced HQ with some mates). I also dabble a bit in KOW, though not that often and will be trying out another fantasy ruleset called Fantastic Battles. I'm also just starting to rebuild some warmaster armies.
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10-4 big guy. You’re still one of the Knights and we’re glad to have you.
 
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