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Tutorial Seraphon List for GHB2020

Aktanolt said:
Question to you guys, i've already been winning big events with salamanders spam, chameleon heavy fangs, magic heavy stuff. It's super strong / cool but i got challenged by mates to makes a saurus list and win events too :p ( My goal is to do the same with thunder lizard but there is already basti spam winning out there so, i'll keep it for later :D )
So here i am , theorycrafting stuff with koatl's claw. Core is the classic Kroak's package ( Kroak / banner / guards / Geminids bound / Balewind ) Then
i wonder what's the best way to go , i think knights seems better way to go because of mobility over saurus . Also would love to use carnosaurs because they are ok/good.
Would love to have insight on Koatl's claw competitive and your experiences on saurus / saurus Knights and Carnosaurs in competitive environnment.
Will come back later with fine lists when i found some :)
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Which events? Are they on BCP? Would love to see your lists and matchups.

I've been having decent success with knights. I dont know if the full kroak package fits with all the other stuff you'll need.

Kroak
Astrolith
Starseer
starpriest
oldblood carno
scar vet carno

10 knights
10 knights
5 knights

firelance
balewind

You end up having like 140 points left over. Can run guard, 20 skinks, some chamos, more knights, or a few endless spells. I feel like the list needs more bodies so i've been running it with the skinks lately.
 
Well basically won the big French ELeague on tts, 10 straitght win to the crown. Was playing straborn triple sallies and kroak. Faced in this order :
> Skaven 24 jezzails 30 acolytes
> STD despoilers triple Demon prince , Belakor + cavalry
> 110 Plagues bearers + GUO
> Ogors ( Butcher / Gluttons / IronGuts )
> DoK 90 Slaughter , Morathi Cauldron
And in finals was :
> Loca Tzeentch 3 gaunts, 50 pinks, 60 blues One drop
> Ossiarch Nagash 30 Cavalos ( Cancon list if i can recall )
> Eternal Conflagration classic build
> Ogors double Stonehorn 12 glutton
En finals was against Eternal conflag with Archaon.

Also won with the list vs top french players in practice.

Last weekend, won a one dayer with 2*20 chameleons 40 skinks and Kroak package in fangs. All games won within turn one or 2 .
Faced Ogor Triple Stonehorn, Seraphon mirror ( 2*3 sallies 15 chameleons and Kroak package ) and STD Archaon in final.

Also funny @Putzfrau because your list is kinda what i'm leaning too , i just add 10 skinks and Geminids but seems quite nice to perform as saurus. We got turn one big charges, 4 threats and kroak. Only Downside is the lack of guards that can win games by protecting kroak enough. Will try it out asap !
 
Aktanolt said:
Well basically won the big French ELeague on tts, 10 straitght win to the crown. Was playing straborn triple sallies and kroak. Faced in this order :
> Skaven 24 jezzails 30 acolytes
> STD despoilers triple Demon prince , Belakor + cavalry
> 110 Plagues bearers + GUO
> Ogors ( Butcher / Gluttons / IronGuts )
> DoK 90 Slaughter , Morathi Cauldron
And in finals was :
> Loca Tzeentch 3 gaunts, 50 pinks, 60 blues One drop
> Ossiarch Nagash 30 Cavalos ( Cancon list if i can recall )
> Eternal Conflagration classic build
> Ogors double Stonehorn 12 glutton
En finals was against Eternal conflag with Archaon.

Also won with the list vs top french players in practice.

Last weekend, won a one dayer with 2*20 chameleons 40 skinks and Kroak package in fangs. All games won within turn one or 2 .
Faced Ogor Triple Stonehorn, Seraphon mirror ( 2*3 sallies 15 chameleons and Kroak package ) and STD Archaon in final.

Also funny @Putzfrau because your list is kinda what i'm leaning too , i just add 10 skinks and Geminids but seems quite nice to perform as saurus. We got turn one big charges, 4 threats and kroak. Only Downside is the lack of guards that can win games by protecting kroak enough. Will try it out asap !
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Very cool, congratulations! Most of the games were before the sally nerf, i assume? some interesting lists in there, surprised no one wanted to play KO. I think they have a great matchup against sally spam. Pre nerf loca is nasty tho, such an annoying army to fight.

Good luck on the knights man, i hope you enjoy it, its a lot different than sally spam lol.
 
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Aktanolt said:
Well basically won the big French ELeague on tts, 10 straitght win to the crown. Was playing straborn triple sallies and kroak. Faced in this order :
> Skaven 24 jezzails 30 acolytes
> STD despoilers triple Demon prince , Belakor + cavalry
> 110 Plagues bearers + GUO
> Ogors ( Butcher / Gluttons / IronGuts )
> DoK 90 Slaughter , Morathi Cauldron
And in finals was :
> Loca Tzeentch 3 gaunts, 50 pinks, 60 blues One drop
> Ossiarch Nagash 30 Cavalos ( Cancon list if i can recall )
> Eternal Conflagration classic build
> Ogors double Stonehorn 12 glutton
En finals was against Eternal conflag with Archaon.

Also won with the list vs top french players in practice.

Last weekend, won a one dayer with 2*20 chameleons 40 skinks and Kroak package in fangs. All games won within turn one or 2 .
Faced Ogor Triple Stonehorn, Seraphon mirror ( 2*3 sallies 15 chameleons and Kroak package ) and STD Archaon in final.

Also funny @Putzfrau because your list is kinda what i'm leaning too , i just add 10 skinks and Geminids but seems quite nice to perform as saurus. We got turn one big charges, 4 threats and kroak. Only Downside is the lack of guards that can win games by protecting kroak enough. Will try it out asap !
Click to expand...
Thats awesome man! Im really surprised how you have done that well with mass Salamanders. From my experience it was great at first, but people learned quickly how to screen properly and for me it lacked reach to hit the important targets. Many lists with some ranged output just decided to stay outside of 22" of Kroak and play the objective game.

Maybe Im not aggressive enough with Kroak's position?
 
LizardWizard said:
2000pt Koatl's Claw w/Sunclaw and Firelance Temple-hosts

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw

Leaders:
Saurus Sunblood (130)
- General
- Command Trait: Disciplined Fury
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- Warblade
- Artefact: Blade of Realities
Skink Starpriest (120)
Skink Oracle on Troglodon (220)
- Artefact: Cloak of Feathers

Battleline:
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
40 x Saurus Warriors (320)
- Spears
10 x Saurus Warriors (90)
- Clubs
10 x Saurus Warriors (90)
- Clubs

Battalions:
Firelance Temple-host (160)
Sunclaw Temple-host (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs:
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133

Lots of Saurus and a Troglodon!

Return to Index
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Hi @LizardWizard. I would like to try a double battalion just for the heck of it. I may have already asked this question somewhere, but do you think it would help or hurt this list to drop down the big Knight unit to 5 and swap the Sunblood for an Oldblood on Carnosaur? Or, would that move just be a wash?
 
One question i have to think about, how many skinks if any are enough to screen out my battle line blob and important heroes?
I know i also will have things like gemnids to help out with incoming fire but im curious about how many i need to stop an alpha strike.

@Just A Skink agreed, everything is better with a carnosaur
 
Just A Skink said:
Hi @LizardWizard. I would like to try a double battalion just for the heck of it. I may have already asked this question somewhere, but do you think it would help or hurt this list to drop down the big Knight unit to 5 and swap the Sunblood for an Oldblood on Carnosaur? Or, would that move just be a wash?
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I think you will get more done with 5 extra Knights under buff than you will with a Carnosaur on field. Sunblood also does more to help with the Serpent's Staff in Koatl's Claw than an Oldblood. I think your suggested changes would mostly result in a lateral shift than much power gain or loss though.

The goal of the 10x Knight unit is to be your first wave btw. They are meant to be a bit of throw away. Buff them up, send them up field, let them do their job, then expect them to act as a barrier/tarpit for a turn before they get removed. They buy time and pack a punch for 1 round.
 
LizardWizard said:
Sunblood also does more to help with the Serpent's Staff in Koatl's Claw than an Oldblood
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How does +1 to wound help with Serpents staff? If anything +hit from the Oldblood would synergize more with the serpent staff? What am I missing?
 
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erians said:
How does +1 to wound help with Serpents staff? If anything +hit from the Oldblood would synergize more with the serpent staff? What am I missing?
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serpent staff causes an additional mortal wound on a 6+ to wound. Adding +1 to that makes it a 5+, effectively doubling the mortal wounds a unit will deal
 
erians said:
How does +1 to wound help with Serpents staff? If anything +hit from the Oldblood would synergize more with the serpent staff? What am I missing?
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It was brain fart. Was thinking about the old CA that rerolled wounds. +1 pretty well equals out on either side of the equation though.

I would still rather my General be a Sunblood than and Oldblood on foot though. Specially for Koatl's Claw. Being able to gain LoS will help a lot vs shooting armies who want to pick the general. Also, since the subfaction already grants +1 to hit from CA already. However, an additional +1 can be huge vs debuffing armies like Nurgle and Gloomspite though.
 
LizardWizard said:
I think you will get more done with 5 extra Knights under buff than you will with a Carnosaur on field. Sunblood also does more to help with the Serpent's Staff in Koatl's Claw than an Oldblood. I think your suggested changes would mostly result in a lateral shift than much power gain or loss though.

The goal of the 10x Knight unit is to be your first wave btw. They are meant to be a bit of throw away. Buff them up, send them up field, let them do their job, then expect them to act as a barrier/tarpit for a turn before they get removed. They buy time and pack a punch for 1 round.
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I hear that, and it's kind of what I expected. Foolishly, I had forgotten about the benefit of being able to use LoS with the Sunblood (or even Oldblood). I wondered whether the 10-knight unit was the "punch" or the "cleanup," and I can see that they might do more work than a Carno. Thanks, I appreciate the advice and all of the work on these lists in the first place.
 
Just A Skink said:
I hear that, and it's kind of what I expected. Foolishly, I had forgotten about the benefit of being able to use LoS with the Sunblood (or even Oldblood). I wondered whether the 10-knight unit was the "punch" or the "cleanup," and I can see that they might do more work than a Carno. Thanks, I appreciate the advice and all of the work on these lists in the first place.
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I generally use my knights as a punch and my carnosaurs as cleanup. Using the knights early helps you fight for control of objectives and then carnosaurs are brilliant at cleaning up whatever might be left over and you're not so worried about bodies because things are already dead :).
 
Putzfrau said:
I generally use my knights as a punch and my carnosaurs as cleanup. Using the knights early helps you fight for control of objectives and then carnosaurs are brilliant at cleaning up whatever might be left over and you're not so worried about bodies because things are already dead :).
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This.

I frequently view the battle in waves when I am playing a combat ranged army. Knights are normally first wave or a flank guard. Saurus Warriors are second wave. And Carnos and behemoths are 3rd wave. This is to make sure they enter the sector of the battlefield they are most needed. Turn one is all about gaining position/ Which is why Knights are great wave one units. Turn two is about leveraging that position to solidify a favorable table state and or beat things up. Turns 3-5 are generally clean up and maintenance.

If you run the double battalion you should do fairly well on board position. Between the small units of Warriors and knights you have a lot of board presence to throw around. Screen, flank guards, rear objectives holders, invasion bodies, you got lots of tools. Just no shooting, speed, or magic :D
 
Honestly knights in koatls claw in any capacity are pretty scary, they pack a punch well above their weight if you spend a cp on them. That 8 inch move with a rerollable charge can get them stuck in some nasty positions that will be hard for an opponent to dig out.
 
This might be a dumb question, but why has your 1000pts FoS Skink Bomb list with Kroak not made the GHB 2020 cut? Unless I am missing something, no points costs have changed?
 
HelloBear said:
This might be a dumb question, but why has your 1000pts FoS Skink Bomb list with Kroak not made the GHB 2020 cut? Unless I am missing something, no points costs have changed?
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I have just haven't ported all things over. Life has been shocking busy as of late. I still like that list though :D
 
LizardWizard said:
I have just haven't ported all things over. Life has been shocking busy as of late. I still like that list though :D
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Ahh sorry, didn't mean to be pushy! I was happy to find it as it's the only thing I can really run at the moment which what I own (proxying Adohi-Tehga as Kroak). I've had mixed success with it, but that's a reflection on my ineptitude and my opponents armies, not the list!
 
HelloBear said:
Ahh sorry, didn't mean to be pushy! I was happy to find it as it's the only thing I can really run at the moment which what I own (proxying Adohi-Tehga as Kroak). I've had mixed success with it, but that's a reflection on my ineptitude and my opponents armies, not the list!
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Glad you are enjoying the list. You aren't pushy, normally I am more on top of my threads. The past year has been hectic though.
 
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