AoS Help vs. Legions of Nagash (AoS 2)

[Just A Skink]

Hi all,
I just can't beat Legions of Nagash. It seems I don't have an answer for Nagash, or Mannfred, or VLoZD, or Coven Throne... let alone the troops that never go away. I know part of the problem is just my poor job at running Seraphon, but my habitually poor dice rolling doesn't help. Still, any strategic advice that could help?

I have no salamanders/razors, no stegadons, no actual Kroak or slann (but I could probably get away with a proxy)

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Hi all,
I just can't beat Legions of Nagash. It seems I don't have an answer for Nagash, or Mannfred, or VLoZD, or Coven Throne... let alone the troops that never go away. I know part of the problem is just my poor job at running Seraphon, but my habitually poor dice rolling doesn't help. Still, any strategic advice that could help?

sure lets see what we can do for you.

I have no salamanders/razors, no stegadons, no actual Kroak or slann (but I could probably get away with a proxy)

wait nope never mind. you have none of the tools needed

 

[Just A Skink]

sure lets see what we can do for you.


wait nope never mind. you have none of the tools needed

Lol. I was kind of afraid of that. Thanks for your (brutal) honesty. My friends will let me proxy a Kroak/slann if that helps. I might even be able to swing a salamander proxy or two. I'm out of luck on a stegadon though.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Lol. I was kind of afraid of that. Thanks for your (brutal) honesty. My friends will let me proxy a Kroak/slann if that helps. I might even be able to swing a salamander proxy or two. I'm out of luck on a stegadon though.

then yes a slann would go a long way to help counter the undeads magic

 

[Just A Skink]

then yes a slann would go a long way to help counter the undeads magic

Sorry to continue to pester you, but I respect your opinion and observations. Any other suggestions, or tips or strategies to consider? I'm pretty sure the next time we play, he will have Nagash, a unit of 40 skeletons, grave guard, wolves, black knights and/or hexwraiths. Other heroes he typically plays are the Coven Throne, VLoZD or Mannfred, and a necromancer.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Sorry to continue to pester you, but I respect your opinion and observations. Any other suggestions, or tips or strategies to consider? I'm pretty sure the next time we play, he will have Nagash, a unit of 40 skeletons, grave guard, wolves, black knights and/or hexwraiths. Other heroes he typically plays are the Coven Throne, VLoZD or Mannfred, and a necromancer.

oh good he isn't running zombies. ok first and foremost the undead are slooooow you have 3-4" on him in movement and that makes a huge difference. his stuff is tuff not due to being sturdy but from coming back your main goal is to only hit something if you can wipe it, no half measures. nagash is fine he costs to much for what he brings if he is on the table knuckle down for a magic duel and then ignore him. kill everything else. the main thing to watch out for is manfred he is very powerful and has the most broken buff in the game. kill him if you can but if you cant don't waist your eforts .
slann are amazing at poping necromancers so you don't even need to bother with him just comits call him every turn and hord break the big blocks

 

[VikingRage]

Can you post what you have for models?

 

[Just A Skink]

Can you post what you have for models?

Sure.

1 Carnosaur (either Oldblood or Scar-vet)
1 Troglodon (or a proxy as a 2nd Carno)
1 Bastiladon
1 possible Slann/Kroak/Starseer proxy
1 Scar-vet on Cold One
1 Oldblood on foot (or Sunblood proxy)
3 Starpriests or Priest (can use them as either)
100 Skinks (I only have a few "new" skinks, but LOTS of the old plastic skink archers)
40 Saurus
15 Knights
10 Guard
6 Kroxigor
6 Terradons (one to use a Terradon Chief hero)
3 Ripperdactyls (I usually use one of these as my Terradon hero bc Rippers aren't quite as good)
2 possible Salamander proxies
1 Realmshaper Engine

 

[VikingRage]

I am a bit new to AoS compared to wargaming in general, so take my advice with a grain of salt. From what I understand of GA Death is that they rely heavily on their heroes, just like Seraphon. And their chaff is mostly just chaff at heart.

Proxying Kroak feels like an Automatic decision to try and shut down those wizard centerpieces, aaand dump mortals into the backline heroes that are rezzing models back onto the board. Trog is waay overpriced right now, but does make a decent tar pit for enemy models if you decide to pour healing and all of the 3.0 buffs into it. Same with the basti of course. Creating mobile tarpits to "rush" forward and bog down and deny objectives to those large blobs of undead instead of killing them seems good on paper to me. If you can proxy up a astrolith bearer to babysit kroak, who sundenly reaching far enough to hit the supporting heroes with a +4 to cast/deny all of their buffs.

If you were not going the supreme spellcaster route, I would kinda want to suggest that you go the Saurus Route and run all of the Saurus knights and carnosaurs you can, in Koatls Claw or TL. But I feel like that would need you to really pick your avenues and battles to lock up the Battlefield just right.

 

[Just A Skink]

I am a bit new to AoS compared to wargaming in general, so take my advice with a grain of salt. From what I understand of GA Death is that they rely heavily on their heroes, just like Seraphon. And their chaff is mostly just chaff at heart.

Proxying Kroak feels like an Automatic decision to try and shut down those wizard centerpieces, aaand dump mortals into the backline heroes that are rezzing models back onto the board. Trog is waay overpriced right now, but does make a decent tar pit for enemy models if you decide to pour healing and all of the 3.0 buffs into it. Same with the basti of course. Creating mobile tarpits to "rush" forward and bog down and deny objectives to those large blobs of undead instead of killing them seems good on paper to me. If you can proxy up a astrolith bearer to babysit kroak, who sundenly reaching far enough to hit the supporting heroes with a +4 to cast/deny all of their buffs.

If you were not going the supreme spellcaster route, I would kinda want to suggest that you go the Saurus Route and run all of the Saurus knights and carnosaurs you can, in Koatls Claw or TL. But I feel like that would need you to really pick your avenues and battles to lock up the Battlefield just right.

Thank you for the advice as well. Just to remind you, my friends and I are currently still playing AoS 2. I'm interested to try Kroak and I can probably proxy an astrolith bearer. The guys are pretty easy going.

 

[VikingRage]

Thank you for the advice as well. Just to remind you, my friends and I are currently still playing AoS 2. I'm interested to try Kroak and I can probably proxy an astrolith bearer. The guys are pretty easy going.

*facepalm* Thanks for saying it so gracefully! I guess I need to read the titles a liiiitle bit better. Regardless of how the games go, I hope you have fun!!! It sounds like a great play group!

 

[Putzfrau]

Hi all,
I just can't beat Legions of Nagash. It seems I don't have an answer for Nagash, or Mannfred, or VLoZD, or Coven Throne... let alone the troops that never go away. I know part of the problem is just my poor job at running Seraphon, but my habitually poor dice rolling doesn't help. Still, any strategic advice that could help?

I have no salamanders/razors, no stegadons, no actual Kroak or slann (but I could probably get away with a proxy)

I've generally found when you are struggling with "habitually poor dice rolling" that you're making too risky decisions. Dice are what dice are, so you can only make so many choices in a given game that require above average rolls. I'm generally making choices that will almost always go in my favor outside of some very, very low odds and in that case all you can do is shrug. It is a dice game after all

Also, the game is generally won and lost in movement and deployment where dice don't have a factor. Something i've found to be very helpful is to just play "first turns." Deployment and first turn movement phases can really set the game up to go in your favor or not. You can run through 3-4 of those in the time it takes to play a normal game and it helps just get some more reps into the most important part of the game.

Personally i'd focus less on what is in your list and more on the choices your making in the game.

 

[Just A Skink]

I've generally found when you are struggling with "habitually poor dice rolling" that you're making too risky decisions. Dice are what dice are, so you can only make so many choices in a given game that require above average rolls. I'm generally making choices that will almost always go in my favor outside of some very, very low odds and in that case all you can do is shrug. It is a dice game after all

Also, the game is generally won and lost in movement and deployment where dice don't have a factor. Something i've found to be very helpful is to just play "first turns." Deployment and first turn movement phases can really set the game up to go in your favor or not. You can run through 3-4 of those in the time it takes to play a normal game and it helps just get some more reps into the most important part of the game.

Personally i'd focus less on what is in your list and more on the choices your making in the game.

Thanks @Putzfrau. I'm sure your right. Honestly, I'm a pretty weak player and I regularly make bad moves/decisions. I can sometimes see it after the fact. I suppose I'm just trying to solve continued poor play with a "better" list. Oh well.
To the dice. Even when I have decent chances, I tend to roll poorly. That's just me in every game I play. So much so, that even my friends know to expect it. Ha ha. Of course, that's probably just my perception b/c I've had a roll or two, during the occasional game, where I spike and roll great. Dice are dice as you point out...

 

[Putzfrau]

Thanks @Putzfrau. I'm sure your right. Honestly, I'm a pretty weak player and I regularly make bad moves/decisions. I can sometimes see it after the fact. I suppose I'm just trying to solve continued poor play with a "better" list. Oh well.
To the dice. Even when I have decent chances, I tend to roll poorly. That's just me in every game I play. So much so, that even my friends know to expect it. Ha ha. Of course, that's probably just my perception b/c I've had a roll or two, during the occasional game, where I spike and roll great. Dice are dice as you point out...

Its a complicated game that requires a ton of reps to even get somewhat decent at so no harm in that. I've personally found finding a decentish list I enjoy playing and then just getting a ton of reps in with that list to be a great way to work on the nuances of my play. It's easier to kind of see what you should have done or the mistakes you made without adding in the additional element of changing lists a bunch.

What list have you been running?

 

[Just A Skink]

Its a complicated game that requires a ton of reps to even get somewhat decent at so no harm in that. I've personally found finding a decentish list I enjoy playing and then just getting a ton of reps in with that list to be a great way to work on the nuances of my play. It's easier to kind of see what you should have done or the mistakes you made without adding in the additional element of changing lists a bunch.

What list have you been running?

Honestly, I just run what I have. For a while, I only had the start collecting of 1 Carno, 1 Scar-vet on CO, 1 Starpriest/priest (from oracle), 10 Warriors, 5 Knights. I eventually added a battleforce box of 1 Trog (should have been 2nd Carno), 1 Oldblood/Sunblood, 1 Starpriest, 20 Skinks, 3 Terradons, 3 Rippers, and a Bastiladon. My lists were usually Coalesced with some combo of those units.

Over the last year, I've added 20 Warriors, 10 Knights, 10 Guard, 3 Krox, 3 Terradons, and finally a Slann/Kroak proxy. Plus, I eventually dug out some old Lizardmen so I could run more hordes. I have about 100 Skinks and 40 Warriors total now. I think my most recent list was Coalesced: Oldblood on Carno, Scar-vet on CO, Slann, Starpriest, Terradon Chief; 2x5 Chameleons, 3 Krox, 5 Guard, 10 Knights, 30 Warriors, 30 Skinks, 10 Skinks & Geminids.

Bear in mind, this is still 2.0.

 

[Putzfrau]

Honestly, I just run what I have. For a while, I only had the start collecting of 1 Carno, 1 Scar-vet on CO, 1 Starpriest/priest (from oracle), 10 Warriors, 5 Knights. I eventually added a battleforce box of 1 Trog (should have been 2nd Carno), 1 Oldblood/Sunblood, 1 Starpriest, 20 Skinks, 3 Terradons, 3 Rippers, and a Bastiladon. My lists were usually Coalesced with some combo of those units.

Over the last year, I've added 20 Warriors, 10 Knights, 10 Guard, 3 Krox, 3 Terradons, and finally a Slann/Kroak proxy. Plus, I eventually dug out some old Lizardmen so I could run more hordes. I have about 100 Skinks and 40 Warriors total now. I think my most recent list was Coalesced: Oldblood on Carno, Scar-vet on CO, Slann, Starpriest, Terradon Chief; 2x5 Chameleons, 3 Krox, 5 Guard, 10 Knights, 30 Warriors, 30 Skinks, 10 Skinks & Geminids.

Bear in mind, this is still 2.0.

Sounds like you have enough stuff there to pull together a nice consistent list you can get reps down with. If you like coalesced and saurus nothing wrong with that, don't need to spam skinks to be effective.

Slann
priest
Starpriest
scar vet on carno

5 knights
5 knights
5 knights

Basti

is a great base to build off of. can add a block of warriors, a block of skinks, your chamos, some endless spells, etc etc.

 

[Just A Skink]

Sounds like you have enough stuff there to pull together a nice consistent list you can get reps down with. If you like coalesced and saurus nothing wrong with that, don't need to spam skinks to be effective.

Slann
priest
Starpriest
scar vet on carno

5 knights
5 knights
5 knights

Basti

is a great base to build off of. can add a block of warriors, a block of skinks, your chamos, some endless spells, etc etc.

Thank you @Putzfrau. This seems like a logical base. I mostly play Coalesced b/c I don't think I'm smart enough to run Starborne, and Coalesced seem more "manageable" for me. I know you're MUCH better at playing this than me, but I wanted to ask about the Knights. You've found that 5 knights work better than 10? I've had mixed/limited success with Knights, even on a charge. But just 5... I worry they won't do much.

 

[Putzfrau]

Thank you @Putzfrau. This seems like a logical base. I mostly play Coalesced b/c I don't think I'm smart enough to run Starborne, and Coalesced seem more "manageable" for me. I know you're MUCH better at playing this than me, but I wanted to ask about the Knights. You've found that 5 knights work better than 10? I've had mixed/limited success with Knights, even on a charge. But just 5... I worry they won't do much.

I think I'm 2.0 ten works better but 5 are still gonna hit hard and sets you up for a better 3.0 list whenever you and your play group start playing it. With the starpriest buff on them, a unit of 5 still is putting out 35 attacks which is awesome. Try to make sure you're positioning is so you can kinda buff one up and shoot it out and repeat.

Can definitely use some of the leftover points to bump a unit up to 10 if you'd like. I'd run the list in thunder lizard personally but koatls will be fine if you like that better.