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Tutorial Seraphon List for GHB2020

LizardWizard said:
Ah yes, the great Sar-Covid-19 inundation of 2020. Don't you just love living in historic times?
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all times are historic. there isn't a decade that didn't matter, that didn't have "unprecedented" times and challenges.

to live is to be history
 
As with most discussions at the moment this went 0-Covid faster than you can say "don't drink bleach".

I'll shuffle this discussion elsewhere if it's not suited for here, but I am primarily facing very melee armies (nighthaunt and ogors) who always seem out of range of the skink block and who then charge me and deal so much damage on the charge and initial attack that even buffed, the skinks don't do much.

Should I be shuffling around the board with the skinks huddled around Kroak to protect him from charges but to invite people close enough for his Celestial Deliverance? (or ruination of cities or deliverance of itza, I lose track of it's name!). My issue seems to be I can never use him for his full potential, he's either too far out, or gets charged.
 
HelloBear said:
As with most discussions at the moment this went 0-Covid faster than you can say "don't drink bleach".

I'll shuffle this discussion elsewhere if it's not suited for here, but I am primarily facing very melee armies (nighthaunt and ogors) who always seem out of range of the skink block and who then charge me and deal so much damage on the charge and initial attack that even buffed, the skinks don't do much.

Should I be shuffling around the board with the skinks huddled around Kroak to protect him from charges but to invite people close enough for his Celestial Deliverance? (or ruination of cities or deliverance of itza, I lose track of it's name!). My issue seems to be I can never use him for his full potential, he's either too far out, or gets charged.
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well spell portal and screens can help with that. do you have your list? that might help us figure out where your problem is at
 
1k FoS Skink Bomb

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Fangs of Sotek

Leaders:
Skink Starpriest (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Star Rituals
- Artefact: Serpent God Dagger
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Skink Priest (70)

Battleline:
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters & Moonstone Clubs
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs:
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 71

Return to Index
 
Erta Wanderer said:
well spell portal and screens can help with that. do you have your list? that might help us figure out where your problem is at
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Pretty sure he is using the list above this post. It is from the Seraphon list before the GHB2020, but was unaffected by the points changes.
 
HelloBear said:
As with most discussions at the moment this went 0-Covid faster than you can say "don't drink bleach".

I'll shuffle this discussion elsewhere if it's not suited for here, but I am primarily facing very melee armies (nighthaunt and ogors) who always seem out of range of the skink block and who then charge me and deal so much damage on the charge and initial attack that even buffed, the skinks don't do much.

Should I be shuffling around the board with the skinks huddled around Kroak to protect him from charges but to invite people close enough for his Celestial Deliverance? (or ruination of cities or deliverance of itza, I lose track of it's name!). My issue seems to be I can never use him for his full potential, he's either too far out, or gets charged.
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There are two play tips that if you aren't currently using should help your melee match ups a lot with the list. First is using the 10x unit as a road block to screen your other units. Second is playing farther back in deployment. The beauty of FoS is that you gain an extra 3" of movement turn one. If you use the Skink Priest's prayer, roll a 6 to run or use the At the Double command ability, and include the 16" shooting range then you have roughly a 25" threat range for your back row of skinks if you are set up in roughly a 10 x 4 formation. If you plan to charge with your Skinks turn one after shooting then you should also use Lord Kroak's command ability to give the unit Fly. This will help a lot with sticking the max number of Skinks in range to fight. You also want to make sure you LoSaT the Starpriest inside the Blob of Skinks after they move if you aren't planning to charge. This will give them a hero to use the Fade Away command ability from FoS on your opponent's turn when you are charged. It is also great to have a vector for casting Kroak's spells using the Arcane Vassal rule.

If you are screening with the 10x Skink unit, and deploying farther back with your Skinks and Kroak then combat focused armies are either going to give you turn one alloying you to use your Skink Bomb, or they are going to take the first turn to get their various buffs ready and then risk a double turn vs a shooting and magic list.
 
Crazy to think about that our book has been out for almost half a year already. Covid has certainly put a stop to many games, but many of us have still played either on TTS or physical games in countries where there havent been hard lockdowns.

Im curious what kind of lists you guys are running with now and if they have changed a lot since the initial wave of ideas thrown around right after release. Also if any units etc. have surprised you positively on the table despite initially not looking too hot on paper.

I will admit I was hard-focused on the mathhammer side of things initially, but after having played a fair bit it seems like we have so much damage/MW output that filling your list with maximum damage units is insignificant, and that it is much more important to look at how the different units apply this damage (range etc).
 
I posted my fos list on this forum. I played only on TTS , i tryed 2 x6 terradonts with classic kroak combo and 20 chamelion. Now i wanna try 1x9 terradonts. Last game i played my 2x6 terradons were decimated agains Stormcast shooting amd their Mws potential was not a factor. I curious about your feeling about that!:)
 
Grotpunter said:
Crazy to think about that our book has been out for almost half a year already. Covid has certainly put a stop to many games, but many of us have still played either on TTS or physical games in countries where there havent been hard lockdowns.

Im curious what kind of lists you guys are running with now and if they have changed a lot since the initial wave of ideas thrown around right after release. Also if any units etc. have surprised you positively on the table despite initially not looking too hot on paper.

I will admit I was hard-focused on the mathhammer side of things initially, but after having played a fair bit it seems like we have so much damage/MW output that filling your list with maximum damage units is insignificant, and that it is much more important to look at how the different units apply this damage (range etc).
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I've been playing a ton of games on TTS and these two lists were the ones i found to be the "best" based on the people/meta i've been playing against.

Fangs of Sotek
Kroak general
Astrolith
Starpriest w/ hands of glory
Priest

40 skinks
40 skinks
5 guard

3 Sallies
3 Sallies

Balewind
Extra CP

Koatl's Claw
Kroak
Astrolith
Starpriest w/ harmony
Starseer w/ hands of glory
Oldblood Carno General w/ eviscerating Blade
Scarvet Carno w/ blade of realities

10 knights
10 knights
5 knights
10 skinks

Firelance

Balewind
Bound Geminids

I went from fangs to the koatl's list, and I enjoy the koatl's claw list a lot more. I found starborne shooting was just making me a lazy player. I think ultimately Fangs is probably the better list, but I think the book is just so strong top to bottom there's a strong list in any subfaction.

What I've found most surprising is just the sheer damage output/number of threats the book can put on the table. In the Koatl's claw list (for example) any of the knight units, kroak, or either of the carnos are all something that needs to be dealt with and thats just excessive for a lot of armies.

I've really, really not liked terradons when i've used them. I've found them to simply be far too unreliable from an output standpoint, and so much of the book is fast i haven't found i ever really needed something that moved 16''. 100% sure its just me, but yeah.

Only army i've really had any trouble with is Tzeentch, but even then its been super competitive every time. I honestly couldn't be happier with the book and have been having an absolute blast putting the army through its paces.

I do think people will be extremely surprised at what the meta is evolving to whenever restrictions start to lift, at least in the states.
 
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Putzfrau said:
I went from fangs to the koatl's list, and I enjoy the koatl's claw list a lot more. I found starborne shooting was just making me a lazy player. I think ultimately Fangs is probably the better list, but I think the book is just so strong top to bottom there's a strong list in any subfaction.

What I've found most surprising is just the sheer damage output/number of threats the book can put on the table. In the Koatl's claw list (for example) any of the knight units, kroak, or either of the carnos are all something that needs to be dealt with and thats just excessive for a lot of armies.

I've really, really not liked terradons when i've used them. I've found them to simply by far to unreliable from an output standpoint, and so much of the book is fast i haven't found i ever really needed something that moved 16''. 100% sure its just me, but yeah.

Only army i've really had any trouble with is Tzeentch, but even then its been super competitive every time. I honestly couldn't be happier with the book and have been having an absolute blast putting the army through its paces.

I do think people will be extremely surprised at what the meta is evolving to whenever restrictions start to lift, at least in the states.
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Absolutely. Our book is strong enough that we really only need to fine tune things if we are facing off against top tier armies and good players. I do think Kroak and Bound Geminids are the mandatory includes. Everything is playable. KO, Tzeentch, and Shooting CoS are all issues for Seraphon though. Our book is built on a house of cards of hero support. Armies who can access and remove those heroes are much harder to win against.
 
LizardWizard said:
Absolutely. Our book is strong enough that we really only need to fine tune things if we are facing off against top tier armies and good players. I do think Kroak and Bound Geminids are the mandatory includes. Everything is playable. KO, Tzeentch, and Shooting CoS are all issues for Seraphon though. Our book is built on a house of cards of hero support. Armies who can access and remove those heroes are much harder to win against.
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Funnily enough, those are the three armies I play against more than anything else -_-

I've found Scaly Skin + Astrolith absolutely ruins KO, and Cities I can manage as long as I didn't mess up deployment. I haven't quite cracked tzeentch yet, but I think I'm close. It's just all about the deployment and first turn, because the Koatl's claw list just buzzes through the entire army if you mitigate the alpha/dont get too left behind on objectives.

One day i'll get the win against them haha

The Koatl's list was originally no kroak/astrolith and just more units but Kroak's magic defense is almost required against some lists and the astrolith was giving me that small defensive push to eat the KO alpha.
 
Im playing similar lists atm, while preparing for a GT end of the month. I really like the carno’s. But havent had the time to look into TTS. Although there have been some TTS Tournaments, with seraphon and some very unexpected build doing really well. You can check them out here:

https://tabletop.to/hammertime-2
 
IggyStarhost said:
Im playing similar lists atm, while preparing for a GT end of the month. I really like the carno’s. But havent had the time to look into TTS. Although there have been some TTS Tournaments, with seraphon and some very unexpected build doing really well. You can check them out here:

https://tabletop.to/hammertime-2
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I actually talked to James a bit about his list and watched his final game, it was a super interesting matchup. Chariot spam BoC, honestly had never seen anything like it before.
 
Putzfrau said:
I've been playing a ton of games on TTS and these two lists were the ones i found to be the "best" based on the people/meta i've been playing against.

Fangs of Sotek
Kroak general
Astrolith
Starpriest w/ hands of glory
Priest

40 skinks
40 skinks
5 guard

3 Sallies
3 Sallies

Balewind
Extra CP

Koatl's Claw
Kroak
Astrolith
Starpriest w/ harmony
Starseer w/ hands of glory
Oldblood Carno General w/ eviscerating Blade
Scarvet Carno w/ blade of realities

10 knights
10 knights
5 knights
10 skinks

Firelance

Balewind
Bound Geminids

I went from fangs to the koatl's list, and I enjoy the koatl's claw list a lot more. I found starborne shooting was just making me a lazy player. I think ultimately Fangs is probably the better list, but I think the book is just so strong top to bottom there's a strong list in any subfaction.

What I've found most surprising is just the sheer damage output/number of threats the book can put on the table. In the Koatl's claw list (for example) any of the knight units, kroak, or either of the carnos are all something that needs to be dealt with and thats just excessive for a lot of armies.

I've really, really not liked terradons when i've used them. I've found them to simply be far too unreliable from an output standpoint, and so much of the book is fast i haven't found i ever really needed something that moved 16''. 100% sure its just me, but yeah.

Only army i've really had any trouble with is Tzeentch, but even then its been super competitive every time. I honestly couldn't be happier with the book and have been having an absolute blast putting the army through its paces.

I do think people will be extremely surprised at what the meta is evolving to whenever restrictions start to lift, at least in the states.
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Yeah it is really crazy just how much stuff we can put on the table. Whenever I make a Starborne list Im always surprised with how many points I have left remaining after picking out the core part of the list.

It feels kinda nuts that all of this is not even 1.000 pts. Gives you plently of room to fit in all kinds of other fun stuff.
Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Fangs of Sotek

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Skink Starpriest (120)
Skink Priest (70)

Battleline
40 x Skinks (240)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 71

I still havent really tried out Terradons - Everyone I talk to seem to have the same conclusion that they are clunky to use and dont feel impactful enough yet super fragile/risky. I think I would rather have more consistent damage output from another 40 Skinks. If MWs were hard to come by, I would consider Terradons a lot more, but even 40 Skinks with Starpriest buff etc. are spitting out quite a few MWs on their own. The speed is also kind of whatever when Skinks move 11 + D6 run in turn 1 in Starborne.
 
I rather enjoy Terradons. They are probably the most skill intensive of our top units to use though. In most of my games they have stuck around till the end. I generally am able to play them safe until I can drop their bombs around my turn two. I have been able to accomplish this through a mixture of strong positioning and using Skinks/Chameleons to present a more immediate threat.

After Terradons drop their bombs they tend to be ignored. Over the course of a game the Bola damage almost exceeds the MWs. Boals are real scary with a Seprent's Staff buff as well. Terradons have mostly worked as a counter punch unit for me. I try to have them in the vacinity of my Skink blobs and out of the way.

I also rather like the Terradon Chief in FoS. It makes for a solid hero to pass out the Parting Shot command ability. The high movement and fly often means it can keep up with any units of Skinks I LoSaT. It is also a decent option for the Serpent's God Dagger.
 
LizardWizard said:
I rather enjoy Terradons. They are probably the most skill intensive of our top units to use though. In most of my games they have stuck around till the end. I generally am able to play them safe until I can drop their bombs around my turn two. I have been able to accomplish this through a mixture of strong positioning and using Skinks/Chameleons to present a more immediate threat.

After Terradons drop their bombs they tend to be ignored. Over the course of a game the Bola damage almost exceeds the MWs. Boals are real scary with a Seprent's Staff buff as well. Terradons have mostly worked as a counter punch unit for me. I try to have them in the vacinity of my Skink blobs and out of the way.

I also rather like the Terradon Chief in FoS. It makes for a solid hero to pass out the Parting Shot command ability. The high movement and fly often means it can keep up with any units of Skinks I LoSaT. It is also a decent option for the Serpent's God Dagger.
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fun fact, I used the Dagger on my astrolith as a cheaky threat when my kroak get charged. It killed a VLoZD with its ability, (Eventhough he only had a few wounds left) it was fun :). And also a decent choice for prized possesion auxiliary. What auxiliaries do you guys use?
 
LizardWizard said:
I rather enjoy Terradons. They are probably the most skill intensive of our top units to use though. In most of my games they have stuck around till the end. I generally am able to play them safe until I can drop their bombs around my turn two. I have been able to accomplish this through a mixture of strong positioning and using Skinks/Chameleons to present a more immediate threat.

After Terradons drop their bombs they tend to be ignored. Over the course of a game the Bola damage almost exceeds the MWs. Boals are real scary with a Seprent's Staff buff as well. Terradons have mostly worked as a counter punch unit for me. I try to have them in the vacinity of my Skink blobs and out of the way.

I also rather like the Terradon Chief in FoS. It makes for a solid hero to pass out the Parting Shot command ability. The high movement and fly often means it can keep up with any units of Skiwanks I LoSaT. It is also a decent option for the Serpent's God Dagger.
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Im genuinely curious because I love the Terradon models but personally just cant justify them - What role do the Terradons play in your army that a buffed unit of 40 Skinks cant do? The points are the same, the damage seems almost the same (assuming 1 shooting round per turn, Parting Shot makes this significantly different) and the movement with run & shoot is pretty much the same. 40 Skinks just seem to offer a lot more consistent damage every turn, and also guards an objective a lot better in my eyes.

Im really not a fan of teleporting my Skinks too far. I went for the throat a couple of games but it didnt work out.. Massive misplay! It meant my 40 Skinks were stranded outside of the Skink Priest/Starpriest buff range, so when I lost the roll-off and my opponent noticed it, he gave me the turn and it meant my Skinks were now an entire turn + his turn with no buffs. 80 shots from non-buffed Skinks is almost not even worth rolling dice for, the output is that bad.
 
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