AoS Carnasaur vs Stegadon 3.0

[Tav]

yeah ive always rated engine over the chief, especially now with the points difference. Having a slann and being able to potentially summon, heal or do some mortals is always good

 

[Zhalfirim]

In my easy to play dino list I have all 3 - scarvet, Skink Chief and EoTG (and 2 Stegadons). Skink chief is good piece with more Stegadons, as he can buff them in combat before he goes and is used as missile. EoTG is great as healer for the dino castle - withou Slanns he is healing most of the turns and it is quite huge. Scarvet is mobile, can do and take some damage, for the cost it is ok monster piece. I leave him on other flank than my stega castle, it works quite fine.

 

[PJetski]

I am now firmly in the Engine of the Gods camp. I never really played around with them before 3.0 but after a couple of games there's a lot to like about them.

It's 40 points cheaper than a Chief, and while you lose a good ranged attack, some throwaway spear attacks and a great command ability, you gain 2 extra wounds (making you a little harder to bracket), the potential to fountain mortal wounds, and are almost as killy as the Chief at a baseline level anyway.

The major downside is that a Slann is a must-have to get the most out of it, but he or Kroak is likely to be a mainstay in most of my lists anyway. You'll need to play him quite aggressively in order to stay within 12" of the Engine. Seems risky, but I found that my opponent is too concerned with the rampaging Steg to focus on the Slann anyway.

In my experience, the Engine was able to sit in the throng of combat, get activated twice per shooting phase (which was more often than not spitting mortal wounds at everything within 12") and then still deal out good damage in the combat phase later.

Seeing as I was also dropping Comet's Call on him in the hero phase, my opponent was in complete awe at the volume of mortal wounds I was able to hand out.

I think I still need to play around with the Chief some more, but for now I think I'll be basing my first tournament lists for Thunder Lizard around an Engine (maybe even two...).

There's nothing wrong with the Engine but I think the opportunity costs are just a little too high.

• The Stegadon can pump out way more damage both in shooting and melee and has an excellent command ability
• If you are using Trove of Old One Technology on the Engine you are not using it on a Bastiladon
• Must bring a Slann/Kroak to maximize the engine roll

Brackets don't matter as much for the Stegadon because of the Ghur command to fight using the top line

There is room for both in a list. I've been playing around with a Thunder Lizard list using an Engine, Stegchief, and a Bastiladon to score loads of bonus points from Battle Tactics.

 

[xoid]

I think I'll be basing my first tournament lists for Thunder Lizard around an Engine (maybe even two...).

I like the Engine, but two doesn't get you much, as you only get to activate one during the shooting phase, then can only use the command ability once to activate one at the end of the phase.

 

[Lambs and Lions]

Caleb just posted a video about the Skink Chad on Stegadon. It is a very interesting video. He buffed his stegadon up way more than I did for my damage calcs but he is saying you can do on average 41 damage against 4+ sv turn 1 with a fully boosted Skink Chad.

I am using my stegadon chief as an alpha striker and his has been really good at deleting many monsters and units. Really enjoy him.

Also been watching some Season of War seraphon battle reports and the seraphon player keeps taking a Scar Vet that ends up doing very little, mostly because it can't get to when he needs it, which is my biggest problem with the Scar Vet.

 

[Tilorn91]

By some miracle, surely the work of the Great Plan, I made it to the finals of my gaming clubs League format. Group stage, into quarter finals, semi finals, and now the final match. I'm up against a DoK player that will almost surely run 15 melee snakes, 15 shooty snakes, Morathi, the medusa general, and some random chaff.

My plan is simple. Flex a Dread Saurian for bragging rights, but a fully buffed Skink Chief will be doing the heavy lifting with all the mentioned buffs to suicide into the 15 melee snakes and take them out with the battleline tactic, scoring 3 VPs first turn. He will absolutely die in the following turn, getting shot in the hero phase, then the shooting phase, then the combat phase Morathi. DoK will score 4 points total probably, 2 from kill a monster, +1 from doing it with a monster, +1 from Ghur realmrule after killing a monster. But I feel that is worth it. Not only will all the threats be focused on a 305 point model that killed 500, but also the DoK player lost a third of what makes their army do damage. The shooters will tickle the Dread while I heal him with all the standard stuff, Lifeswarm, Apotheosis and Prayer, and life is good.

Kroak will pepper Morathi turn after turn with Comet Call targeting both her models to ensure 3 damage hopefully, and easy game easy life. The scenario will be Veins of Ghur or whatever the name is, new Starstrike. No rush to hold objectives as they spawn in 2nd and 3rd turn, and in the 5th turn a player can score potential 15 VPs which is insane. Morathi is gone by turn 3, melee snakes dead turn 1, only shooters remain that will do little in the face of the entire rest of the army. 305 points and all the buffs, the only problem is if the DoK player deploys in a way that the Chief will eat Unleash Hell, in that case all my plans and ideas flop. Any flaws in my deduction, or any advice? Obviously I absolutely love the Chad Chief.

EDIT: Just realized that the DoK player might surprise me with a 5++ ward subfaction instead of the expected 6++, so the average 45 dmg from Calebs video on 4+ save that the snakes will have with All out Defense if Roar doesn't go off, he will do JUST ENOUGH, 30 dmg, to kill them all, a tiny bit of bad luck, and my battle tactics is whiffed. Now, I can do Stellar Tempest and Xbow shooting into the unit of melee snakes, but I wanted to do those into the shooters, and kill the melee in close combat.

 

[PabloTho]

By some miracle, surely the work of the Great Plan, I made it to the finals of my gaming clubs League format. Group stage, into quarter finals, semi finals, and now the final match. I'm up against a DoK player that will almost surely run 15 melee snakes, 15 shooty snakes, Morathi, the medusa general, and some random chaff.

My plan is simple. Flex a Dread Saurian for bragging rights, but a fully buffed Skink Chief will be doing the heavy lifting with all the mentioned buffs to suicide into the 15 melee snakes and take them out with the battleline tactic, scoring 3 VPs first turn. He will absolutely die in the following turn, getting shot in the hero phase, then the shooting phase, then the combat phase Morathi. DoK will score 4 points total probably, 2 from kill a monster, +1 from doing it with a monster, +1 from Ghur realmrule after killing a monster. But I feel that is worth it. Not only will all the threats be focused on a 305 point model that killed 500, but also the DoK player lost a third of what makes their army do damage. The shooters will tickle the Dread while I heal him with all the standard stuff, Lifeswarm, Apotheosis and Prayer, and life is good.

Kroak will pepper Morathi turn after turn with Comet Call targeting both her models to ensure 3 damage hopefully, and easy game easy life. The scenario will be Veins of Ghur or whatever the name is, new Starstrike. No rush to hold objectives as they spawn in 2nd and 3rd turn, and in the 5th turn a player can score potential 15 VPs which is insane. Morathi is gone by turn 3, melee snakes dead turn 1, only shooters remain that will do little in the face of the entire rest of the army. 305 points and all the buffs, the only problem is if the DoK player deploys in a way that the Chief will eat Unleash Hell, in that case all my plans and ideas flop. Any flaws in my deduction, or any advice? Obviously I absolutely love the Chad Chief.

EDIT: Just realized that the DoK player might surprise me with a 5++ ward subfaction instead of the expected 6++, so the average 45 dmg from Calebs video on 4+ save that the snakes will have with All out Defense if Roar doesn't go off, he will do JUST ENOUGH, 30 dmg, to kill them all, a tiny bit of bad luck, and my battle tactics is whiffed. Now, I can do Stellar Tempest and Xbow shooting into the unit of melee snakes, but I wanted to do those into the shooters, and kill the melee in close combat.

Sounds like a pretty solid plan. You might be lucky to have Morathi dead by turn 3. You would need to take 3 wounds off in one of the DoK player's turns if you were hoping to kill her by then, and it seems unlikely that they would throw her into a combat where the target survives to retaliate or where she could get Unleash Hell'd (although maybe you could unleash with the Chad Chief if he survives all the shooting and hope one of those 3 damage shots goes through).

What's the rest of your list looking like? I'm assuming your playing TL, so if you have Bastis then they've got a fair chance of chipping down his archers while the Chad goes to work.

Should be a challenging but fun game - very keen to hear the outcome of this!

 

[Tilorn91]

Sounds like a pretty solid plan. You might be lucky to have Morathi dead by turn 3. You would need to take 3 wounds off in one of the DoK player's turns if you were hoping to kill her by then, and it seems unlikely that they would throw her into a combat where the target survives to retaliate or where she could get Unleash Hell'd (although maybe you could unleash with the Chad Chief if he survives all the shooting and hope one of those 3 damage shots goes through).

What's the rest of your list looking like? I'm assuming your playing TL, so if you have Bastis then they've got a fair chance of chipping down his archers while the Chad goes to work.

Should be a challenging but fun game - very keen to hear the outcome of this!

The list is fairly simple:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Skink Starseer (145)*
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Skink Priest (80)*
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal
Stegadon with Skink Chief (305)*
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Cloak of Feathers
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Skink Starpriest (130)**
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (150)**
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Slann Starmaster (265)**
- Artefact: Itxi Grubs
- Spell: Stellar Tempest

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (115)*
10 x Skinks (75)**
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (75)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (75)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Behemoths
Dread Saurian (510)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111
Drops: 11

Some screens, a Dread for middle objective control, Chief for torpedo action, Slann for flying CA on Dread, anti horde spell, and some general Mystic Shield support with rerolling one cast and one unbind, Astrolith for range and +1 to all wizards, three Skink heroes for every single buff spell combo, Guard for good measure, Lifeswarm for sustain on Dread. Nothing too spicy. I know full well this is a bad list, doing a TL list without a EotG or a Basti, but I only have one stegadon model so it will be the Chief, and while I have a Basti, I can't fit him in the points.

I am playing the game on wednesday, so I will post when it is done.

 

[Killer Angel]

The list is fairly simple:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Skink Starseer (145)*
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Skink Priest (80)*
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal
Stegadon with Skink Chief (305)*
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Cloak of Feathers
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Skink Starpriest (130)**
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (150)**
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Slann Starmaster (265)**
- Artefact: Itxi Grubs
- Spell: Stellar Tempest

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (115)*
10 x Skinks (75)**
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (75)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (75)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Behemoths
Dread Saurian (510)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111
Drops: 11

Some screens, a Dread for middle objective control, Chief for torpedo action, Slann for flying CA on Dread, anti horde spell, and some general Mystic Shield support with rerolling one cast and one unbind, Astrolith for range and +1 to all wizards, three Skink heroes for every single buff spell combo, Guard for good measure, Lifeswarm for sustain on Dread. Nothing too spicy. I know full well this is a bad list, doing a TL list without a EotG or a Basti, but I only have one stegadon model so it will be the Chief, and while I have a Basti, I can't fit him in the points.

I am playing the game on wednesday, so I will post when it is done.

I love the development of this thread.

Q: carnosaur or stegadon?

A: Dread saurian

 

[Lizerd]

if you think about it, a dread saurian is just a bigger carnosaur that isnt bipedal

 

[Tilorn91]

Sounds like a pretty solid plan. You might be lucky to have Morathi dead by turn 3. You would need to take 3 wounds off in one of the DoK player's turns if you were hoping to kill her by then, and it seems unlikely that they would throw her into a combat where the target survives to retaliate or where she could get Unleash Hell'd (although maybe you could unleash with the Chad Chief if he survives all the shooting and hope one of those 3 damage shots goes through).

What's the rest of your list looking like? I'm assuming your playing TL, so if you have Bastis then they've got a fair chance of chipping down his archers while the Chad goes to work.

Should be a challenging but fun game - very keen to hear the outcome of this!

So, the match is played, and I ended up winning the league with the above list. The opponent ran a 2x15 shooters, 1x5 melee screen, Morathi and the Medusa General unit. All spells and the 3+ run shoot charge prayer went off, everything fully buffed. DoK ran a 1drop and chose I play first, I launch everything forward. Dread Saurian had 3d6 charge, slammed into the screen of 5 melee snakes with hopes of doing d6 mortals and d3 mortals to kill the screen to pile into the shooters, she didn't fall for the bait to spend Unleash Hell onto him, and the Chief rammed into the other 15 shooters, ate 6 damage in Unleash Hell. He ended up doing 20 damage. 20 damage. With everything hitting on 2s rerolling 1s, and wounding on 2s. Huge whiff, thought I lost then and there. He then died in the DoK hero phase from the command ability on other 15 shooters to kill the Chief.

But, Dread Saurian tanked damage like a boss. Sustained him through the rounds, never got double turned, and by turn 4, I killed everything, and won by a landslide in points. Had good luck where they spawned, and held 2, sometimes all 3 objectives.

 

[PabloTho]

So, the match is played, and I ended up winning the league with the above list. The opponent ran a 2x15 shooters, 1x5 melee screen, Morathi and the Medusa General unit. All spells and the 3+ run shoot charge prayer went off, everything fully buffed. DoK ran a 1drop and chose I play first, I launch everything forward. Dread Saurian had 3d6 charge, slammed into the screen of 5 melee snakes with hopes of doing d6 mortals and d3 mortals to kill the screen to pile into the shooters, she didn't fall for the bait to spend Unleash Hell onto him, and the Chief rammed into the other 15 shooters, ate 6 damage in Unleash Hell. He ended up doing 20 damage. 20 damage. With everything hitting on 2s rerolling 1s, and wounding on 2s. Huge whiff, thought I lost then and there. He then died in the DoK hero phase from the command ability on other 15 shooters to kill the Chief.

But, Dread Saurian tanked damage like a boss. Sustained him through the rounds, never got double turned, and by turn 4, I killed everything, and won by a landslide in points. Had good luck where they spawned, and held 2, sometimes all 3 objectives.

Nicely done, particularly against what sounds like a pretty grimy list. Sucks to hear the Chief didn't perform as expected, though after losing 6 wounds to Unleash Hell I suppose he's lost a fair bit of damage output from being bracketed - or did the DoK player just roll some clutch saves or something?

On the other hand, pretty awesome that the Dread got to go to work before his unfortunate nerf in the latest FAQ!

 

[Tilorn91]

Nicely done, particularly against what sounds like a pretty grimy list. Sucks to hear the Chief didn't perform as expected, though after losing 6 wounds to Unleash Hell I suppose he's lost a fair bit of damage output from being bracketed - or did the DoK player just roll some clutch saves or something?

On the other hand, pretty awesome that the Dread got to go to work before his unfortunate nerf in the latest FAQ!

The bracket hurt a bit, but the DoK player rolled all the sixes for saves sadly. Fell really short of the expected output, but turned out well for me overall. Dread was receiving some great d3 heals from Lifeswarm rolling almost constantly three, and for some reason never got Dispelled. Anyhow, snuck my last game of the Dread in the next 5 years most likely before AoS 4.0 it seems haha. Overall, had fun, and now I can brag endlessly with winning with a awesome expensive trash unit.

 

[Putzfrau]

He ended up doing 20 damage. 20 damage. With everything hitting on 2s rerolling 1s, and wounding on 2s. Huge whiff, thought I lost then and there.

Sorry, i'm not sure i totally understand. Was it 20 damage before or after saves? And you were upset at the amount of damage?

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Sorry, i'm not sure i totally understand. Was it 20 damage before or after saves? And you were upset at the amount of damage?

that is about average for a buffed up carnasuar so i think he did rather well. 20 damage isn't bad

 

[Tilorn91]

that is about average for a buffed up carnasuar so i think he did rather well. 20 damage isn't bad

The damage was after all the saves. Given that the average versus 5+ saves was something around 50 judging by youtube clips, I expected a whole lot more. It could turn out to be the average though, but everything hitting on twos, rerolling ones, and wounding on twos, I expected a truckload. All in all, a fun match, and snuck the Dread in literally hours before the nerf haha.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

The damage was after all the saves. Given that the average versus 5+ saves was something around 50 judging by youtube clips, I expected a whole lot more. It could turn out to be the average though, but everything hitting on twos, rerolling ones, and wounding on twos, I expected a truckload. All in all, a fun match, and snuck the Dread in literally hours before the nerf haha.

you are estimating WAY WAY to high. carnasuars can barely do 50 at all (everything hits nothing saves +3 to all attacks) let alone average

 

[Putzfrau]

you are estimating WAY WAY to high. carnasuars can barely do 50 at all (everything hits nothing saves +3 to all attacks) let alone average

Think it was a steg chief, but I'd still say that's way too high.

20 damage after saves (and after taking 6 wounds from unleash) against snakes is amazing.

Assuming top bracket, +2 attacks to the Jav, +3 attacks to everything else, plus 1 hit, wound, and reroll 1s to hit you do average 28 damage against a 5+ save. 22 on a 4+. Assuming a 6+ shrug.

Considering he bracketed twice on the charge, @Tilorn91 did better than he should have.

 

[Tilorn91]

Think it was a steg chief, but I'd still say that's way too high.

20 damage after saves (and after taking 6 wounds from unleash) against snakes is amazing.

Assuming top bracket, +2 attacks to the Jav, +3 attacks to everything else, plus 1 hit, wound, and reroll 1s to hit you do average 28 damage against a 5+ save. 22 on a 4+. Assuming a 6+ shrug.

Considering he bracketed twice on the charge, @Tilorn91 did better than he should have.

Ah alright, thanks for the clarification of my grandiose expectations. I was going off of Caleb's Steg Chief video where he estimated those damage values. Today I learned. I plan on running the Chief again tomorrow to smash into Alarielle and see if I can bring her down together with maybe some Comet Call and Skinks in a friendly match. I fully expect to smash head first into a brick wall of 2+ save tho.

 

[Putzfrau]

Ah alright, thanks for the clarification of my grandiose expectations. I was going off of Caleb's Steg Chief video where he estimated those damage values. Today I learned. I plan on running the Chief again tomorrow to smash into Alarielle and see if I can bring her down together with maybe some Comet Call and Skinks in a friendly match. I fully expect to smash head first into a brick wall of 2+ save tho.

No worries dude, I totally know the feeling. I use https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com to check stuff like that. I coulda put the numbers in wrong but sounds like 50 is probably the max end of what it can do.

I find stuff generally does a whole lot less damage than you'd think haha.