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AoS 2k pts Koatl's Claw

G
Jungle Swarm

Garradon

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Hello everybody,

I would like to play a 2k pts competitive list, without playing FoS or TL. Do you think it's possible ? I had a look on some tournament and most of the seraphons players are using FoS or TL. I still lack some experience on doing that but I want to learn and improve.
So I choose to have kroak because it's insanely powerfull for 320 pts. The Troglodon will help me to launch magic all over the field, especially Celestial Deliverance (22' with SAB and Balewind).

Then the Knights and the Scar carnosaur will help me to clean small units and to keep some objectives. The scar will buff the knights.

The chameleon skinks will hindrance the movement of the ennemies due to Chameleon ambush. The salamander hunting pack is supposed to deal some dmg on heavy armor guys.

What do you think ? Feel free to suggest anything :D.

In my opinion, I might lack of damage, or map control.

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Skink Oracle on Troglodon (220)
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
20 x Saurus Knights (400)
- Lances
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
10 x Chameleon Skinks (180)
3 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 
Those are too many Knights. A unit of 10 is usually enough. Always combo Knights with Starpriest ability and Hand of Glory and Scar-Vet (Carnosaur or Cold Old) command ability.

I don't see a Trog in KC. I'd swap Kroaq and Astrolith for a Slann, after all, all you need is sweet 4+. I'd try to squeeze somehow a Starseer for his buffs and spell.

Legit question, how will you grab and hold objetives from your enemy?
 
Hi, thank you for your answer. I have a few more questions due to your advice

1) I agree with you for the first point. I will try to remove 5 knights.

2) Okay for the Trog.

3) If I remove Kroak and the SAB for a slann, I will lose a lot of magic and 1 dice for a 4+ and the feed no pain 6+. The slann rolls only 2 against kroak 3. I'm okay to remove the SAB. Kroak is slightly more expensive (60 pts).

4) So I should add a Starseer and a Starpriest ? And that could balance for the command point (4+ and 5+). They would buff my knights or other units. Okay


Legit question, how will you grab and hold objetives from your enemy?

Good point, with this list, I can't :(. I should add a 40 saurus warrior pack at least, and maybe 10x2 or x3 knights, with some skinks to screen them or taking some objectives. I'm thinking about it. Do you have an opinion on that ?
 
++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Seraphon) [1,980pts] ++**


**+ Leader +**


**Lord Kroak [320pts]:** 1. Celestial Apotheosis


**Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur [210pts]:** [Koatl's Claw] Dominant Predator, Celestite Warspear, Eviscerating Blade, General


**Skink Starpriest [120pts]:** 2. Hand of Glory


**Skink Starseer [140pts]:** 1. Celestial Harmony


**+ Battleline +**


**Saurus Guard [100pts]:** 5 Saurus Guards, Saurus Guard Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer


**Saurus Knights [200pts]:** Celestite Warspear, Saurus Knight Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer


. **2x 5 Saurus Knights:** 2x Powerful Jaws, 2x Snapping Jaws


**Saurus Warriors [320pts]:** Celestite Spear, Saurus Warrior Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer


. **4x 10 Saurus Warriors:** 4x Powerful Jaws


**Skinks [60pts]:** 10 Skinks, Skink Alpha


. **Meteoric Javelin, Celestite Dagger and Star-buckler**


**+ Other +**


**Chameleon Skinks [180pts]**


. **2x 5 Chameleon Skinks:** 2x Celestite Dagger, 2x Dartpipe


**Salamander Hunting Pack [330pts]**


. **Hunting Pack**


. . **3x Skink Handler:** 3x Celestite Goad

. **Hunting Pack**


. . **3x Skink Handler:** 3x Celestite Goad

. **Hunting Pack**


. . **3x Skink Handler:** 3x Celestite Goad

 

**+ Allegiance +**



**Allegiance**


. **Allegiance: Seraphon**


. . **Coalesced:** Koatl's Claw

**+ Game Options +**


**Game Type:** 2000 Points - Battlehost


**++ Total: [1,980pts] ++**


What about that list? You can swap to a Slann+Skinks or stay with Kroaq.
 
While it isn't bad, there is some room for improvement if you want to stay in koatl's . first off, keep the 20 saurus knights but break them into a unit 10 and 2 units of 5, then run a firelance temple host for some cp and an extra artifact. next, might be worth considering dropping the chameleon skinks and trog for an oldblood on carno and geminids as those two are crucial to koatls claw. other than that sallies are decent and seem to be core to this list, and kroak is an auto include so it seems pretty solid
 
Well thank both of you for your comments. I tryed a list based on your comments this afternoon against Idoneths, I lost (I had 2*10 skinks and 5 chameleon instead the 10 chameleon that are on the following list). I'm still looking for improvement. Here is the list :

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Fiery Convocation

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
40 x Saurus Warriors (320)
- Spears

Units
10 x Chameleon Skinks (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134

Kroak was quite usefull, I just had bad luck on Comet's Call (D6 unit to target, rolled 2 turns in a row a 1 ....). He did a great job with Celestial deliverance (22' range).
I missplayed on the use of my 40 warriors, and one unit of knights. The carnosaur had a good impact

NecridHydra : It looks good ! Don't you think the SAB and the Balewind Vortex are usefull to maximize the use of Kroak ? Or in your opinion, it's better to have 3 salamander hunting pack? I'm not use to play against other army than idoneths, lumineths for the moment. I still lack some feedback/experience

Lizerd : Don't you think that the firelance host is quite expensive for some CP and an extra artefact ? I won't lack CP if I'm not unlucky. Which artefact would you choose ? Why do you think that the geminids are crucial ? I'm not rejecting your idea, just trying to understand well.
 
i don't like saurus warriors personally.
i think the base set starts with your kroak, knights and a carnosaur.
you certainly need a few 10's of skinks as screens but the main decision comes with the extra units you bring such as chameleons (or terradons if you can get really good with using them).

The list as you just posted here is good, just replace the warriors.
 
Tav said:
i don't like saurus warriors personally.
i think the base set starts with your kroak, knights and a carnosaur.
you certainly need a few 10's of skinks as screens but the main decision comes with the extra units you bring such as chameleons (or terradons if you can get really good with using them).

The list as you just posted here is good, just replace the warriors.
Click to expand...

idoneth are an S tier force wheres koatls claw i would say is an A at best. Super good but will fall down against other top tier stuff of a good player
 
Garradon said:
NecridHydra : It looks good ! Don't you think the SAB and the Balewind Vortex are usefull to maximize the use of Kroak ? Or in your opinion, it's better to have 3 salamander hunting pack? I'm not use to play against other army than idoneths, lumineths for the moment. I still lack some feedback/experience
Click to expand...

I never liked SAB in a Coalesced army, but that's my opinion, of course. You say it worked for you, so keep it up. In the end you'll play what works for you. Just remember that once you have summoned your Vortex, you can't move, so better hold an objetive or use Arcane Vassal, the extra range works throught it.

For me, Sallys>>>>Chameleons but it depends on what is your budget for the game.
 
I enjoy chameleons a lot. I never leave home without some (lots)
 
Tav said:
I enjoy chameleons a lot. I never leave home without some (lots)
Click to expand...

Chameleons are an awesome unit, that's true, but they're 30 points more expensive than Sallys for the same damage, or almost.

The only advantaje they have is Deep Strikes but Sallys can teleport (in Starborne), shoot and charge to terminate the remains.
 
NecidHydra : Don't you think the 10 chameleon can be a bit more usefull in coalesced due to the deep strikes (in this setup) ? We might lack mobility no ? And it can force the ennemy to split his army, or taking a small objectiv far away ? And they have a 3+ save if you place them well
I
Tav : So you would remove the 40 saurus (320pts) for 9 terradons riders + a terradon chief (340pts) (I had still 30 pts left) ? Or only 6 + chief + 5 chameleon ? Or another choice ?

I'm gonna try by dividing my knights into 10 - 5 - 5 instead of 10 - 10
 
Garradon said:
NecidHydra : Don't you think the 10 chameleon can be a bit more usefull in coalesced due to the deep strikes (in this setup) ? We might lack mobility no ? And it can force the ennemy to split his army, or taking a small objectiv far away ? And they have a 3+ save if you place them well
I
Tav : So you would remove the 40 saurus (320pts) for 9 terradons riders + a terradon chief (340pts) (I had still 30 pts left) ? Or only 6 + chief + 5 chameleon ? Or another choice ?

I'm gonna try by dividing my knights into 10 - 5 - 5 instead of 10 - 10
Click to expand...

Chameleon are very useful in Coalesced for the very same reason. You can remove the 40 Saurus for 6 Terradons + Chief and add 5 Chameleons to the unit.

Search for a recent post in Disussion talking about the usefullnes of 9+Chief vs 6+Chief.
 
NecridHydra said:
Chameleons are an awesome unit, that's true, but they're 30 points more expensive than Sallys for the same damage, or almost.

The only advantaje they have is Deep Strikes but Sallys can teleport (in Starborne), shoot and charge to terminate the remains.
Click to expand...
Chameleons do more damage unbuffed than the salamanders and do loads more under buffs. The main downside is the save which can be worked around by trying to stay in cover
 
Garradon said:
NecidHydra : Don't you think the 10 chameleon can be a bit more usefull in coalesced due to the deep strikes (in this setup) ? We might lack mobility no ? And it can force the ennemy to split his army, or taking a small objectiv far away ? And they have a 3+ save if you place them well
I
Tav : So you would remove the 40 saurus (320pts) for 9 terradons riders + a terradon chief (340pts) (I had still 30 pts left) ? Or only 6 + chief + 5 chameleon ? Or another choice ?

I'm gonna try by dividing my knights into 10 - 5 - 5 instead of 10 - 10
Click to expand...
I think only 9 and a chief since you have chameleons, or use the points for 5 more knights or 2 skinks screens
 
Tav said:
Chameleons do more damage unbuffed than the salamanders and do loads more under buffs. The main downside is the save which can be worked around by trying to stay in cover
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that doesn't take into account the melee damage. Sallies biggest strength is being able to shoot one unit and charge another (or the same if its particularly tanky). It lets them be a bigger bully than camos. They also have a smaller footprint which is really useful, and retain their damage longer.

I like chamos better in coalesced, and still like them in fangs but I think their inclusion is a lot more arguable in any starborne list.
 
NecridHydra : I found it. It was more about if the chief was necessary or not to buff the Terradons. It's usefull fora pack of 6 or 9. The main problem between 6 and 9 is the output delivery :(. I'm not sure that I will be able to launch the 9 bombs on the unit.

Tav : I don't have the remaining point to put 2 skink screens :'(. I have 100 points left if I take 9 terradons + chief. So I choose to stay with 15 chameleon (Maybe it's too much?)

Here is the list after all your advice. I just need to try it now :D

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Fiery Convocation
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Terradon Chief (70)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances

Units
15 x Chameleon Skinks (270)
6 x Terradon Riders (180)
- Sunleech Bolas

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122
 
Garradon said:
NecridHydra : I found it. It was more about if the chief was necessary or not to buff the Terradons. It's usefull fora pack of 6 or 9. The main problem between 6 and 9 is the output delivery :(. I'm not sure that I will be able to launch the 9 bombs on the unit.

Tav : I don't have the remaining point to put 2 skink screens :'(. I have 100 points left if I take 9 terradons + chief. So I choose to stay with 15 chameleon (Maybe it's too much?)

Here is the list after all your advice. I just need to try it now :D

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- General
- War Spear
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Skink Starseer (140)
- Spell: Fiery Convocation
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Terradon Chief (70)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances

Units
15 x Chameleon Skinks (270)
6 x Terradon Riders (180)
- Sunleech Bolas

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122
Click to expand...

Personally, when I'm playing coalesced I like to run my chamos in min units. 3 units of 5 gives you a lot more flexibility.
 
Garradon said:
Hummm why not. I won't have the T1 anyway, so let's try that :D. Thank you
Click to expand...

I'd also run celestial harmony on your starseer instead of fiery convocation. It's not as useful in your list, but it'll be helpful on the unit of 10 knights, or even the 6 terradons so they don't lose a single model and a bunch end up fleeing.
 
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