AoS Struggling with Fundamentals

[Putzfrau]

I understand, but we also play casual games so I wouldn't want to invest extra founds into tons of Skinks or salamanders. I'm trying to build my army around Saurus stuff but now I see they tend to be a bit slow.

Usually I play Koatl's Claw but my last game was a starborne great plan involving appear on command. But as you saw in my previous post it failed don't get me wrong I love being the underdog and fighting stronger, more challenging opponent's. But having a rather non shooting army I need to think twice what to take with me for the next game.

that's fair man, don't let it get you down!

If you're playing in a casual setting its also no harm in asking your opponent to tone down his list. If you're struggling on how to deal with a block of 20, maybe ask him to run a block of 10 instead. Or sometimes its actually fun to just totally switch armies (if this is someone you are comfortable doing that with) just to get a feel for how the list your struggling against actually plays.

Coalesced/KC is definitely going to struggle a tiny bit more than starborne into LRL just cause you can't deploy in a corner somewhere and teleport into relevancy AND our biggest strength (-1 damage) does nothing to them. But i still think you can do it!

Edit: to add a bit more, I totally sympathize dude. LRL is actually me least favorite army to go up against and beat me all the time so I'm right there with you. Most lists heavily rely on the cathallar to do anything and their battleshock is a problem without it. They generally have 1 turn of big survivability with their aetherquartz spend and shining company but mortals still wreck them especially cause they are pretty expensive per wound. Saurus guard are a great addition and really mess with a lumineth players decision making when it comes to their archers. Means they either gotta ignore kroak entirely or focus him over several turns and kroak is a problem for lrl. Terradons are also pretty good with their huge mortal wound possibility. What list are you bringing?

Good luck!

 

[Kilvakar]

I would advise getting maybe one box of Skinks at least so that you can use them as screens. You can almost always find batches of unpainted Skinks and Saurus on Ebay for pretty cheap. Salamanders are another story, unfortunately. They are good to have, though. But if you're not wanting to spend around $100 for a full-sized unit, again Ebay or miniature trade sites like thetrolltrader are good places to look. A lot of the time single salamanders come up for sale without the handlers, but you can easily proxy normal Skinks for the handlers.

I'm not looking forward to playing against Lumineth, because as Putzfrau says, pretty much everything they have is really annoying. Probably not game-breakingly OP, but very annoying. Unfortunately, stuff like the archers have very little counter-play options, because their range is so long and they're pretty much guaranteed to snipe at least one hero per turn if they're running anything above minimum-sized units. Teclis is also a major threat and not a big model you can just ignore. When all their new units come out, they will have options that can do pretty much everything in the game very well. Unlike most other armies, nothing they have can be considered "weak," (although we haven't seen all the new warscrolls yet) and I have a feeling that they will be the best all-around army in the future. And people say we're unfun to play against, lol! However, they are beatable. They have a pretty low model count and while they will have a good unit for every role, they probably won't be able to bring enough different units to do everything well in one list.

If you're wanting to run Koatl's Claw lists, I would highly suggest getting a Skink Starseer, and at least one but preferably two Skink Starpriests. That way, you can still have buffs available even after a round of Lumineth shooting. As you have realized, getting a unit of Saurus Guard for Kroak is a very good idea, as is getting a Saurus Astrolith Bearer. The classic "Kroaknado" build with a Balewind Vortex, Saurus Astrolith Bearer, and 5 Saurus Guard will be something that even the Lumineth won't be able to just blow away easily. And bringing a buffed-up Kroak is going to basically force them to bring Teclis, because otherwise they won't have an answer to your magical supremacy.

Or, if they're not bringing Teclis, you could try to go with very few big heroes and focus purely on overwhelming them with hordes. Multiple blocks of 40 Saurus or 15 Knights aren't going to be easy to take down, and a lot of the Lumineth's buffs are once per battle, so they become a lot less useful in a multiple-turn melee grind.

But by far the biggest weakness of Koatl's Claw is that it often has little to no shooting, and unfortunately AoS as a whole is basically a shooting/magic meta right now. That doesn't mean melee is bad, it just means that armies with no shooting are going to have a tougher time playing against armies with decent to good shooting. The other big problem with Koatl's Claw is unlike most true melee-focused armies, we get no extra movement bonuses to speed us into combat faster. Orruks, Khorne or Nurgle having a 5" movement speed isn't much of a problem when you can get multiple free moves, extra move distance, run and charge bonuses, etc., per turn. Our Saurus having a 5" movement speed really hurts them, and even the 8" movement on our Knights isn't up to par with most other cavalry, and there's really no way to boost that. So when I know that I'm going to be facing an enemy with a lot of range, I either deploy as far back as possible to make them move forward first, or depending on the map deploy as far forward as possible so you can rush them.

 

[Nart]

Recently I'm dealing with similar problems as OP.
We have a Lumineth player among us and the Sentinels with their 5-6+ mortal wounds + reroll finish of the generals or key heroes turn one.
Last week I've lost Kroak turn one, his 4+ fnp compared to 19 shots from a unit of those is a joke. 36" range, can't hide him anywhere. It's simply annoying that I need to build a list where I have to spend extra points for Kroaks protection, or pray that he survives at least one round of those arrows. Seeing on GW official site how they are adding new models for Lumineth (2+2+ hit/wound -2 rend on most stuff makes me feel negative towards the next game) and I love Aos and my lizards!

What's your list? I think, even Koatl's claw can be effective against lumineth if built properly.

 

[Prince]

What's your list? I think, even Koatl's claw can be effective against lumineth if built properly.

I tend to change it almost every game. We usually play 1k (max 1.1k) matches up to 1,5k when we have a chance. I own:
Lord Kroak
Engine of the gods/ Stegadon + Skink chef/Stegadon - 1 model convertable
Old blood/Scarvet on carno - 1 model convertable
Scarvet on cold one
Astrolith bearer
Sunblood
Skink starpriest

15x Saurus knights
10x Saurus warriors
3x Terradons

A box of malign sorcerey + Balewind vortex

Now as I'm looking at it, I see that I don't have enough bodies.

 

[Nart]

I tend to change it almost every game. We usually play 1k (max 1.1k) matches up to 1,5k when we have a chance. I own:
Lord Kroak
Engine of the gods/ Stegadon + Skink chef/Stegadon - 1 model convertable
Old blood/Scarvet on carno - 1 model convertable
Scarvet on cold one
Astrolith bearer
Sunblood
Skink starpriest

15x Saurus knights
10x Saurus warriors
3x Terradons

A box of malign sorcerey + Balewind vortex

Now as I'm looking at it, I see that I don't have enough bodies.

And what does your opponent bring? I have a feeling that they play competitive list while you just bringing stuff that you have. Anyway, I strongly suggest to get a starseer. He is very good as a support to knights.

 

[Prince]

And what does your opponent bring? I have a feeling that they play competitive list while you just bringing stuff that you have. Anyway, I strongly suggest to get a starseer. He is very good as a support to knights.

He bought the big box Lumineth and later some extras:
Scinari
Eltharion
20x Sentinels
20x Wardens
5x Dawn riders
He also owns now 1big cow, Teclis and the stone mage.
I also have other opponent's in my group, Sylvaneth, Storm cast, Ogors but they are not so annoying and problematic as Lumineth and their shooting/magic.

Is the starseer model plastic or resin? I wanted to buy at least a Bastiladon but now I'm more eager to get a SC Skink box.

 

[Nart]

Well, you have to find away either remove archers from afar or get as close to them as possible. Otherwise, they will shred your units. Starseer is resin, but you may look for alternatives/conversions. You cannot do much with current units you have, unfortunately.

 

[LizardWizard]

biggest thing that helped me get better was understanding threat ranges (and always keeping them in mind) and being patient.

It's a 5 turn game, which automatically minimizes how much damage can be done to your army. This combined with always keeping in mind threat ranges should make engagements a lot more predictable and more in your favor.

Absolutely this. It will inform your deployment, threat priority, everything depends on being able to understand the flow of the game. Also, don't forget there is whole table of space out there. A lot of players will fall prey to just clumping up in the center and around objectives. AoS is a game about timing. Spacing is one of the best ways to exert control over the timing of events.