AoS Thunder Lizard 3.0 2000pts

[Zhalfirim]

Hello,
I will trying this list soon in smaller local tournament. The list is built around Kroak and his mortal wounds output, which is really high from my testing. As his support he has Guards, Astrolith and Oracle. The Oracle is quite costly addition and maybe will be cut in the future and replaced by Scar Veteran on Carno. Other than that the list is trying to be more or less in one group, with the Engine healing the castle and making new screens. The skink chief, while being more costly now, can be used as aimed rocket with movement 14+run+charge and can be buffed to quite silly levels of output and survivability.
What do you think?

Warlord Battalion
Lord Kroak 430
Astrolith Bearer 150
Skink Priest 80 - Healing prayer
Saurus Guards 115

One drop Battalion
Skink Chief on Stegadon 305 - Prime Warbeast, Cloak of Feathers
Skinks 75
Skinks 75
Bastiladon 235

Engine of the Gods 265
Oracle on Troglodon 270 - Fusil of Conflagration, Hand of Glory

 

[Tyranitar]

Looks like a good place to start for TL and get some games in. The only things I think I would change would be to take curse on the priest, switch the unified Battalion for one that gives an additional artifact and prob go with the 5+ ward artifact in the trog, moving the fusil to wherever. Reason being that this list is 7 drops and I think most people will aim for 4-5 or less so once you go past that it's not worth it to sacrifice an extra enhancement for unified. The amulet on the trog makes them very tanky which is good so it can position aggressively for kroak

 

[Zhalfirim]

Looks like a good place to start for TL and get some games in. The only things I think I would change would be to take curse on the priest, switch the unified Battalion for one that gives an additional artifact and prob go with the 5+ ward artifact in the trog, moving the fusil to wherever. Reason being that this list is 7 drops and I think most people will aim for 4-5 or less so once you go past that it's not worth it to sacrifice an extra enhancement for unified. The amulet on the trog makes them very tanky which is good so it can position aggressively for kroak

The warlord batallion is the one with the extra relic. I think actually with the way battalions are now, this could be quite low drop lists in 3.0, but we will see about that. I don't have enough small leaders to fill in another extra relic battalion, as Kroak does not count now. Do you think the 5+++ is better than the Cloak of Feathers?

 

[Kakalou1]

Do you think the 5+++ is better than the Cloak of Feathers?

I think this is depending on your Luck. The ward is more reliable because it's add stat 1/3 of wound

The cloak is so inconstant, you have 1/2 to make it Come back full life -

I used twice and lost it twice so now personaly I will go for the ward

 

[Zhalfirim]

The Cloak in this case is the -1 to hit, +4 to M and fly relic, not the Dracothion ressurecting one.

 

[Kakalou1]

Oh sorry, my Bad'
I still think the ward is better to protect yiur oracle from shooting

 

[Tyranitar]

The warlord batallion is the one with the extra relic. I think actually with the way battalions are now, this could be quite low drop lists in 3.0, but we will see about that. I don't have enough small leaders to fill in another extra relic battalion, as Kroak does not count now. Do you think the 5+++ is better than the Cloak of Feathers?

Ah you're right with the battalions, not enough small heroes. I think the cloak is likely better than the amulet. The cloak might be slightly worse now that all out attack can cancel it out but your opponent won't always be able to do that, and the extra movement and fly is still very valuable

 

[Nart]

I wouldn't agree that curse is better than healing. It is too random and requires very low range to actually pull off. Also, keep in mind, that cloack of feathers is less about defense, but more about fly and +4 move, which is very powerful with run and charge. For stegachief I'd definitely go with cloak, while trog can be better with amulet - his main goal is to survive, while being vassal for kroak.

I absolutely agree, though, that 7 drops won't mean anything. I played 7 drops thunderlizard, and almost every other competitive list was outdropping me. Now armies, which are not reliant on enhancements, will try to go one-drop, so I expect 3-4 drops to be very common. If you don't have enough small heroes for second warlord, try other battalions, like Hunters, which give immunity to rampages.

 

[Tyranitar]

I wouldn't agree that curse is better than healing. It is too random and requires very low range to actually pull off. Also, keep in mind, that cloack of feathers is less about defense, but more about fly and +4 move, which is very powerful with run and charge. For stegachief I'd definitely go with cloak, while trog can be better with amulet - his main goal is to survive, while being vassal for kroak.

I absolutely agree, though, that 7 drops won't mean anything. I played 7 drops thunderlizard, and almost every other competitive list was outdropping me. Now armies, which are not reliant on enhancements, will try to go one-drop, so I expect 3-4 drops to be very common. If you don't have enough small heroes for second warlord, try other battalions, like Hunters, which give immunity to rampages.

I guess as far as the prayer goes I just figure curse gives you a different option, whereas the list already has some healing available between the EotG (not necessarily consistent), the big models are heroes so can use heroic recovery potentially, and Kroak has the slann healing spell

 

[Nart]

The problem is that if priest is within 9" of an enemy units, something is going wrong. You definitely don't want him to be there. I see curse as a counteroffensive measure because of this.

As for other ways for healing - surely, there are some of them, but EotG have to be near exactly the unit you want to heal. Kroak, at the same time, heals only 1 wounds, unless rolls 10+, which will happen in about half of attempts. While you have different sources of healing, you can locate them around the whole map, using it wherever you need it. Priest is great for this, because you want it near other units anyway. I often launch EotG forward, for example, while it handles itself with pretty consistent healing. Finally, you want to apply several heals per turn on the same target. For example, if you want to return bastiladon at full health for 1+ save.

Also, heroic recovery is very unreliable in coalesced. With bravery 5-6 there's less than 50% chance to trigger it.

 

[Zhalfirim]

So I have played my first game with the list against ogors. I have won after third turn pretty much. Here are my notes:
1) Skink chief is absolutely insane still, pretty much one shotting the Stonetusks.
2) Skink Priest CA to add +1 to hit rolls to your next hero phase is absolutely bonkers too. I have played first in 2nd turn and then got double turned, so my skink chief had it for 3 turns for 1 CP. It enables the chief to use its +1 attack CA instead.
3) Hero actions - quite good, but the low bravery really limits the healing. Their finest hour is awesome on the chief, he is wounding on 2s for that turn. And it works for shooting too.
4) Skink magic is great - Hand of Glory went from copying standard CA to being awesome. Another buff we can layer increasing the output.
5) Kroak - still good, mine died after taking 5w :-D.
6) Oracle - felt useless, no cc damage, and the range increasing ability for Kroak was not used once. Maybe in different matchup, but I don't know.
7) I have seen some people saying they will not play them now, one Basti felt great, good shooting (+1 to hit 1st round + hand of glory rerolls). Double shot first turn with the buffs for great effect.

Future changes:
1) Oracle, Guards out -> Starpriest, Starseer, Knights in
- Kroak should be ok without the guards with his CA, +1 to save spell, +1 to save CA
- great amount of CP
- more skink spells will be great, the staff buffs are also great and automatic
- enables taking 2 extra enhancement battalions - 5+ ward relic for EotG
- Knights will offer some mobility or additional screen layer for being safe against double turns from aggressive armies

 

[Nart]

6) Oracle - felt useless, no cc damage, and the range increasing ability for Kroak was not used once. Maybe in different matchup, but I don't know.

Yeah, Trog won't be very useful against armies, like Ogors or Orruks, who want to be in your face themselves. Against mid to long range armies trog is way more interesting.

I have seen some people saying they will not play them now, one Basti felt great, good shooting (+1 to hit 1st round + hand of glory rerolls). Double shot first turn with the buffs for great effect.

Have no idea who could said that. Basties gained only 15 pts and easier to buff than ever. Dual ones are way more questionable choice, but they can benifit from d6 movement battalion, and having a spare never hurts.

- Kroak should be ok without the guards with his CA, +1 to save spell, +1 to save CA

Only before you face stong ranged damage. It is easy to keep him safe against melee armies, but loss of cover and look out hurts alot.

 

[Zhalfirim]

Yeah I will have to test him with no protection against shooty SC, the new orks and KO I have in my meta. I am still not sure if it is not to my advantage if my opponent throws everything on buffed Kroak instead on the rest of my army, it can be even worth it in some cases. Generally the choice going all in on Kroak is quite hard, as the opportunity cost is massive.

But I think in case I need more protection for him, I will switch one of the skink casters to Eternity Guardian. He can do nearly as good job as the guards, the high bravery allows me to heal him better with the hero action if needed and it will still allow for 2 extra relics and CPs via battalions.

EDIT: There will be too many leaders in the list with the 2 skink casters. So unless I cut the EotG, I need to stick with only one (Starpriest). I think I will add the Cogs (they are really good now), change the knights back to guards and add 3 ripperdactyls to fill in the points, they will give the list also some movement, which is good.

 

[Nart]

Yeah I will have to test him with no protection against shooty SC, the new orks and KO I have in my meta. I am still not sure if it is not to my advantage if my opponent throws everything on buffed Kroak instead on the rest of my army, it can be even worth it in some cases. Generally the choice going all in on Kroak is quite hard, as the opportunity cost is massive.

It was a good strategy before, but way too risky now. And kharadron should have no problem at dealing 6-10 wounds to him in single shooting phase. It depedns on what your opponent fields, but standard ironclad+10 thunderers shouldn't have any problems.

 

[Tombomb7]

It was a good strategy before, but way too risky now. And kharadron should have no problem at dealing 6-10 wounds to him in single shooting phase. It depedns on what your opponent fields, but standard ironclad+10 thunderers shouldn't have any problems.

What if you have Saurus Gaurds and the AB 6+?