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8th Ed. Only the 8th...

Lizards of Renown said:
Ah I see, they correspond to each other. Cool!

So (for anyone who has already weighed in on this thread), which knight are you?

1. Sacred Knights of the Divine Order (Those playing exclusively WFB 8th)

2. Inner Circle Knights (Those whose primary game is WFB 8th but play other games as well)

3. Questing Knights (Those who play 8th edition equally among many other games)

4. Knights (Those who only dabble in 8th edition)

:D

I'll then update my first post.
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According to this ranking, I would be Questing Knight, as I thought in my original post, rather than Grail or Sacred Knight, as I play 8th Edition Fantasy and 6th Edition 40K roughly equally (meaning 8th doesn't count as my 'primary' game), and Middle Earth and SPQR less often (though in SPQR's case this is mainly because I wanted to finish painting all the initial models I bought and built, which will take a fair old time :D). In terms of my rules writing I could be considered a Grail Knight as I've easily written the most fan-made rules for 8th Edition Fantasy (with two draft lists published and a couple of proper army books in the works too), though I've been doing a lot for SPQR lately and in the past have done some for 6th Edition 40K (which I plan to resume at some point in the future).
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
Perhaps I'd be a Questing Knight, in that I am always questing to find and/or devise rules to get 8th Edition just that bit closer toward covering its flaws and achieving perfection...
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This may stray a bit from this thread's topic, but I'd be interested to hear what's your take on the biggest flaws of the 8th. And if you have found or invented any good ways to circumvent them without changing the game too much, and not gimping any specific armies or playstyles?
 
Neersh said:
This may stray a bit from this thread's topic, but I'd be interested to hear what's your take on the biggest flaws of the 8th. And if you have found or invented any good ways to circumvent them without changing the game too much, and not gimping any specific armies or playstyles?
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:D

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I have a selection I posted on EEFL a while back, with added recommended fixes:
  • Personally, I really dislike the Horde rule, principally because from what I could see it was simply a money-grabbing scheme employed by GW to prompt players to feel forced to buy lots more models to bulk their units out just so that their armies can remain competitive. I can understand it if the rule was explicitly only given to 'light' infantry units like Goblins, Skaven and State Troopers, as it gives them a way to overcome their poor quality, but it looks particularly ridiculous when used in elite units like Chaos Warriors and Hammerers, because if so many models in those units can be mustered, they no longer then represent the 'elite' compared to their ordinary brethren (aside from profile differences of course). Also hordes gave rise to the near-unbeatable infantry deathstars. I always liked the maximum viable unit size of 25 infantry, maybe 30 if you're pushing it, in 7th Edition, and my units remain at those sizes largely for that reason, but 8th works equally well for these too which is a relief Recommended Fix: Disallow the Horde bonus. I do this anyway when playing 8th and it works fine.
  • The fact they sacrificed the viability of non-Monstrous Cavalry in favour of infantry sucks. They should have given some decent mechanic to cavalry as well to balance out the two troop types, instead it's been a history of never getting that balance quite right. Recommended Fix: Giving all cavalry Impact Hits (1) would make a whole lot of sense if anybody's played the Total War games. Gives them a bit more hitting power with little risk of making units broken.
  • I don't like premeasuring, other than for essential situations like checking when rules like Frenzy and triggering Fanatics occur. Recommended Fix: Not premeasuring unless it's required to do so! I do this anyway when playing 8th and it works fine.
  • The balance isn't bad in friendly gameplay for the most part, but the competitive scene really shows the dark side of this edition, in particular the idea that some armies have real trouble beating others, and it's unbelievable GW didn't suspect there was something wrong (Warriors of Chaos, I'm looking at you again, and Dak Elves too). The fact that GW conveniently chose to avoid giving Beastmen and Bretonnia 8th Edition releases, yet Dark Elves and Warriors of Chaos both got two (one with the book and another with additional models), and to give Tomb Kings their 8th book early on as a guinea pig so they could revise the undead magic for their Vampire Counts book later rather whiffs of faction bias (alongside the fact they gave Vampires a 7th Edition book yet didn't for Tomb Kings). Not to mention the clear absence of support for Chaos Dwarfs bar a piddly Forge World micro-list. Fortunately given the game has now passed into the hands of us fans, it means we can provide erratas and even updated books for armies that are suffering to fix some of the worst mistakes GW made, but the fact that we seem to be doing a better job of it than GW ever did shows they need to work on that part of their games development business (though very recently they've started releasing free PDFs that actively balance factions that have developed an OP streak in 40K and AoS, meaning maybe they've finally cracked it). Recommended Fix: I assume by 'gimping' you mean nerfing? Because if so I will keep nerfing to a minimum, because I wouldn't be best pleased if any of my armies were nerfed for no good reason and don't want to provoke that feeling in anyone else. However I will not stand for Beastmen, Bretonnia and Skaven to go without 8th Edition books so am writing my own (because I CAN), and Greenskins and Tomb Kings are also struggling so deserve a little boost to level the playing field a bit more, and will be given an erratum each. All other factions will be left pretty much as they are.
  • Personally I thought changing magic items so that they were mostly generic and each race only had a few unique items was a step backwards, boring and less thematic. At least I can still make unique runic items for my Dwarfs, but all other factions that got an 8th Ed book suffer from this. Recommended Fix: Using the Magic Item lists from the complete set of 7th/6th Edition books and the 7th Edition rulebook before the first 8th army book was published, suitably errata'd, except for Dwarfs whose Runic Item mechanic was preserved? Certainly I think that would be less risky than devising new replacement sets of rulebook and army book magic items.
  • A more recent one I've thought of is the fact that 8th made casting magic uniform for all the factions, compared to 6th, and to a lesser extent 7th, where some factions had different ways of casting magic (Tomb Kings had entirely Bound Spells, Ogres knew all their spells but the casting value of a spell doubled each time it was cast, Greenskins having their own Miscast chart in 7th e.t.c). Again I think this was a step backwards and sacrificed some of the fun nuances about the different factions. Recommended Fix: I've been thinking about how this could be done for a while, using 8th Ed magic rules but spicing up things like Magic Dice generation, Channelling, Miscast charts, e.t.c for different races to make the gaming experience for each race more unique. For instance, I like the idea of races where casters are always trying to outdo each other (Warriors of Chaos, Skaven) each rolling 1D6, (1D3 when dispelling) to generate their own pool and only being able to use dice from their own pool to cast and dispel, with Skaven wizards being able to scoff Warpstone Tokens to boost their casting values (at the risk of getting a more entertaining result on the Miscast Table if they get Irresistible Force) and Chaos Sorcerers getting casting bonuses from their own Eye of the Gods table if they please the gods by doing well, and penalties on an Ire of the Gods table if they mess it up. Tomb Kings getting all bound spells again and Ogres knowing all their spells but doubling the casting value of a spell each time it is cast are also fun things from 6th Edition that would be great to bring back. Well, with all my talk of balancing units I have to do something else to make my revised edition of the game fun and stop it going a la 9th Age.
  • Bound spells were made pretty much pointless other than giving you a bit more choice on what to cast. Recommended Fix: Return the Bound Spell rules from 7th Edition.
  • I'm in two minds about the re-roll to failed hit rolls granted by ASF. On one hand it helps to balance regular Elven units who have to put up with Strength 3 and poor armour in return, but on the other elite units like Witch Elves and Black Guard and characters like the Vampire 'Blender lord' abuse this mechanic to high heaven. I wouldn't shed many tears if this was removed. Recommended Fix: Ditch that part of the rule, and replace the High Elves' current Martial Prowess rule with being able to re-roll failed hit rolls in combat if the opponent's initiative is less than that of the High Elf unit. Dark Elves have units that can spam attacks so they don't need the re-roll to be effective, and Wood Elves shouldn't be in combat anyway.
  • Cannons were too strong. Recommended Fix: Using the 7th Edition Rules, but keeping the Multiple Wounds value as D6. I do this anyway when playing 8th and it works fine.
  • Skirmishing wasn't Skirmishing but Open Order in this edition, which made little sense. Recommended Fix: Use the 7th Edition rules for Skirmishers. I do this anyway when playing 8th and it works fine.
  • Not getting anything for charging except a measly +1 combat resolution gives you much less reason to charge except if you inflict Impact Hits. Recommended Fix: Allowing chargers to strike first again on the turn they reach combat, as per 7th Edition.
  • Chariots not being able to march is pretty darn stupid given in actual history they could move at a walk and a gallop as per normal cavalry. I understand taking the weight of the chariot into account, but to nerf them that much is going too far. Recommended Fix: Allowing Chariots to march, but at a -1 penalty to the steeds' Movement to represent the weight of the cab. I do this anyway when playing 8th and it works fine.
  • Actual Miscasts being wiped from the game completely and the 'Miscast Table' only being used to determine the after-effects of Irresistible Force irk my sense of perfectionism no end. Recommended Fix: Changing the name of 'Miscast Table' to something like 'Unlimited Power' table, any name that has more to do with irresistible magical power rather than bungling your spell. The alternative would be to bring Miscasts back, use the Miscast Table for it and do something else with Irresistible Force, but that would change the game too much. Let's face it, my previous changes have already changed the game enough...;)
  • One nerf I would make is to return Leadbelchers to their 6th Edition shooting rules, because it makes very little sense that Ogres who have stolen other races' cannons can never misfire, yet even Dwarf artillery can. I noticed the 6th Edition rules get them to roll an artillery dice each, which makes more sense and gives added comedy whenever one of them inflicts D6 Strength 4 hits on their own unit as a result of misfiring. I don't think they should suffer Panic tests as a result of such casualties, as an addendum, because I imagine they would have realised by now that such wounds are an occupational hazard with mucking about with guns made by other races. Sorry @Lizards of Renown to bring such a nerf up buddy, but I'm concerned at just how lethal Leadbelchers are at shooting in 8th. A bit too lethal for my liking.
 
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Just A Skink said:
I can't think of a better reply from you, sir. Well done. ;)
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Star Wars has ruined my brain! It's amazing how instantaneously that reply popped into my mind.

In all seriousness, one should be able to Google something along the lines of Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition rule book PDF and find a copy to download directly or via a torrent... if one were so inclined (not that I'm recommending or endorsing such a thing :angelic:).
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Star Wars has ruined my brain!
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I wouldn't say 'ruined'... more 'enlightened' when it comes to Prequel quotes, given that my brain is in the same condition :D

@Just A Skink I know just the place. I realise forum rules state that sharing rules publicly is not allowed for copyright reasons, so PM me and I'll provide you with the link, if mainly just to save time that would otherwise be spent searching through Google for a decent copy.
 
Lizards of Renown said:
A recent post by Nightbringer got me wondering.

Who only plays 8th Edition on this site?

(Anyone from the Eighth Edition for Life thread is welcome to weigh in! :D )

SO FAR:

1. Sacred Knights of the Divine Order (Those playing exclusively WFB 8th)

Myself, @NIGHTBRINGER, @The Great White Lizard

2. Inner Circle Knights (Those whose primary game is WFB 8th but play other games as well)

@ASSASSIN_NR_1

3. Questing Knights (Those who play 8th edition equally among many other games)

@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl, @Neersh

4. Knights (Those who only dabble in 8th edition)

-
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Put me down as a knight.
 
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