AoS How to include and use Sylvaneth allies

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

Morning, everyone!

So, I've been mulling around the idea of including a couple Sylvaneth units in my Seraphon army once in awhile. Mostly because I absolutely adore the Treelord Ancient model. And while I know Sylvaneth are pretty bad, I wonder if there is any effective way to make use of them for us.

I like the models, but I don't like shooting myself in the foot

So, theoretically, what's the best way to put some Sylvaneth (hopefully including a Treelord Ancient) in a Seraphon list? I've heard of people taking Kurnoth Hunters, but I must say they just seem like alternative Kroxigors (at least, with sword/scythe).


Or is this just altogether a bad idea?

 

[Jason839]

Morning, everyone!

So, I've been mulling around the idea of including a couple Sylvaneth units in my Seraphon army once in awhile. Mostly because I absolutely adore the Treelord Ancient model. And while I know Sylvaneth are pretty bad, I wonder if there is any effective way to make use of them for us.

I like the models, but I don't like shooting myself in the foot

So, theoretically, what's the best way to put some Sylvaneth (hopefully including a Treelord Ancient) in a Seraphon list? I've heard of people taking Kurnoth Hunters, but I must say they just seem like alternative Kroxigors (at least, with sword/scythe).


Or is this just altogether a bad idea?

I like them as a summoning source in Coalesced. Take an ancient and branchwraith along with celestial equilibrium spell on your slann. Ancient uses once per game ability to make forest. slann casts celestial equilibrium buffing the casting of all friendly wizards. Branchwraith casts roused to wrath needing a 6 now to summon 10 dryads. Pretty reliable summons every turn, and a LoS blocking forest.

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

I like them as a summoning source in Coalesced. Take an ancient and branchwraith along with celestial equilibrium spell on your slann. Ancient uses once per game ability to make forest. slann casts celestial equilibrium buffing the casting of all friendly wizards. Branchwraith casts roused to wrath needing a 6 now to summon 10 dryads. Pretty reliable summons every turn, and a LoS blocking forest.

Hmm, okay, that makes sense.

So, something like this?

-----------------------

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Skink Priest (70)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Vast Intellect - Celestial Equilibrium
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Branchwraith (80)
- Allies
Treelord Ancient (260)
- Allies
40 x Saurus Warriors (320)
- Spears
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 340 / 400
Wounds: 137

 

[Carnikang]

I was thinking something similar when our time first came out. It's an interesting but of utility, and you're usually going to go Coalesced unless your specifically building an odd summoning list.

As for your list, it's interesting. Do you have plans to play it?

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

I was thinking something similar when our time first came out. It's an interesting but of utility, and you're usually going to go Coalesced unless your specifically building an odd summoning list.

As for your list, it's interesting. Do you have plans to play it?

I think I'd like to try it, at some point, but I do not own the Sylvaneth stuff just yet. Maybe I'll give it a go on TTS

 

[Nart]

The best usage of allies is, probably, taking tree revenants and dropping them on objectives. Other sylvaneth units don't bring any competitive value, IMO.

 

[Carnikang]

The best usage of allies is, probably, taking tree revenants and dropping them on objectives. Other sylvaneth units don't bring any competitive value, IMO.

Disagree, a treelord ancient dropping a wylde wood is a big no go zone that gives plenty of board control.
The Revenants are tech, for sure, but they're not the only thing that can be used competitively.

 

[Nart]

Disagree, a treelord ancient dropping a wylde wood is a big no go zone that gives plenty of board control.
The Revenants are tech, for sure, but they're not the only thing that can be used competitively.

Sure, but giving up 260 points for it is too much, IMO. If you need area denial, simply take Realmshaper for free.

 

[Jason839]

I think its also worth mentioning that Any treemen allies you take bring stomps. 4+ make that guy fight last is pretty useful for melee seraphon. You could also go in on this. 360 would give you 2 treelords. they arent the best, but they are cheap behemoths, bring stomps and will draw some fire away from your carnos.

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- Warblade
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (230)
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Hand of Glory
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
Treelord (180)
- Allies
Treelord (180)
- Allies
Firelance Temple-host (160)
Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 360 / 400
Wounds: 137

 

[Carnikang]

Sure, but giving up 260 points for it is too much, IMO. If you need area denial, simply take Realmshaper for free.

Realmshaper isn't really Area denial. Even by that parameter it is lacking. Enemies can't garrison the trees, and they can be placed during the game. 260 is not that expensive for that utility, especially as a punchy treeman.

This is all coming from the perspective of just playing to play well, and not take swarms of skinks to use FoS.
You'll compete alongside a lot of armies, and find youre still going to do well. You probably won't do well taking this into Changehost with a compatibly good player.

 

[Nart]

Realmshaper isn't really Area denial. Even by that parameter it is lacking. Enemies can't garrison the trees, and they can be placed during the game. 260 is not that expensive for that utility, especially as a punchy treeman.

"Enemy can garrison in RSE" is more of a boogeyman than actual problem, if you really need area denial. They have to finish move near it and will be able to garrison it only the next turn. Unless you are placing it in one's deployment, it is highly unlikely the enemy will garrison it. It is a huge obstacle, which opponent has to find a way around.

Trees provides line of sight and cover, and I'd argue, that they can be used to enemies advantage more likely than RSE. It will be rare case too, but it doesn't take whole movement phase to take advantage of cover/los.

And I don't see how 260 points is not expensive. Slann costs 260 points, 2 salamanders cost 220 points, chief on stegadon costs 250 points. It is by no means not expensive. Treeman's profile is strictly worse than any of our behemoths.

This is all coming from the perspective of just playing to play well, and not take swarms of skinks to use FoS.
You'll compete alongside a lot of armies, and find youre still going to do well. You probably won't do well taking this into Changehost with a compatibly good player.

Agreed, Sylvaneth are fun and interesting to try, but they don't do anything we can't do better.

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

Agreed, Sylvaneth are fun and interesting to try, but they don't do anything we can't do better.

I'd like to see the math on the reliability of their summoning (with and without a boost from celestial equilibrium) versus the odds of us summoning 10 skinks, if we start at 0 CCP

 

[erians]

I'd like to see the math on the reliability of their summoning (with and without a boost from celestial equilibrium) versus the odds of us summoning 10 skinks, if we start at 0 CCP

I've faced the dryad factory set up several times and I've never seen it pay off. The investment is huge and it pay off is low. Even if your spells doesn't get disrupted and you don't fail any rolls you are still summoning factionless dryads, which are bad. Even if they were threat, with only 1 wildwood you run the risk of the enemy just screening you out by placing something inside or close to the wyldwood.

As Nart mentioned, anything Sylvaneth can do we can do better. If you are min/maxing, you're not taking Sylvaneth allies. Seraphon are strong enough to afford soft choices and still be stronger than a lot of other armies, but you are definitely "shooting yourself in the foot" by taking Sylvaneth.