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AoS Make Saurus Guard great again?

tehcaptainawesome
Jungle Swarm

tehcaptainawesome

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I know it's a bit far fetched, but do you think the Guard might be a liable force again? At the moment they are really nothing more than Slann-Babysitters, which is not THAT bad.

What I mean is that in the previous edition there where more flexible due to the Ethernal Starhost and other shenanigans, where it was more or less viable to use them as your battleline, buff them up and block while dealing good damage.
The funniest shit I used to do was getting them to a +2 save with 1 rerollable to be the ultimate wall. I am a little sad that they are not that usable/ buffable at the moment in contrast to the earlier version, the Guards are one of my favorite units un the game, but not really that playable anymore.

Do you think they might get a chance to shine again? Or did you find some niche for them in a semi-competitve environment?
 
Their current niche of being extra wounds for a slann is a viable use of them though rather stupid to be frank. They're supposed to be the best of the best. The eternity Warden(another abomination in this edition) of the old world slayed a fucking daemon prince in moments before tanking a warpblast that would of killed his slann then watched over the weakened slann and chased off predators to wait for rescue for his slann
 
tehcaptainawesome said:
I know it's a bit far fetched, but do you think the Guard might be a liable force again? At the moment they are really nothing more than Slann-Babysitters, which is not THAT bad.

What I mean is that in the previous edition there where more flexible due to the Ethernal Starhost and other shenanigans, where it was more or less viable to use them as your battleline, buff them up and block while dealing good damage.
The funniest shit I used to do was getting them to a +2 save with 1 rerollable to be the ultimate wall. I am a little sad that they are not that usable/ buffable at the moment in contrast to the earlier version, the Guards are one of my favorite units un the game, but not really that playable anymore.

Do you think they might get a chance to shine again? Or did you find some niche for them in a semi-competitve environment?
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not with their rules as they are now. maybe in the next book or if the new general battalions favor them
 
tehcaptainawesome said:
Do you think they might get a chance to shine again? Or did you find some niche for them in a semi-competitve environment?
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Guard is perfectly viable. It is just that Saurus Knights are better in every single way, if built properly. If you are a big fan of guard, you can easily run them against other melee armies in Koatl's claw. They have a couple pros, which saurus lack:

1) Fewer model count mean that they are more likely to fit in the fight as a whole squad. If you bring saurus, only 20-30 models will strike simultaneously;
2) If saurus are beneath 15 models, they are little more than chaff, while guard doesn't lose damage potential over time;
3) Guard damage degrades more slowly, since they have 2 wounds per model;
4) They are 3+ to-hit, so, you will invest less CP to make them hit on 2's. In koatl's claw you don't need an oldblood at all to support guard, unless you expect to face mass -1 to-hit debuffs.

Saurus still win in numbers, damage potential and access to a battalion, but don't underestimate guard either.
 
Nart said:
Guard is perfectly viable. It is just that Saurus Knights are better in every single way, if built properly. If you are a big fan of guard, you can easily run them against other melee armies in Koatl's claw. They have a couple pros, which saurus lack:

1) Fewer model count mean that they are more likely to fit in the fight as a whole squad. If you bring saurus, only 20-30 models will strike simultaneously;
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this is also a major weakness as models hold Objectives. and you can often get much more warriors in since they have 2" reach
Nart said:
2) If saurus are beneath 15 models, they are little more than chaff, while guard doesn't lose damage potential over time;
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debatable as 15 spear saurus with one attack in sunclaw star will do just as much damage as 10 guard will.
Nart said:
3) Guard damage degrades more slowly, since they have 2 wounds per model;
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but they degrade from a much lower staring spot and don't buff as well.
Nart said:
4) They are 3+ to-hit, so, you will invest less CP to make them hit on 2's. In koatl's claw you don't need an oldblood at all to support guard, unless you expect to face mass -1 to-hit debuffs.
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true but you also don't need the buffing for warriors to just be better over all. this just gives warriors a higher damage sealing then guard do.
20 warriors(fighting 10 wide and 2 deep) in sunclaw unbuffed will do 6-11 on avrage and 10 guard(fighting 10 wide 2 deep) will do 4-8 so really the buffs don't matter

Nart said:
Saurus still win in numbers, damage potential and access to a battalion, but don't underestimate guard either.
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i do not underestimate guard i give them exactly as much credit as they disserve. can you run them? yes. but they are not the best or even the second best thing we have? no
 
Erta Wanderer said:
i do not underestimate guard i give them exactly as much credit as they disserve. can you run them? yes. but they are not the best or even the second best thing we have.
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Well, that was my point. I will always rate saurus list in KC over Guard list.

Erta Wanderer said:
debatable as 15 spear saurus with one attack in sunclaw star will do just as much damage as 10 guard will.
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What about templehost? Absolutely agree, that in Starborne guard are not even close to saurus.
 
Nart said:
Well, that was my point. I will always rate saurus list in KC over Guard list.



What about templehost? Absolutely agree, that in Starborne guard are not even close to saurus.
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i was comparing star warriors to coalesced temple guard as they are both at there best in those factions. i always compare units at their best
 
The issues i have with warriors vs guard is that the warriors wounds take up more space which is rather rubbish since they are also slow outside of a star borne teleport making them easier to tag and prevent movement of.
big blob of 1 wound models also makes battleshock an issue as each 1 damage done is a point towards battleshock.
the guard also have 2 attacks per model at 3s and 3s all of the time, warriors are 4s and 3s and only get more of their lower quality attacks when they are in a large number, which i previously stated is a problem for me.
Neither do a job better than knights do as they are faster, do a lot of damage for the points and take buffs excellently due to their high number of attacks.

the warriors battalion changes the situation a fair bit however, but outside of that i personally do not enjoy using warriors and ill just use guard as a rule of cool pick really over knights
 
Guard don't need much to be viable.

2" range would about do it, honestly.



But what I'd really rather see is them become more expensive and *much* better.
 
With 20 models per unit, 2" is not really that important. A battalion and a unique buff from Warden (like +1 save CA) would be enough to distinct them.
 
I dunno, who can really get more than 10 guard into a fight at once with 1" range? If I'm paying 400 points for a unit I'd really like them to be able to engage properly.
 
If people can get 20 club saurus in a fights, temple guard won't be a problem either.
 
Nart said:
If people can get 20 club saurus in a fights, temple guard won't be a problem either.
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we don't actually do that we use spears when 20 or more and clubs in 10 man. mainly due to the problem of getting 20 clubs into melee
 
Erta Wanderer said:
we don't actually do that we use spears when 20 or more and clubs in 10 man. mainly due to the problem of getting 20 clubs into melee
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Which reminds me, Saurus warriors should lose Ordered Cohort and just have two weapon attacks each.

Why are we getting horde bonuses anyways? Has that ever been the "thing" of Lizardmen?
 
ArtoriusaurusRex said:
Which reminds me, Saurus warriors should lose Ordered Cohort and just have two weapon attacks each.

Why are we getting horde bonuses anyways? Has that ever been the "thing" of Lizardmen?
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it has for the entirety of AoS
 
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