AoS Saurus Knights dilemma

[Rage0497]

Hi everyone, I have a problem.
I have 15 saurus knights and I don't know if I should give them lances or blades, (since I don't know if they'll be able to use the lance charge bonus more than once per game), and I'm also not sure if they should be 3 units of 5, 1unit of 10 and 1 of 5 (I'm not considering a unit of 15 cause they're way too big and some of them wouldn't even reach in that case).
Any thoughts?
Everything helps, and thank you in advance for your time

 

[Killer Angel]

Hi everyone, I have a problem.
I have 15 saurus knights and I don't know if I should give them lances or blades, (since I don't know if they'll be able to use the lance charge bonus more than once per game), and I'm also not sure if they should be 3 units of 5, 1unit of 10 and 1 of 5 (I'm not considering a unit of 15 cause they're way too big and some of them wouldn't even reach in that case).
Any thoughts?
Everything helps, and thank you in advance for your time

i would suggest to pick 5 additional knights, so you can play 5+5+10 in a firelance starhost, going for 10 (fully buffed) lances and 5+5 blades

 

[Rage0497]

i would suggest to pick 5 additional knights, so you can play 5+5+10 in a firelance starhost, going for 10 (fully buffed) lances and 5+5 blades

Sadly I can't get another 5 saurus knights or add the battalion to the list I already have right now, but I'll surely keep it in mind for when I can, thanks!

 

[Putzfrau]

Always lances. The +1 damage is infinitely better than the +1 hit on blades, especially with so much other access to +1 hit.

 

[Imrahil]

Always lances. The +1 damage is infinitely better than the +1 hit on blades, especially with so much other access to +1 hit.

What he said. And in doing so you might consider 3 units of 5 just for the possibility to charge more units, or to screen if needed.

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[Tav]

I have to disagree with the lances. Yes there are a few ways to get +1 to hit but you really dont want to get more than 1 before you start to waste it. A +1 to hit already has the cold one jaws at 2+ to hit.

if you are to get a charge off then you get 2 damage on the lances for that combat. But there are more opportunities where you will be fighting not Having charged. If your knights fight twice (1 round charging 1 round not) blades and lances are roughly the same.

Essentially i would argue that the Situation dependant 2 damage on the spears is not good enough to warrant losing a weapon with +1 to hit instead

 

[NecridHydra]

I have to disagree with the lances. Yes there are a few ways to get +1 to hit but you really dont want to get more than 1 before you start to waste it. A +1 to hit already has the cold one jaws at 2+ to hit.

if you are to get a charge off then you get 2 damage on the lances for that combat. But there are more opportunities where you will be fighting not Having charged. If your knights fight twice (1 round charging 1 round not) blades and lances are roughly the same.

Essentially i would argue that the Situation dependant 2 damage on the spears is not good enough to warrant losing a weapon with +1 to hit instead

I'd agree with you but I would consider the amount of wounds my enemy has, it's not the same charging to 20 Chainrasp than to 5 Brutes and if I know I can charge them before they do. If I can't, just bring the blades, unless you play with KC and you can use one CM to make them charge.

And in doing so you might consider 3 units of 5 just for the possibility to charge more units, or to screen if needed.

I don't want to create a new thread, but I'd like to hear your opinion, guys.

In my experience, under KC and a Scar Veteran and Starpriest, a unit of 10 Knights (with their casualties) with lances has annihilated several units. However a friend of mine and more experienced in AoS said that cavalry is almost useless.

Talking about battalions, he argued that Knights should go on units of 5 but I think otherwise, units of 10 and a couple of Starpriest, which makes a core of 1110-1210 (Cold One or Carnosaur). Since you only have 2 Starpriest, you will buff only 2 units, so I'd make the third unit of 5 instead of 10 and take a point with them.

What do you think about this?

 

[Killer Angel]

In my experience, under KC and a Scar Veteran and Starpriest, a unit of 10 Knights (with their casualties) with lances has annihilated several units. However a friend of mine and more experienced in AoS said that cavalry is almost useless.

Talking about battalions, he argued that Knights should go on units of 5 but I think otherwise, units of 10 and a couple of Starpriest, which makes a core of 1110-1210 (Cold One or Carnosaur). Since you only have 2 Starpriest, you will buff only 2 units, so I'd make the third unit of 5 instead of 10 and take a point with them.

What do you think about this?

Unit of 10, with lances and proper buffs is SCARY. A very strong damage dealer, we're talking about 70 attacks that deal mortal wounds on 6s.

But i normally use just one unit of 10 and 2 of 5.

 

[Tav]

my reasoning is that a unit of 5 knights +1 hit and mortals on 6's does about 5.55 damage with lances on charge, 3.33 not charging.
The blades do around 4.16. so the damage over 2 rounds of combat with 1 being a charge they are so close in damage that i would call it negligible.

If you think the knights will fight on the charge more than or equal to the amount they fight not charging then sure go lances.
Ive not found that this is the case overall

 

[NecridHydra]

But i normally use just one unit of 10 and 2 of 5.

Thanks. I think you'll use your two units of 5 to take any point or as a screen, right?

my reasoning is that a unit of 5 knights +1 hit and mortals on 6's does about 5.55 damage with lances on charge, 3.33 not charging.
The blades do around 4.16. so the damage over 2 rounds of combat with 1 being a charge they are so close in damage that i would call it negligible.

If you think the knights will fight on the charge more than or equal to the amount they fight not charging then sure go lances.
Ive not found that this is the case overall

I haven't tried Knights outside Koatl's Claw, a Scar Vet as a general to give them bonuses with CA and Starpriest as support, which is a huge investment (430 points). I've never tries blades because I'd use the Saurus general CA from KC to make them ""charge"" if I've been charged.

 

[Killer Angel]

Thanks. I think you'll use your two units of 5 to take any point or as a screen, right?
.

Exactly! Usually 1 unit goes with the 10 khights squad to screen them, the other one goes somewhere else where needed (obj or dealing with some minor target)

 

[Tav]

Thanks. I think you'll use your two units of 5 to take any point or as a screen, right?



I haven't tried Knights outside Koatl's Claw, a Scar Vet as a general to give them bonuses with CA and Starpriest as support, which is a huge investment (430 points). I've never tries blades because I'd use the Saurus general CA from KC to make them ""charge"" if I've been charged.

The command ability only applies charge for the effect of the +1 to hit, it doesnt give the spears their charge effect

 

[NecridHydra]

The command ability only applies charge for the effect of the +1 to hit, it doesnt give the spears their charge effect

Oh shit, you're right. I've been using this CA wrong.

Thanks you for pointing my error.

 

[Putzfrau]

my reasoning is that a unit of 5 knights +1 hit and mortals on 6's does about 5.55 damage with lances on charge, 3.33 not charging.
The blades do around 4.16. so the damage over 2 rounds of combat with 1 being a charge they are so close in damage that i would call it negligible.

If you think the knights will fight on the charge more than or equal to the amount they fight not charging then sure go lances.
Ive not found that this is the case overall

You don't want your knights caught in. You really want to just be clearing stuff on the charge, so making the charge better is always going to be the better option.

 

[Tav]

You don't want your knights caught in. You really want to just be clearing stuff on the charge, so making the charge better is always going to be the better option.

The difference in damage is only around 1.5 wounds and, maybe that makes the difference in taking out a target but a lot of the time they will still get wrapped up or charged themselves. I prefer to accept that the knights will not always be in the perfect situation so would rather have better reliability all around than a boost on the charge

 

[Putzfrau]

The difference in damage is only around 1.5 wounds and, maybe that makes the difference in taking out a target but a lot of the time they will still get wrapped up or charged themselves. I prefer to accept that the knights will not always be in the perfect situation so would rather have better reliability all around than a boost on the charge

You didn't add the exploding 6s in that calculation and its only per 5 guys. It might only be 1.5 more damage, but with exploding 6s a unit of 10 is doing 4 or 5 more damage than a unit with swords. Its less insignificant at that point.

I dont think it really makes or breaks it either way, but in my games I've found I want to front load that damage as much as possible because knights aren't particularly tough.

I can definitely see how if you are using them in a different way the difference is less noticeable.

 

[Lizerd]

Lances Vs Blades is somewhat swingy, I would say in Starborne lists blades are somewhat better, but not by a significant amount. Imho, as @Putzfrau outlined we have a lot of access to +1 to hit, especially in Koatl's Claw which is definitively the best place to run them. ALso to note that in a big block (preferably 10, but 15 can be pulled off), you're getting 20-30 main weapon attacks. If thats on the charge, each of those lances are damage 2. Even with the koatls claw charge buff, that amount of damage is brutal

 

[Brandfas Machine]

I personally find lances to be preferable (if not superior) overall. As @Tav pointed out, the damage difference is negligible over the course of two rounds is small (and I would not recommend leaving Knights in combat without a fresh charge for more than two rounds), so I look to what has better situational use between the two options.

The blades are more reliable in a vacuum, but lances can compete with support by getting things like +1 to hit from other sources. Lances synergize well with Koatl's Claw's focus on charging, and on the other side of the spectrum, Starborne lists can keep fresh charges coming with LoSaT. I think that the lances have far more advantages to get from outside support than the blades do.