Star Trek vs. Star Wars (and a collection of memes)

[Imrahil]

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Marvelous!

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[xoid]

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[Scalenex]

I wouldn't say TNG is the very best, personally I feel DS9 was better overall. TNG has the best captain, but sometimes it was marred by silly parts of the plot like Wesley saving the day or Dr. Crusher having an emotional crisis.

I think TNG and TOS are typically the most highly regarded.

I feel TNG is the best by a long shot! You're right that it does have a few "off" episodes, but it also has more truly memorable ones. I feel that DS9, while good, has less truly memorable or standout episodes.

DS9 is my favorite but only by a relatively small margin. Most of the same make up artists, costume designers, writers, and directors were involved in TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Most of my problems with TNG are from the crew going through a learning curve and most of their newbie mistakes disappeared by the time they got to DS9.

Sir Patrick Stewart is the best actor that ever graced a Star Trek set and his very presence elevates the acting of the others around him. In a way he set a precedent for how future Star Trek officers would act for many years much how Robert Downey Junior set standards for the Marvel Cinematic Universe through Endgame.

The reason I like DS9 is that in my opinion, DS9 had no dead weight characters (MAYBE Ezri Dax, but she was mediocre, not awful). Tasha Yar and whoever the snide doctor who mocked Data was were put on a bus because no one liked them. Wesley eventually got put on a bus after annoying the fanboy. Each episode of TNG the writers flipped a coin to see whether Troi would be competent or incompetent.

Worf got humiliated so much TV tropes named a trope after him. Both Worf and O'Brien were a lot better written in DS9. The cast of DS9 was thematically linked. In a way they were all lost and adrift and they found a surrogate family in each other. I also really liked the non-Federation perspectives provided Garak and Quark. Voyager continued this tradition with the introduction of Neelix. Not quite as good as Garak or Quark, but close enough.

A lot of it's personal taste. DS9 had more politics and fewer weird alien creatures than TNG because most of the series was set in a stationary place, but I like sci-fi politics. I liked how yesterday's enemy kept becoming tomorrow's friend and visa versa.

Other people prefer episodic space adventures in weird places and that's fine too.

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This is the way...to candy.

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For those uncultured swine, this is why it's funny.

 

[Scalenex]

Also, Gul Dukat is the best Star Trek villain ever. If you disagree with anything I said in the post above, that's fine, you are welcome to your own opinion. If you disagree with the first sentence of this post, your opinion is wrong.

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This is what my social distancing life looks like.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Also, Gul Dukat is the best Star Trek villain ever. If you disagree with anything I said in the post above, that's fine, you are welcome to your own opinion.

The Borg gave us:

• Locutus of Borg
• Star Trek: First Contact
• The Borg Queen
• Seven of Nine
• Resistance if futile!

Gul Dukat is a more complex villain, but the Borg are more menacing, more memorable and more popular.

If you disagree with the first sentence of this post, your opinion is wrong.

Slann vote:

In favour of Gul Dukat: @Scalenex (1)
In favour of the Borg: @NIGHTBRINGER (7)

Borg win, 7-1!



Joking aside, if you opened it up to the Trek community, it would be a very short lived contest. If you opened it up to the general public, it would be even worse.


That said, Gul Dukat is admittedly a good villain. My personal favourite will always be Q, although, one could debate if he is actually a villain.

 

[xoid]

For those uncultured swine, this is why it's funny.

I'll admit to being partial to this version from the incredible They Might Be Giants album Flood.

 

[Scalenex]

@NIGHTBRINGER

Gul Dukat is a more complex villain, but the Borg are more menacing, more memorable and more popular.

That's not a true or fair comparison. Essentially your premise is that the Borg are a better villainous group than the Cardassians. That's fair.

Is Dukat better than the entirety of the Borg. No.

Is Dukat better than any single Borg character. Yes.

That said, Gul Dukat is admittedly a good villain. My personal favourite will always be Q, although, one could debate if he is actually a villain.

Q defies easy classification, by design. Sometimes he is an antagonist, sometimes he's an ally, and sometimes he's a red herring or ringer.

Of course Gul Dukat is sometimes an ally to the cast of DS9 but his villainy usually shows through even when he fights on the side of the angels.

I don't really dislike Q, but I feel he is overrated and some Q episodes are better written than others. The actor is great, I won't deny.

Whether you like or dislike Q, he leans towards science fantasy more than science fiction which is usually Star Trek's bread and butter.

I suspect Q would win a win a casual fan vote, unless the Borg were a central entry. Q (and the Borg) were presented over three versions of Star Trek while Dukat is solely a DS9. (Though Dukat's actor played an unnamed Cardassian officer in TNG).

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

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[MEDIA=youtube]RpkQEq75y18[/MEDIA]

[MEDIA=youtube]iCMcSx1as3c[/MEDIA]

[QUOTE="Scalenex, post: 350358, member: 6284"]That's not a true or fair comparison. Essentially your premise is that the Borg are a better villainous group than the Cardassians. That's fair.[/QUOTE]

You've missed the key point of the Borg. The Borg are based off eusociality; best exemplified by eusocial insects such as bees, wasps or ants. You can't look at them separately, they are essentially one organism made up of many seemingly separate but ultimately unified parts. They are of one mind and of one purpose. They much more closely fit the definition of a singular villain than they do of a civilization like the Cardassians.

I would liken them to a painting, with all "individual" drones being all the different colours on the canvas. Ultimately they only have true meaning and value when combined to form the whole, a singular painting, a singular villain.

[QUOTE="Scalenex, post: 350358, member: 6284"]Is Dukat better than the entirety of the Borg. No.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. In fact, the Borg are better than the Cardassians as a whole. I don't want you to get the wrong impression, the Cardassians were interesting and so was Dukat. However, they were essentially humans with the the veneer of an extraterrestrial species. Essentially they act as people do.

The Borg are different. Foreign. Distinct. Unique.

[QUOTE="Scalenex, post: 350358, member: 6284"]Is Dukat better than any single Borg character. Yes.[/QUOTE]
Can't disagree here. Dukat is better than a singular drone. However, as mentioned above, such a comparison strips away everything that makes the Borg special and interesting.


[QUOTE="Scalenex, post: 350358, member: 6284"]Q defies easy classification, by design. Sometimes he is an antagonist, sometimes he's an ally, and sometimes he's a red herring or ringer.[/QUOTE]
True. I think in the end he definitely does more good than harm. His "games" ultimately provide Picard with a more clear perspective on himself and the universe as a whole. While he is definitely an antagonist, taken as a whole, he isn't an enemy.

[QUOTE="Scalenex, post: 350358, member: 6284"]Whether you like or dislike Q, he leans towards science fantasy more than science fiction which is usually Star Trek's bread and butter.[/QUOTE]
It's that interplay which makes him so much fun. Besides, it is an intriguing question. How would we react to a being that is so far more advanced than us that they are essentially incomprehensible to our limited minds? Think about taking our current day technology back 500 years, it would be pure fantasy/magic to the people of the day. That's a mere 500 years, nothing on a universal scale. Now imagine a being that is a billion years more advanced!


[QUOTE="Scalenex, post: 350358, member: 6284"]Q (and the Borg) were presented over three versions of Star Trek while Dukat is solely a DS9. (Though Dukat's actor played an unnamed Cardassian officer in TNG).[/QUOTE]

Not everyone likes him, but no one can deny that he is memorable!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[Scalenex]

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That's fiction so it's a bad romantic strategy. My plan is to hang out by the coast and hope I'm the first human man a mermaid on vacation meets, so all my knowledge of the surface world makes me seem like a wizard. That's a realistic strategy.

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An important detail in Empire Strikes Back is that Leia and Chewbacca got away from the Empire without Luke's help. Hypothetically if Luke was able to "complete his training," Obi Wan could have given him a bunch of snarky comments to get under Vader's skin. His burned, cybernetic covered skin.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[Lizards of Renown]

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Wow, this is next level pumpkin carving... incorporating a lazer pointer?

 

[Lizards of Renown]

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]