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AoS NEW *rumor*

I think that is right for Riders of Ruin. You charge something, or something charges you, and then in your movement phase you can just ride out of battle, doing damage to units you ride over, and set up your next charge for the charge phase.
 
Canas said:
Blood knights rule reveal

Nice enough statline.

Riders of ruin is neat, nice little cavalry ability. Bit oddly phrased though. Almost seems like you'l only do damage if you started within 3" of an enemy. Which can't be right. Might be a tad too powerfull though as it effectivly makes them impossible to lock down unless you fill up the entire board.

The kastelai bonusses are neat. Though I can imagine this quickly becoming problematic in certain match-ups. Especially as they can't be locked down into combat. Outmanouvering them is going to be difficult and that might make it far too easy for them to run up to a priority target to get one of these buffs.

Also, their weapon choices are purely cosmetic. Which is new, given how different the two weapons are. Maybe this is part of their effort to streamline rules?
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xoid said:
I think that is right for Riders of Ruin. You charge something, or something charges you, and then in your movement phase you can just ride out of battle, doing damage to units you ride over, and set up your next charge for the charge phase.
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Ugh!
 
So am I correct in reading that the blood knights only inflict mortal wounds if they move over a unit after already starting within 3" of an enemy unit? So they can't use that ability unless they're already engaged in combat at the start of the turn?
 
Tyranitar said:
So am I correct in reading that the blood knights only inflict mortal wounds if they move over a unit after already starting within 3" of an enemy unit? So they can't use that ability unless they're already engaged in combat at the start of the turn?
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that is correct as they only have fly when they use RR
 
Mitch the Scaly said:
So they can basically run over a unit they're already fighting then charge right back into their backs? Lmao
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Riders of ruin does not grant retreat and charge. A normal move that takes place within 3 is a retreat and is defined as such in the core rules. The faq linked also clarifies that point.


This specific language was probably to differentiate this type of move from the "retreat" charge reaction thats coming in 3.0.

Itll inevitably be irrelevant as they probably get retreat and charge some other way, but riders of ruin does not inherently grant it.
 

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Putzfrau said:
Riders of ruin does not grant retreat and charge. A normal move that takes place within 3 is a retreat and is defined as such in the core rules. The faq linked also clarifies that point.


This specific language was probably to differentiate this type of move from the "retreat" charge reaction thats coming in 3.0.

Itll inevitably be irrelevant as they probably get retreat and charge some other way, but riders of ruin does not inherently grant it.
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One of my gaming buddies disagrees with this assessment:
No, it does say a normal move, and does not say a retreat, but because they're within 3 inches, being given permission to just do a normal move would supercede the inability to do normal moves while within 3 inches.

One of those specific warscroll rule overriding core rulebook ect, it says they can do a Normal Move, so they can do a Normal move.
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In other words, whilst you are right in that the rule does not grant retreat and charge, it does grant the unit the ability to ignore being within 3" of an enemy unit for the purposes of starting a normal move. Cycle-charging may thus still be a thing so long as they have the space to do so.

Still, even if your assessment were to hold, Blood Knights are going to be really difficult to bog down with this special rule of theirs without swamping the board in cheap hordes.

In conjunction with the standardized battalions they're proposing for 3.0, I wouldn't be surprised if this will coincide with more standardized keywords (i.e. INFANTRY, CAVALRY, GUARD, etc). Even outside those battalions, we could expect to see some utility via general command abilities tied to them, among which may include the ability to retreat and charge.
 
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ChapterAquila92 said:
In conjunction with the standardized battalions they're proposing for 3.0, I wouldn't be surprised if this will coincide with more standardized keywords (i.e. INFANTRY, CAVALRY, GUARD, etc). Even outside those battalions, we could expect to see some utility via general command abilities tied to them, among which may include the ability to retreat and charge.
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Honestly, that might be great. Could help certain units perform a bit more appropriatly to their fluff...
 
Canas said:
Honestly, that might be great. Could help certain units perform a bit more appropriatly to their fluff...
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I'm honestly surprised that it's taken them this long to do it for AoS when keywords of this nature have been implemented in 40k as of 8th Edition, let alone in their special rules predecessors in 7th and earlier.
 
ChapterAquila92 said:
One of my gaming buddies disagrees with this assessment:


In other words, whilst you are right in that the rule does not grant retreat and charge, it does grant the unit the ability to ignore being within 3" of an enemy unit for the purposes of starting a normal move. Cycle-charging may thus still be a thing so long as they have the space to do so.

Still, even if your assessment were to hold, Blood Knights are going to be really difficult to bog down with this special rule of theirs without swamping the board in cheap hordes.

In conjunction with the standardized battalions they're proposing for 3.0, I wouldn't be surprised if this will coincide with more standardized keywords (i.e. INFANTRY, CAVALRY, GUARD, etc). Even outside those battalions, we could expect to see some utility via general command abilities tied to them, among which may include the ability to retreat and charge.
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There is no difference between a normal move that starts within 3 and a retreat. It's simply two ways to describe the exact same thing. There is nothing about the language that would grant exception and there's no way to define a retreat without calling it a "normal move that starts within 3."

Your friend states "it says they can do a normal move so they can do a normal move" and they are because every unit that retreats is making a normal move. Making a "normal move" and a "retreat" are not separate actions, and if you separate them it brings up a lot of wonky issues. The FAQ linked above really does help clarify a lot of this.

Also, I see this whole "specific over core" brought up all the time incorrectly. Specific only trumps core when the two abilities can't be congruent. This is not one of those cases.

Unfortunately, as of right now, Blood Knights do not have retreat and charge.
 
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Jason839 said:
honestly all cavalry should be able to run and charge and retreat and charge. it should matter that you are on a horse a lot more than it does in aos.
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I don't disagree at all, and I think the specific nature of the blood knight language probably has a lot to do with 3.0.

I guess all we can do is wait :(
 
Jason839 said:
honestly all cavalry should be able to run and charge and retreat and charge. it should matter that you are on a horse a lot more than it does in aos.
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Run + charge is already covered by giving them a higher base speed. The unmounted variant is pretty much universally slower than the mounted variant of the same unit.

As for being able to retreat and charge. There's a couple of issues

1) Cycle-charging using retreats isn't that much of a thing realisticly. Knights wouldn't charge, retreat, charge again. Retreating is dangerous. They'd charge, crush the enemy's line and come out on the other side, turn around and charge again.

2) You'd need quite a run-up to do a charge. We all know that in AoS you'd just see people retreating 4" then charge back in for their charge bonus if they could.

3) Balance-wise this might be a nightmare. Cavalry (and big monsters) are already often devestating on the charge. If they can easily cycle charge some of this is going to be hilariously powerfull as they will pretty much always have their bonus. Not to mention how it'd quickly make screening futile as it'd be impossible to lock them in combat for any prolonged period of time. Especially with certian specific units, like maw-krusha's or beastclaw raider stuff.

If you'd want cavalry (and big monsters) to be able to do that it's going to take some big changes.
 
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