AoS 3.0, 2000 pts, Thunder Lizard army list

[Tichi Huichi Raider]

So how does this list sound:

Coalesced - Thunder Lizard

For Warlord Battalion, I have

Kroak - 430
Starpriest - 130
Astrolith Bearer - 150
Temple Guard - 115
Total: 825

The thinking here is that Kroak is strong, the Starpriest is a wizard to facilitate him, and the Astrolith and Temple Guard are his body guards. Also since the Warlord Battalion doesn't involve any buffs that are specific just to the units of the battalion, I think it's a good idea to put the units who I don't want to be the in midst of a melee here where they will not waste another battalion's buffs.

For the Linebreaker Battalion, I have

Engine of the Gods - 265
Solar Engine - 235
Solar Engine - 235
Total: 735

I think the Solar Engines are fairly good and I appreciate that they are 30 pts cheaper than a stegadon. Also, they count as behemoths, which stegadons don't get to do in an AoS 3.0 Thunder Lizard army (they either count as leaders or troops). The Solar Engines can offer some good, reliable ranged damage and the Engine of Gods can either heal them, damage the enemy, or summon in Saurus Warriors (which as I understand costs me zero points).

Now, I could switch out Linebreaker for the Alpha Beast pack, because maybe that d6 can be helpful but I also think All-Out Attack and All-Out Defense are fairly good.

Next I have my Hunters of the Heartland Battalion

5 Saurus Knights - 110
5 Saurus Knights - 110
Total - 220

Saurus Knights are good screen and a good attack, if needed for objective control, and with the Hunters of the Heartland buff of not being targetable by Monstrous Rampage, I think that their screening ability or ability to attack enemy monsters is even better.

Finally, to complete my army

Scar-Vet on Carnosaur - 215

I'm opting for a Scar-Vet on Carnosaur to buff up to Saurus Knights, give me another tanky monster.

The Total Comes out to 1995

I guess I can sub out the Scar-Vet for more Temple Guard and some Saurus Knights, or for Saurus Warriors and Saurus Knights, or for two blocks of Saurus Warriors, honestly, I have a lot of room for changes. But how does this sound so far? And if the Scar-Vet is unnecessary, what's the best replacement.

 

[Tav]

So how does this list sound:

Coalesced - Thunder Lizard

For Warlord Battalion, I have

Kroak - 430
Starpriest - 130
Astrolith Bearer - 150
Temple Guard - 115
Total: 825

The thinking here is that Kroak is strong, the Starpriest is a wizard to facilitate him, and the Astrolith and Temple Guard are his body guards. Also since the Warlord Battalion doesn't involve any buffs that are specific just to the units of the battalion, I think it's a good idea to put the units who I don't want to be the in midst of a melee here where they will not waste another battalion's buffs.

For the Linebreaker Battalion, I have

Engine of the Gods - 265
Solar Engine - 235
Solar Engine - 235
Total: 735

I think the Solar Engines are fairly good and I appreciate that they are 30 pts cheaper than a stegadon. Also, they count as behemoths, which stegadons don't get to do in an AoS 3.0 Thunder Lizard army (they either count as leaders or troops). The Solar Engines can offer some good, reliable ranged damage and the Engine of Gods can either heal them, damage the enemy, or summon in Saurus Warriors (which as I understand costs me zero points).

Now, I could switch out Linebreaker for the Alpha Beast pack, because maybe that d6 can be helpful but I also think All-Out Attack and All-Out Defense are fairly good.

Next I have my Hunters of the Heartland Battalion

5 Saurus Knights - 110
5 Saurus Knights - 110
Total - 220

Saurus Knights are good screen and a good attack, if needed for objective control, and with the Hunters of the Heartland buff of not being targetable by Monstrous Rampage, I think that their screening ability or ability to attack enemy monsters is even better.

Finally, to complete my army

Scar-Vet on Carnosaur - 215

I'm opting for a Scar-Vet on Carnosaur to buff up to Saurus Knights, give me another tanky monster.

The Total Comes out to 1995

I guess I can sub out the Scar-Vet for more Temple Guard and some Saurus Knights, or for Saurus Warriors and Saurus Knights, or for two blocks of Saurus Warriors, honestly, I have a lot of room for changes. But how does this sound so far? And if the Scar-Vet is unnecessary, what's the best replacement.

Having engine and 2 bastis is not for me. Personally i only bother taking 1 bastiladon these days as you can no longer fire both twice.
A priest and 1 bastiladon works very well.
Probably better to have the scar vet in the linebreaker in place of a bastiladon and add more knights and a priest

 

[Tichi Huichi Raider]

Having engine and 2 bastis is not for me. Personally i only bother taking 1 bastiladon these days as you can no longer fire both twice.
A priest and 1 bastiladon works very well.
Probably better to have the scar vet in the linebreaker in place of a bastiladon and add more knights and a priest

The Scar-Vet is unfortunately a leader and can't be used to fulfill the behemoth stuff.

Would taking the Scar-Vet out for more knights and a priest be worth it?

 

[Tav]

My issue with the list is you have engine of the gods and 2 bastiladons.
2 of those 3 will see a significant drop in potential effectiveness as 1 bastiladon will always only fire once or you use the engine again and each basti only fires 1 time each.

Im finding it good to run 1 with a priest so you have 1 bastiladon firing twice with +1 to hit

You dont need to push everything into battalions, take command entourage if you need an enhancement then put as much as you can in battle regiment

 

[Tichi Huichi Raider]

My issue with the list is you have engine of the gods and 2 bastiladons.
2 of those 3 will see a significant drop in potential effectiveness as 1 bastiladon will always only fire once or you use the engine again and each basti only fires 1 time each.

Im finding it good to run 1 with a priest so you have 1 bastiladon firing twice with +1 to hit

You dont need to push everything into battalions, take command entourage if you need an enhancement then put as much as you can in battle regiment

Yeah, I get that that the bastiladon is not as strong as the Stega, and a Skink Priest would essentially do what the buff from the Linebreaker battalion does but the Priest could do it more than once, so he's more effective.

So what do you think of this:
Keep the Warlord battalion and Hunters battalion
Exchange the Linebreaker battalion and Carnosaur out for the following:

Engine of the Gods - 265
Skink Priest - 80
Stegadon - 265
5 Saurus Knights - 110
Solar Engine - 235

I think that would actually bring my army to an even 2000.

It's pretty easy to fit that all in Battle Regiment for the one drop, which can be nice.

 

[Tav]

So
Kroak
Astro
Starpriest
guard

knights
Knights

engine
Priest
Steg
Knights
Bastiladon

yeah i like that. Good mix of stuff

 

[Tichi Huichi Raider]

So
Kroak
Astro
Starpriest
guard

knights
Knights

engine
Priest
Steg
Knights
Bastiladon

yeah i like that. Good mix of stuff

Yeah precisely.

 

[Zhalfirim]

I have played similar list recently against vampires and DoK and generally I have to say the output is not there. Honestly I am wondering if the whole Kroak package is even worth it. You are paying 700 points to do on average 4d3 mortals to 3 units per turn. With some dispells or fnps it will be less. It is not very mobile and it does not play the battle tactics very well.
The knights even with scar vet will bounce off the defensive units nearly every good list will have.

 

[Tichi Huichi Raider]

I have played similar list recently against vampires and DoK and generally I have to say the output is not there. Honestly I am wondering if the whole Kroak package is even worth it. You are paying 700 points to do on average 4d3 mortals to 3 units per turn. With some dispells or fnps it will be less. It is not very mobile and it does not play the battle tactics very well.
The knights even with scar vet will bounce off the defensive units nearly every good list will have.

You think Slann is the better choice?

I guess, the main purpose of the knights would be screening since they have a large combined footprint.

 

[Zhalfirim]

You think Slann is the better choice?

I guess, the main purpose of the knights would be screening since they have a large combined footprint.

I will be trying a list now with no slaan. 2 skink chiefs, stega, starseer ( the -1 to save spell looks really great now), oracle (I will see about this one), bastiladon and 2 salamanders, priest and some skinks. You still get the comet and tide of serpents, the list is mobile and quite killy, good shooting and combat.

With slaan you don't have to take the astrolith or guards.

 

[Tav]

the starseer was always great.
My thunder lizard list utilises starseer and geminids to create an effective extra -2 rend (1 from spell and 1 from denying all out defence)

 

[Tichi Huichi Raider]

I will be trying a list now with no slaan. 2 skink chiefs, stega, starseer ( the -1 to save spell looks really great now), oracle (I will see about this one), bastiladon and 2 salamanders, priest and some skinks. You still get the comet and tide of serpents, the list is mobile and quite killy, good shooting and combat.

With slaan you don't have to take the astrolith or guards.

With Slann, the Guards are still nice to have, but yeah the Astrolith is probably over the top.

What Constellation are you running?

the starseer was always great.
My thunder lizard list utilises starseer and geminids to create an effective extra -2 rend (1 from spell and 1 from denying all out defence)

Yeah the Starseer looks great, I just don't have one right now.

 

[Tyranitar]

the starseer was always great.
My thunder lizard list utilises starseer and geminids to create an effective extra -2 rend (1 from spell and 1 from denying all out defence)

Unfortunately geminids doesn't stop AoD, it stops CA's until the start of the next combat phase. I don't think they're very good anymore tbh, on paper at least. I haven't tried them out yet to see them in action. I do think the starseer sounds great, I want to try one out soon

 

[Tav]

Unfortunately geminids doesn't stop AoD, it stops CA's until the start of the next combat phase. I don't think they're very good anymore tbh, on paper at least. I haven't tried them out yet to see them in action. I do think the starseer sounds great, I want to try one out soon

It stops it in the shooting phase, which is why they are in my list. Also stops unleash hell

 

[Tichi Huichi Raider]

So I ran the list I came up with in this thread:

Army: Seraphon - Coalesced - Thunder Lizard

Warlord Battalion:
Engine of the Gods
Starpriest
Priest
Knights

Hunters of the Heartland
Stegadon with Bow
Knights

Battle Regiment
Kroak
Astrolith - General
Guard
Knights
Bastilidon

Total: 2000 Points

I went with the command point generating enhancements.

Played into a Slaves to Darkness army, don't know the exact list but as I recall

6 Varanguard (reinforced) - General
Mindstealer Sphiranx
War Shrine
Manticore
Chaos Lord on Foot
20 Chaos Warriors (reinforced)
2 sets of 5 Chaos Knights

Maybe I'm missing something, but that's what I remember.

The Battleplan was marking territory.

For ease of direction.

Let's say I am on the southside board, my left is west, my right is east and he is on the northside of the board, his left is east, his right is west.

He placed first and I think he placed the Sphiranx first in the northeast on the objective marker. Then I placed one of my Knights from the Warlord Battalion on the objective marker in the southwest. He placed more units on the northeast, so I started focusing on the southeast. Due to the one-drop, I finished first. he ended by putting the rest of his units in the northwest.

So the ultimate set up was like this

West East
20 Chaos Warriors
5 Chaos Knights - 5 Chaos Knights War Shrine - Manticore - Varanguard - Sphiranx - Chaos Lord



5 knights 5 knights - Stegadon - 5 knights - Starpriest - Bastilidon - Engine of the Gods
Priest Kroak Combo (Kroak, Astrolith, Guard)

I think already he screwed up, he has a 600 point advantage in the West, but I have that same advantage in the east. His 600 point advantage is over a single unit, mine is over his general, buffing units, and leaders.

TURN 1

I rolled to start first and I basically said I'm gonna sack the Southwest Objective because victory points are not the determining factor in this battleplan, so I can lose an objective marker for the early game and be fine. My battle tactic was the one where if a monster holds an objective you get the tactic.

I forgot to use Kroak's Comet's Call, which is a major error, but I wasn't in range to use his other spells yet. But I got 7 command points and buffed some units. Then in movement, I pushed my behemoths and Starpriest forward. Due to terrain, I had one unit of knights screening the Stegadon and one unit screening the starpriest. My EoTG was unscreened, which was a mistake.

In shooting phase, I rolled Azure for Engine of the Gods and I decided to hit his varanguard, which was maybe a mistake because they have a lot of protection from the warshrine. But then with the Stegadon and Bastilidon (double shot) I focus fired down his Sphiranx and killed it right off the bat. I chose not to charge, due to me not having done any damage with Kroak. So I ended my end turn there.

In his turn, he sent his Chaos Knights in the west against my Knights and he decided to send his Varanguard against my unscreened Engine of the Gods and moved his Manticore and Chaos Lord up in the same direction, ignoring my Knights-Stegadon-Bastilidon combo.

I used all out defense on the Saurus Knights and because my Knights were set up as a screen in a long line, after he killed 4 with one unit, the one I left on the battlefield was the one which was out of range of his other unit of knights. So one of my Saurus Knights survived with 1 wound.

He charged my Engine of the Gods with the Varanguard, I chose not to use unleash hell because EoTG's javelins are useless and the Bastilidon, which was in range of the Varanguard had already received a command ability. I forgot to use my monstrous rampage because I didn't realize I could. I just tanked the 4 damage. I hit back with the EoTG and the Bastilidon's tail. He also realized that he had moved out of range of his War Shrine.

When it came to battleshock, my Knights in the Southwest survived.

TURN 2

I rolled to start turn 2. I chose kill the general as my battle tactic which my opponent called cocky. I only got 3 command point, which was sports tragic.

I buffed Kroak's spellcasting. And then used Comet's Call (rolled a 12 so he didn't even try to disspell. I also used his other spell three times successfully and beat the dispell. I used the spells on the Varanguard, Manticore and War Shrine. I then used Kroak's command to allow my Knights and Stegadon to fly.

In movement, I moved my solo knight in the west away from his knights, I moved the Kroak combo east. I had one unit of flying knights close in on his Chaos Lord, one unit of flying knights close in on the Varanguard, my Stegadon flew over to get on the other side of the Varanguard. My Starpriest was left on his lonesome.

In shooting, I focus fired the Varanguard with EoTG javelins, Stegadon, Bastilidon (double shot), Starpriest, Priest, rolled Azure Energy (hit Varanguard and Chaos Lord) and combined with Kroak's damage from before killed a bunch of them.

In charge phase, my Stegadon charged them and his stampede plus stomp killed another while the EoTG made it so they couldn't issue or receive orders. My Knights failed the charge on the Varanguard but the other unit of knights charged the Chaos Lord.

In combat, my melee from my monsters killed the Varanguard and my knights did a whooping 1 damage to the Chaos Lord.

In his turn, he actually didn't moe any pieces in the west, which was weird. He spawned a Varanguard cause his other Varanguard had died. And then he had those and the Chaos Lord charge my Engine of the Gods because his battle tactic was kill a monster. His War Shrine and Manticore moved up. My Engine of the Gods survived with 5 wounds so he failed his battle tactic and I rebuttled some damage.

Turn 3

He got the turn and chose kill a battleline and targeted my screen of knights in the east (rather than my 1 wound knight in the west, because he was scared of Kroak). He ended up killing all but one knight with one wound, so he failed the battle tactic. In response, I chose take an enemy objective as my battle objective, since my knight was eight inches away and all his units had moved off the objective. In hero phase, Kroak only got off three spells but did some nice damage. In Shooting, my guys took the Varanguard to one model, killed the War Shrine, and wounded the Manticore more. Then in melee, my guys cleaned up his entire east side of the battlefield.

Turn 4

I got the turn chose Ferocious Advanced, the Kroak combo ran and then my opponent forfeited because I had guaranteed more Battle Tactics (I was at 4 and he had missed 2 so his max is 3) and he didn't think he could take all four objectives from me.

Conclusion:

Knights did exactly what they were supposed to do, die with grace.

The Bastilidon-Stegadon-Engine of the Gods trio can focus fire any unit down.

Kroak is still pretty good, especially with the smaller board meaning he (or his vassal) gets in range of the opponents faster and easier.

Terrain can inhibit this synergy especially if the screens aren't set up right.

In the future I'm thinking I can get a better screen set up for my behemoths and then deal my damage from behind them. Ideally, 1 knight survives and I'm able to charge with the Stegadon and EoTG the following charge phase and use stampede and two of the monstrous rampages.