AoS Ally Vanguard raptors with long strikes and aether wings

[Jason839]

1 unit of 3 vanguard-raptors with long strikes and 2-3 units of 3 aetherwings. A lot of fangs lists that I see are starting to run this package. Seems very impressive for stopping turn 1 charges and letting your skinks survive without taking damage. What do you all think about it?

 

[PabloTho]

I'm not a Fangs player, but with the points needed to bring raptors and a couple of aetherwings units I could drop another units of 40 skinks on the table who would get to shoot whatever is charging them anyway.

I guess the drawback is that you might not have a CP to burn on turn 1 - is it common to run a battalion in FoS, giving you the extra CP? I'm used to Thunder Lizard and Koatl's claw where TQ Templehost and Firelance Templehost are pretty much essential

 

[Nart]

Yes, reports they, that idea is very nice. And raptors contribute to damage too (chance of additional mws is never bad). Birds are fast, and, unlike skinks, they prevent charges completely, sacrificing themselves.

One of the best exaples is BCR, who can destroy skink screens on charge an then pile-in into the other units with additional damage. Same with stuff like idoneth, who could fly over screens.

 

[Tav]

they are an easy add in to replace one of your damage dealing units such as 10 or 15 chameleons. they have a decent long range attack so its not like you completely miss out. But overall fangs already has defence against combat via parting shot so i would only ever consider it for dracothians tail builds

 

[Jason839]

they are an easy add in to replace one of your damage dealing units such as 10 or 15 chameleons. they have a decent long range attack so its not like you completely miss out. But overall fangs already has defence against combat via parting shot so i would only ever consider it for dracothians tail builds

Dracothians tail doesn't need it as everything important should be off the board and whats left should be screened by min skinks. When I play Fangs i never go first, and I dont have a bunch of cp yet, and my units are very vulnerable to being charged turn 1. This setup stops that. I feel that its super valuable to do.

Eels, morathi, fyreslayers, teleporting chaos warriors, Ironjaws, there are a lot of turn 1 charges at the moment.

 

[Nart]

Even in draco's tail birds allow additional flexibility, as you can spread your skinks more and invest in damage. I know a guy who runs them with DT and likes it a lot.

 

[Tav]

Dracothians tail doesn't need it as everything important should be off the board and whats left should be screened by min skinks. When I play Fangs i never go first, and I dont have a bunch of cp yet, and my units are very vulnerable to being charged turn 1. This setup stops that. I feel that its super valuable to do.

Eels, morathi, fyreslayers, teleporting chaos warriors, Ironjaws, there are a lot of turn 1 charges at the moment.

In fangs intend to either set up so that i dont require a CP, or buy a CP.
I prefer not having to spend the points on the raptors and wings

 

[Putzfrau]

Dracothians tail doesn't need it as everything important should be off the board and whats left should be screened by min skinks. When I play Fangs i never go first, and I dont have a bunch of cp yet, and my units are very vulnerable to being charged turn 1. This setup stops that. I feel that its super valuable to do.

Eels, morathi, fyreslayers, teleporting chaos warriors, Ironjaws, there are a lot of turn 1 charges at the moment.

I'm surprised you aren't being forced to go first more often with Fangs. I've found in most of my games people just aren't willing to take a double from seraphon.

 

[Jason839]

I'm surprised you aren't being forced to go first more often with Fangs. I've found in most of my games people just aren't willing to take a double from seraphon.

Everyone I play against is taking armies fully capable of crippling or outright killing 80 skinks top of 1. Usually they can do a bunch of damage and mitigate the double.

 

[Putzfrau]

Everyone I play against is taking armies fully capable of crippling or outright killing 80 skinks top of 1. Usually they can do a bunch of damage and mitigate the double.

Very interesting. What armies have the firepower and the range to kill 2 40 blocks? I've literally never lost more than a single 40 block, so i'm just very intrigued.

 

[Jason839]

Very interesting. What armies have the firepower and the range to kill 2 40 blocks? I've literally never lost more than a single 40 block, so i'm just very intrigued.

As far as outright killing its not many. Mostly shooting armies that tend to do enough to finish the unit off in battleshock. Our meta is a bunch of lumineth with either 40 sentinels and teclis with spellportals for his nukes, or 80 sentinels and no teclis. Then we have a couple KO players with their shooting. 1 guy does really well with a gunline cities of sigmar list. Lots have been able to cripple the units though. Dok boat combo with double tapping snakes and a turn 1 god morathi charge, One guy plays the all in t1 goregrunta charge list. Another guy plays double rogue idols. Some IDK alpha strike lists and some OBR with 2-3 crawlers that can kill the heroes and make the skinks pretty bad.

Fangs has always felt rough to me, because unlike DT, I cant deploy out of range and keep my buffs. All my stuff has to be close together to work, and I have these big 40 man units that are not always able to deploy easily around the terrain we have. So I kinda feel forced to either deploy on the line and take it to the chin, then hope whatever is left can get the job done, Or deploy so passively that I give up a huge early pt lead that I lose even if I eventually table the opponent. I know some people like to take the extra command point, so that on turn 1 they can keep at least 1 unit from getting battleshocked to death, but then you are left with like a 15-25 man unit of skinks and that is still a huge blow to damage output.

This is part of why the birds excite me so much. If I have to deploy cautiously, I can run the birds onto objectives so I dont sacrifice as many points. Against aggressive melee armies I can deploy on the line and not worry about getting charged because the birds will sacrifice themselves to stop it. It really feels like a great addition to the army.

 

[Putzfrau]

As far as outright killing its not many. Mostly shooting armies that tend to do enough to finish the unit off in battleshock. Our meta is a bunch of lumineth with either 40 sentinels and teclis with spellportals for his nukes, or 80 sentinels and no teclis. Then we have a couple KO players with their shooting. 1 guy does really well with a gunline cities of sigmar list. Lots have been able to cripple the units though. Dok boat combo with double tapping snakes and a turn 1 god morathi charge, One guy plays the all in t1 goregrunta charge list. Another guy plays double rogue idols. Some IDK alpha strike lists and some OBR with 2-3 crawlers that can kill the heroes and make the skinks pretty bad.

Fangs has always felt rough to me, because unlike DT, I cant deploy out of range and keep my buffs. All my stuff has to be close together to work, and I have these big 40 man units that are not always able to deploy easily around the terrain we have. So I kinda feel forced to either deploy on the line and take it to the chin, then hope whatever is left can get the job done, Or deploy so passively that I give up a huge early pt lead that I lose even if I eventually table the opponent. I know some people like to take the extra command point, so that on turn 1 they can keep at least 1 unit from getting battleshocked to death, but then you are left with like a 15-25 man unit of skinks and that is still a huge blow to damage output.

This is part of why the birds excite me so much. If I have to deploy cautiously, I can run the birds onto objectives so I dont sacrifice as many points. Against aggressive melee armies I can deploy on the line and not worry about getting charged because the birds will sacrifice themselves to stop it. It really feels like a great addition to the army.

Makes sense. I'm one of those people that bring a CP and double 40's. I usually deploy one out front that can function as a screen or if they give me first can alpha and one basically on the board edge with the rest of my stuff.

Can't say i've ever played against 40 sentinels but have played agains ta ton of KO, DoK, IDK and cities and i'm still pretty consistently getting first turn, always interesting to see how different metas adapt. I've found if i'm given the double its pretty much just game over, the amount of damage you can put out is too much for almost any army.

I actually think in the best players hands, dracos tail is probably the better option. It does everything fangs does and can win games without even rolling dice. Parting shot is often just a "win more" ability but dracos plays so differently i just dont wanna start learning how those matchups go lol. I've also foudn that first turn movement really makes maximizing salamander threat ranges pretty helpful. Ultimately i think both are pretty similar and it comes down to what specific armies you're playing.

I do like the raptors in dracos tail, i just also think seraphon units are so efficient its hard to trade them out for allies of equal value. Do. you run a trog in your dracos tail list? I think the trog is INSANELY good in dracos tail when you're porting kroak around.

 

[Jason839]

Makes sense. I'm one of those people that bring a CP and double 40's. I usually deploy one out front that can function as a screen or if they give me first can alpha and one basically on the board edge with the rest of my stuff.

Can't say i've ever played against 40 sentinels but have played agains ta ton of KO, DoK, IDK and cities and i'm still pretty consistently getting first turn, always interesting to see how different metas adapt. I've found if i'm given the double its pretty much just game over, the amount of damage you can put out is too much for almost any army.

I actually think in the best players hands, dracos tail is probably the better option. It does everything fangs does and can win games without even rolling dice. Parting shot is often just a "win more" ability but dracos plays so differently i just dont wanna start learning how those matchups go lol. I've also foudn that first turn movement really makes maximizing salamander threat ranges pretty helpful. Ultimately i think both are pretty similar and it comes down to what specific armies you're playing.

I do like the raptors in dracos tail, i just also think seraphon units are so efficient its hard to trade them out for allies of equal value. Do. you run a trog in your dracos tail list? I think the trog is INSANELY good in dracos tail when you're porting kroak around.

Yeah I also feel like DT is probably the stronger list if two skilled people are playing. I havent taken trog in a long time. Ive been taking Kroak+slann starmaster instead. I will have to try the birds out in DT and see how much of a difference it makes.

 

[Tav]

being able to play kroak far more offensively by either having a trog or bringing more guards so that he can affect more of the board turn 1 is huge. dracos tail with salamanders sitting in reserve is so good. you can just project power so effectively and put all of the units exactly where you need them