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AoS NEW *rumor*

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Carnikang said:
That's only if their Sunmetal weapons rule is the same as the rest of the army. Hopefully it is, so it only goes off using Flurry.

But 5 for 100? Temple guard doth protest much.
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Apparently they don't have sunmetal at all.
 
260 points for the twins is the same as a Slann, i guess it'd be hard to find a place for them in most armies
 
Well,

Point-wise, everything seems on the cheap side? Suprisingly little in the 150+ bracket. Would've expected some of their more elite troops to be more expensive, ah well.

Ellannia & Ellathor are weird. On the one hand they're oddly sturdy (3+ save, 5+ ward-save, D6 heal, a free but forced teleport) on the other hand it only has 8 wounds making it still possible to just kill it in one turn. Same with it's damage, turn 1-3 it's not that bad, turn 4-5 it basicly kills everything it looks at. Probably going to be annoying both for the player using it and whoever is facing it....

Swordmasters: I wish saurus guard had those stat-lines. I'm curious if sunmetal weapons is becoming a faction ability though or maybe a battalion baility. Given that their swords are still called "sunmetal greatblades". Seems odd for them to not have the ability. Admittadly they don't exactly need it. Anyways, unbuffed they seem fine-ish, if potentially a bit annoying due to their two weapon profiles. If they can get acces to significant buffs then they might become actually problematic though.

Lyrior: only 6 wounds? Free command points but no command ability? Seems like he's supposed to fullfill a similar niche as the mounted SCE heroes based on his offensive stats, but with only 6 wounds he's probably a bit squishy for that. Weird unit.

Ballista: Much like everything else, super reliable. One balista might not be a terrible threat, but having to deal with 3/2+/3+/-2/D3 for only a 100 points isn't much fun... And having several balista's combined with their archers is just going to be painfull to face.

loreseeker: again free cp with no command ability. Weirdly powerfull in combat, but fairly squishy. It's deepstrike ability is kind of ridiculous and might allow it to do some surprise damage and steal an objective, but it won't survive long, especially on its own. So again, weird unit.

windmage: meh. Melee weapon is surprisingly strong for a wizard, but nothing special beyond that. Blowing back ranged attacks is interesting, but not amazing.

Severith: Destroying faction terrain is just really really lame.. especially on a model that can move 36" per turn. It's not like you're going to be able to stop him from just running up to it with that kinda speed. In general his speed seems somewhat absurd. Also, his potential damage output seems high in the hands of a good player who abuses his movement and bonus damage. At least he's fairly squishy, possibly even so squishy that he won't actually see that much play. Again, weird balance between offense and defense.

Windchargers: Why does it bow get more rend in melee? Anyways, decent enough damage, but nothing amazing. It does have rather a massive threat range though with it's range and high speed.

bannerblade: Bravery just isn't supposed to matter for lumineth is it? Given the amount of bonusses to bravery and protection from battleshock they get from everywhere.... The world banners one-time ability also seems rather powerfull. Though I'm not sure if he'd last long enough to actually use it, seems like something you'd just shoot of the table first chance you get.

calligrave: .... see previous comment about bravery just not mattering. The hell kind of ridiculous ability is that..The erasure spell is interesting. A spell that actually requires a set-up.

Overall; weirdly efficient offensive stats with mostly low defensive stats, mostly low pointcosts, some reaaaaallly annoying rules in there that just negate entire mechanics.
 
huh ok i missed this when it came out but it is by far the most worrying ability that LRL have
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this means you can not pin them you can not flank them. skreens do not work on them,they can just charge and then jump the line meaning you have to keep a 9" buffer. they essentially have a 3-6" wary fighter an all their units. they took that ability away from us for a reason and now LRL can put that on their entire army.
 
Canas said:
Point-wise, everything seems on the cheap side? Suprisingly little in the 150+ bracket. Would've expected some of their more elite troops to be more expensive, ah well.
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Loreseeker and Scribe looks too cheap, but other stuff is priced fine.

Canas said:
Ellannia & Ellathor are weird. On the one hand they're oddly sturdy (3+ save, 5+ ward-save, D6 heal, a free but forced teleport) on the other hand it only has 8 wounds making it still possible to just kill it in one turn. Same with it's damage, turn 1-3 it's not that bad, turn 4-5 it basicly kills everything it looks at. Probably going to be annoying both for the player using it and whoever is facing it....
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After the first BT everyone has been freaking out of how Light of Eltharion is OP, unkillable and will slaughter armies on it's own. I've seen him once in a top 3 list since then. And this couple is even worse. For 260 pts LRL player can take 10 riders and gain both damage and mobility.

Canas said:
Swordmasters: I wish saurus guard had those stat-lines. I'm curious if sunmetal weapons is becoming a faction ability though or maybe a battalion baility. Given that their swords are still called "sunmetal greatblades". Seems odd for them to not have the ability. Admittadly they don't exactly need it. Anyways, unbuffed they seem fine-ish, if potentially a bit annoying due to their two weapon profiles. If they can get acces to significant buffs then they might become actually problematic though.
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They don't have sunmetal. I don't see how saurus guard is worse. They both have their strong sides. To a single target, Guard unit can potentially deal more damage, while blademasters' damage are more reliable and they are better against hordes. But they are slow and their defence is low in terms of current meta. Their saving grace is bodyguard rule and nothing more. They are fair at 120 pts.

Canas said:
Lyrior: only 6 wounds? Free command points but no command ability? Seems like he's supposed to fullfill a similar niche as the mounted SCE heroes based on his offensive stats, but with only 6 wounds he's probably a bit squishy for that. Weird unit.
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At 210 pts, he just won't pay off. Lords pay too much for their defensive stats, but they lack proper support functions.

Canas said:
Ballista: Much like everything else, super reliable. One balista might not be a terrible threat, but having to deal with 3/2+/3+/-2/D3 for only a 100 points isn't much fun... And having several balista's combined with their archers is just going to be painfull to face.
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A dedicated shooting unit, which is a bit better than our starseer's shooting staff. And, unlike archers, one may hide behind a LoS from it. I see no reason to take it over sentinels, except points.

Canas said:
loreseeker: again free cp with no command ability. Weirdly powerfull in combat, but fairly squishy. It's deepstrike ability is kind of ridiculous and might allow it to do some surprise damage and steal an objective, but it won't survive long, especially on its own. So again, weird unit.
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He can potentially roadblock enemy units turn 1, but you are giving up a 160 pts hero. However, if you want some support enemy hero to die turn 1, it can do some serious work. I don't know needs testing.

Canas said:
windmage: meh. Melee weapon is surprisingly strong for a wizard, but nothing special beyond that. Blowing back ranged attacks is interesting, but not amazing
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Warscroll is bad, but new lore is very strong. I can see him being taken for more spells.

Canas said:
Severith: Destroying faction terrain is just really really lame.. especially on a model that can move 36" per turn. It's not like you're going to be able to stop him from just running up to it with that kinda speed. In general his speed seems somewhat absurd. Also, his potential damage output seems high in the hands of a good player who abuses his movement and bonus damage. At least he's fairly squishy, possibly even so squishy that he won't actually see that much play. Again, weird balance between offense and defense.
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For 300 pts he is just not worth it. He has insane speed but as soon as he is in front of enemy units, he will be terminated. I could see him hiding behind the lines till turn 3 and then jump out and mess with enemy plans and killing some important stuff, but... 300 pts is half of Teclis. Lumineth is a very expensive faction. You can take 20 sentinels/wardens for cheaper. Top tier factions do not rely on terrain that much anyway.

Canas said:
Windchargers: Why does it bow get more rend in melee? Anyways, decent enough damage, but nothing amazing. It does have rather a massive threat range though with it's range and high speed.
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In some cases, they can replace riders. They can take down wounded heroes, which are not finished by spells and sentinels. But riders are tougher and much better at horde-killing. I doubt we will see a lot of them.

Canas said:
bannerblade: Bravery just isn't supposed to matter for lumineth is it? Given the amount of bonusses to bravery and protection from battleshock they get from everywhere.... The world banners one-time ability also seems rather powerfull. Though I'm not sure if he'd last long enough to actually use it, seems like something you'd just shoot of the table first chance you get.
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Well, bravery is a serious problem for lumineth in mid-game, but giving up a 100 pts for it... I doubt it is worth is.

Canas said:
calligrave: .... see previous comment about bravery just not mattering. The hell kind of ridiculous ability is that..The erasure spell is interesting. A spell that actually requires a set-up.
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He is really cheap for what it can do, but in first turn his ability is unreliable and in second you will roll 1 or 2 in some games. So, I would take him only for his spell. On the other hand, lumineth already have so much sniping potential, I am not sure he is that important.

Canas said:
Overall; weirdly efficient offensive stats with mostly low defensive stats, mostly low pointcosts, some reaaaaallly annoying rules in there that just negate entire mechanics.
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Sometimes, I feel like GW's trying to create an army, which is not tier S, but have maximum NPE. New wind lore buffed Teclis even further without any point increases.

Erta Wanderer said:
huh ok i missed this when it came out but it is by far the most worrying ability that LRL have
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It is only for mage, fox and kangoroos. And I doubt we will see much of them.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
if that is native to kangaroos then im getting 2-3 units for my cities army that is a krazy ability.
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I doubt it. It is part of Lumineth allegiance, which affects only Hurakan units.
 
Nart said:
Loreseeker and Scribe looks too cheap, but other stuff is priced fine.
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Not necesarly saying they're underpriced, it just surprises me they have so little at 150+. For a fairly "elite" MSU army they have surprisingly few truly expensive units. It's mostly in the 100-150 range.

Nart said:
After the first BT everyone has been freaking out of how Light of Eltharion is OP, unkillable and will slaughter armies on it's own. I've seen him once in a top 3 list since then. And this couple is even worse. For 260 pts LRL player can take 10 riders and gain both damage and mobility.
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I'm not expecting the twins to be a common pick, they seem difficult to use effectivly. However, I am expecting them to be a source of frustrating whenever they are picked. They're very similar to Eltharion, ridiculously powerfull in the right scenario, but setting up that scenario is too diffcult in practise to allow them to be used in tournaments (but not in more casual play.. where they're liable to be super annoying cuz of it.). And I don't like that kind of design.

Nart said:
They don't have sunmetal. I don't see how saurus guard is worse. They both have their strong sides. To a single target, Guard unit can potentially deal more damage, while blademasters' damage are more reliable and they are better against hordes. But they are slow and their defence is low in terms of current meta. Their saving grace is bodyguard rule and nothing more. They are fair at 120 pts.
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- They're better offensivly than guard, and can actually pose a decent threat on their own should it be needed.
- Guard have higher max damage single target, but they're unlikely to actually do that damage. I'd rather have the reliability of the bladelords
- They can guard more than 1 unit, instead of being tied to just the slann
- They get an actual defensive bonus, in their case against spells. Which again makes them much more capable of doing stuff independently.

Also, they're slightly faster than guards.

They're not necesarly overpowered, they just do things I'd like to see guards do. Especially if there's also a nice battalion or other synergy to throw at then.

Also, their reliability can be a source of frustration. Though this is an issue for the entire lumineth army. Since they basicly only have 3+ and 2+'s for to hit and wound, alongside copious amounts of rend they'l rarely whiff an attack. And it isn't particularly fun to be subjected to that in a dice game, feels unfair if you're opponent virtually always hits whenever he tries to.

Nart said:
A dedicated shooting unit, which is a bit better than our starseer's shooting staff. And, unlike archers, one may hide behind a LoS from it. I see no reason to take it over sentinels, except points.
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That's my point. It seems rather cheap for only a 100 points. If it stands still and has a hero "nearby"(why is the range on messenger bird so large?) it has 3/2+/3+/-2/D3. That's a decent chunk of firepower at 30" for quite cheap.

Nart said:
He can potentially roadblock enemy units turn 1, but you are giving up a 160 pts hero. However, if you want some support enemy hero to die turn 1, it can do some serious work. I don't know needs testing.
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Yeah, it's a very odd one. Unless they have something else to quickly send him support it just seems like a suicidal charge to distract your opponent for a turn. Might be worth it, but definitly weird.

Nart said:
For 300 pts he is just not worth it. He has insane speed but as soon as he is in front of enemy units, he will be terminated. I could see him hiding behind the lines till turn 3 and then jump out and mess with enemy plans and killing some important stuff, but... 300 pts is half of Teclis. Lumineth is a very expensive faction. You can take 20 sentinels/wardens for cheaper.
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Yeah, he's expensive, and quite squishy. I mostly see him being super annoying in the hands of that one player who does know how to use him. A good player abusing his movement, shooting, and special rules could turn him into an absolute horror to deal with, especially against a melee army. He has the potential to be impossible to catch for melee armies.

Again, probably not going to see much tournament play, but much like Eltharion and the twins it has the potential for some absolutly ridiculous plays if the situation is right.

Nart said:
Top tier factions do not rely on terrain that much anyway.
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Might be, don't care. It's distinctly unfun to be able to just destroy or negate special faction specific abilities for no reason. And this should just not be an ability that exists.

Nart said:
Well, bravery is a serious problem for lumineth in mid-game, but giving up a 100 pts for it... I doubt it is worth is.
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I mean, is bravery still a problem when you got CP falling from the sky and every other hero seems to have an ability to buff bravery or negate battleshock in some way?


Nart said:
Sometimes, I feel like GW's trying to create an army, which is not tier S, but have maximum NPE. New wind lore buffed Teclis even further without any point increases
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Yeah, like someone mentioned earlier here, or in that NPE topic; Lumineth feel like it's made to specificly be annoying and counter everything. That kid on the playground that goes like "yeah, but my guys are brilliant archers, and perfect swordsmen, and they never miss, and they are shiny so they blind you and they all know magic, and they're perfect and can do everything better than you can." It's not necesarly OP, but it doesn't look like much fun to play against.


Nart said:
It is only for mage, fox and kangoroos. And I doubt we will see much of them.
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I think this alone will give a reason to use the kangaroos. It's simply too easy to get past a screen and kill some support heroes if you abuse this.
 
I had a game against lumineth in tts. Total commitment.

His list was:

Regent
Cathallar
Loreseeker
Hurakan Fox (not named one)
Windmage
20x wardens
2x10 archers
5x kangoroo
10 and 5 blademasters
twinstones
ward spell
shrine

Mine was double battalion thunderlizard - kroak, priest, eotg, oldblood on carno, 30 warriros, 2x bastiladons, salamander.

He gave up turn 2 after my double turn. I wiped out his archers and blademasters with bastiladons and eotg. He managed to cast total eclipse with twinstones, so I was hitting on 5+ almost all the time and still managed to deal enought damage. Without teclis, lumineth simply fall apart.
 
Nart said:
I had a game against lumineth in tts. Total commitment.

His list was:

Regent
Cathallar
Loreseeker
Hurakan Fox (not named one)
Windmage
20x wardens
2x10 archers
5x kangoroo
10 and 5 blademasters
twinstones
ward spell
shrine

Mine was double battalion thunderlizard - kroak, priest, eotg, oldblood on carno, 30 warriros, 2x bastiladons, salamander.

He gave up turn 2 after my double turn. I wiped out his archers and blademasters with bastiladons and eotg. He managed to cast total eclipse with twinstones, so I was hitting on 5+ almost all the time and still managed to deal enought damage. Without teclis, lumineth simply fall apart.
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Great job! I feel like the blade masters may have been a poor investment though. I'm really not convinced by them.
 
Lore of the Winds
1. Forbid enemy unit to run;
2. Forbid to use command abilities on a unit;
3. +6" to range of missile weapons OR +1 to-hit;
4. Heal d3 wound and immune to battleshock;
5. Mortal wounds per model on 6+, 5+ if cast have been 10+;
6. Teleport a unit.

Battalions:
- Hurrakan. 1 Spirit, 1 Windmage, 1-3 kangoroos. Units counts as charge if wholly with 12 of hero;
- Ballisats. 1 Scribe, 3-5 ballists. Ward goes to 5+, if within 3" of another ballista;
- Blademasters. 1 Vanari or Scinary hero. 2-3 Blademaster units. Reroll 1's to-hit if charged.

Overall, I feel like the book only buffed existing builds. Teclis have become even better and forbids even more stuff. Now he can heal at will - inability to heal have been one of his few weaknesses. Sentinels have threat range of 48" with speed of hysh and +6 to range. Wardens can teleport. You can hide Cathallar in shrine for additional -1 to-hit and +1 save and can protect her with blademasters. Battalions are expensive and not impressive at all. I think, auralan legion is still the best.

I expect LRL builds to stay as they are with a couple of tweaks, like adding a windmage, taking roos instead of horsemen, etc. Teclis is still a central model and he is even better now.
 
Nart said:
I expect LRL builds to stay as they are with a couple of tweaks, like adding a windmage, taking roos instead of horsemen, etc. Teclis is still a central model and he is even better now.
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Yeah, unlike a lot of other big hero models Teclis is pretty much an auto-include for Lumineth. Makes me wonder what Maleki... I mean Malerion will look like when he comes out. And since GW loves the Lumineth so much, I wouldn't be surprised if they got Tyrion as well down the line...
 
With soulbound’s Seraphon stuff coming in a few months and the NDA weirdness they’ve had with it, combined with kroak ascending from the store once again, AND with next month’s white dwarf covering something seraphon-y, it’s hard not to start hoping something is happening with the lizards in the narrative
 
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