TOW THE OLD WORLD - Poll: Will TOW be a faithful successor to WFB 8th edition?

[BrotherSutek]

It concerns me as FW hasn't been given the resources it needs to keep HH moving forward enough to build up interest in my area. While we are getting drips and drabs it feels like it's dying. I quit 40k and went full 30k and have had a blast, I really don't want the game to die out. The new fantasy needs to, IMO, grab the old timers attention and they do seem to be going High Fantasy with Kislev which not all of us prefer.

That’s a good way of thinking about it, I was already rather negative about it given that they had definitely decided to make all new minis through Forge World (which I just think is a rotten idea as it’ll put off new and veteran players alike before the ruleset even arrives), so treating the rest of it as a failure won’t be much of a stretch

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

The new fantasy needs to, IMO, grab the old timers attention and they do seem to be going High Fantasy with Kislev which not all of us prefer.

To be honest I don’t even think the material these new models will be made of is going to catch the attention of many old-timers due to the crazy pricing of Forge World miniatures - it’ll only be those who want a specific model so much that they’d pay anything for it that will be attracted to it, and I’m pretty sure people with that philosophy don’t make up all of the existing Fantasy playerbase (indeed I’m not sure if such people even make up 50%).

As I’ve said before, I’ve always seen the return of Warhammer Fantasy as catering towards two specific audiences:

1. Those people who’ve loved playing Warhammer: Total War and wanted to play the wargame it was based on, but arrived too late, saw that it had been replaced by AoS and abandoned the search
2. Those who’ve been playing Fantasy since before its execution by GW

Having all models for new units be made by Forge World is without a doubt going to put off target audience 1, because as soon as they’d see news of Fantasy being resurrected they’d want to get started quickly and reasonably cheaply, and Forge World doesn’t know the meaning of those words. The only way this would be possible is if GW made most of the minis in plastic with a boxed starter set. Even with making new models in Forge World it could still be possible to achieve this if GW released all the old plastic sets from Fantasy up to 8th Edition that were executed in the AoS era, as they have done with Middle Earth, but it’s not yet certain they will do this.

Additionally it’s going to put off a lot of Target Audience 2 because, again, much of the existing playerbase are going to be put off by the pricing - it’ll only be those who are really desperate for some Kislevite polar bears who’ll even think of paying those prices, and they alone won’t be able to support this new game.

GW need to sort themselves out, because at the moment TOW is fast becoming a wasted opportunity that could have given everyone what they wanted, but won’t because GW didn’t think it through enough about what everyone wanted.

 

[airjamy]

@NIGHTBRINGER , i must say, I do really like how this poll turned out, with so many people being 50/50 on it, it really emphasizes how all of us really don't know how it will pan out. I must say I got a little more positive with the new edition of 40K releasing. Iy seems to be a great release with changes the ruleset needed, making me think that their team could also maybe do justice to fantasy again.

 

[Karnus]

I voted 8, I am truly optimistic. I firmly believe that GW know that they did wrong when they introduced the end times and did away with 9th edition in favour of AOS.

While they may have made record profits around the time, they know they lost favour with their dedicated fan base and I would like to believe they want that favour back.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

@NIGHTBRINGER , i must say, I do really like how this poll turned out, with so many people being 50/50 on it, it really emphasizes how all of us really don't know how it will pan out. I must say I got a little more positive with the new edition of 40K releasing. Iy seems to be a great release with changes the ruleset needed, making me think that their team could also maybe do justice to fantasy again.

Now let's just hope that Forge World (who seems like they might be the ones responsible for the game) can follow suit.

 

[BrotherSutek]

I am not optimistic but wish I was. If for nothing else between this and Total War I've gotten some interest from my friends and have gotten in a few games of 7th, so that's good.

 

[airjamy]

Now let's just hope that Forge World (who seems like they might be the ones responsible for the game) can follow suit.

Yeah. Downside is that the models are going to be broken expensive ofc, let's hope we can use our old models..

 

[Killer Angel]

let's hope we can use our old models..

To be fair, if they launch a thing as "the old world", with all the related rumors about square bases, AND then they don't let you use the old models of WHFB... the game would be dead before starting.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

To be fair, if they launch a thing as "the old world", with all the related rumors about square bases, AND then they don't let you use the old models of WHFB... the game would be dead before starting.

You’re totally right of course.

I believe it will be whether or not those in charge of the project are gamers themselves or are merely businessmen looking to get the most revenue from the game.

(Yes, I know that a smart businessman would include usage of old models. The ideal person to design and execute would be a gamer who is also a good businessman as they would see the potential revenue from an existing clientele and also ensure it would be sustainable so that the game wouldn’t fizzle out and die due to lack of funds.)

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Anyone have any update on TOW?

 

[Tk'ya'pyk]

Anyone have any update on TOW?

Yeah, I'm gonna say 'no.'

 

[Killer Angel]

Yep, ATM there's literally nothing new on the horizon. I think GW will release some hints when there won't be great releases for 40k or AoS

 

[BrotherSutek]

It's not being done well IMO as the initial hype got people excited but since then they have done little to nothing and the hype has died down. I've had several games of 7th because of this but no one in my area has been talking about "what could be". Yes I know they said several years before this will happen but with no talk from GW at all it's making interest die down again.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

It's not being done well IMO as the initial hype got people excited but since then they have done little to nothing and the hype has died down. I've had several games of 7th because of this but no one in my area has been talking about "what could be". Yes I know they said several years before this will happen but with no talk from GW at all it's making interest die down again.

Games Workshop are very... vexing.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

It's not being done well IMO as the initial hype got people excited but since then they have done little to nothing and the hype has died down. I've had several games of 7th because of this but no one in my area has been talking about "what could be". Yes I know they said several years before this will happen but with no talk from GW at all it's making interest die down again.

I agree - GW could certainly have done better.

For me the hype died down as soon as GW elected to make all new miniatures for ToW through Forge World - even if we do get the older plastic miniatures back, it still means that any cool new factions and resculpts for existing armies’ units they’ve made will be crazily expensive and will have very limited customisability.

 

[BrotherSutek]

I agree - GW could certainly have done better.

For me the hype died down as soon as GW elected to make all new miniatures for ToW through Forge World - even if we do get the older plastic miniatures back, it still means that any cool new factions and resculpts for existing armies’ units they’ve made will be crazily expensive and will have very limited customisability.

There is that. I never expected the old minis back and if we did get some it would be later style models so not really what I personally was hoping for. That being said there might actually be Tomb King models and Lord forbid a Titan for them! It would cost over 200 USD or 500 Australian but it might happen.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

There is that. I never expected the old minis back and if we did get some it would be later style models so not really what I personally was hoping for. That being said there might actually be Tomb King models and Lord forbid a Titan for them! It would cost over 200 USD or 500 Australian but it might happen.

In my ideal scenario I would have loved GW to bring back all the 8th Edition Tomb King models in their original material and remake the Warriors/Archers, Chariots and Horsemen in plastic, but of course we won't be seeing that if GW continue their Forge World idea. I'm certainly not paying crazy money for Forge World ones even if they're even better sculpts - if GW do go down this route I'm going to turn to Mantic's Empire of Dust range for my planned Tomb King force, as I prefer affordability by a long way.

 

[BrotherSutek]

I have...a lot of Tomb Kings so not any needed other than the Titan, what I would buy and would like is better Archers. The ones we have aren't the best and if they did what that did for VC and made them better scale and less flimsy so that my skeletons didn't keep breaking their backs... It won't happen and GW will, as you alluded to , go for the cash cow route. Dead on Arrival is the best I see if they don't find a lower price buy in. As for 8th...eh I like some of it but too much OP magic, hordes, blah, blah, blah and I played with a low key group for the most part.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

I have...a lot of Tomb Kings so not any needed other than the Titan, what I would buy and would like is better Archers. The ones we have aren't the best and if they did what that did for VC and made them better scale and less flimsy so that my skeletons didn't keep breaking their backs... It won't happen and GW will, as you alluded to , go for the cash cow route. Dead on Arrival is the best I see if they don't find a lower price buy in. As for 8th...eh I like some of it but too much OP magic, hordes, blah, blah, blah and I played with a low key group for the most part.

If GW just took off Unstable from TK’s armies, they would at least have a fighting chance... I’m hoping for a redo of their rules. Even if they do new models, but upgrade the rules (as long as I can use my existing army) would be good.

Probably won’t happen though...

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

If GW just took off Unstable from TK’s armies, they would at least have a fighting chance... I’m hoping for a redo of their rules. Even if they do new models, but upgrade the rules (as long as I can use my existing army) would be good.

Unstable was included for both Undead factions to avoid them being too broken - if they were simply Unbreakable without being Unstable winning combat would do nothing for the side fighting them.

Rather than getting rid of Unstable I would alter the Lore of Nehekhara, specifically:

• Change the clause of the Lore Attribute that currently affects Animated Constructs so that it specifically affects units with the Large Target special rule (so that Ushabti receive D3 +1 wounds per spell instead - as long as you roll a 3+ you can bring a whole Ushabti back per buff spell), as this was introduced specifically to stop Sphinxes being too difficult to kill and Ushabti are currently hit hard by this clause. The Large Target version was implemented in the Vampire Counts Book with ‘Invocation of Nehek’, which is why you see lists with Crypt Horrors and Vargheists because they receive the full benefit of their resurrection spell (though that’s actually the only thing I can see magicwise that’s clearly done better in the Vampire Counts Book, because otherwise they have the same problems with resurrection as we have with marching - it relies upon them casting their signature spell, while we can resurrect models with every buff spell we cast).
• Replace Sakhmet’s Incantation of the Skullstorm with either a direct damage spell, magic missile or a superior augment spell that does a lot for the unit like a weaker version of ‘Return of the Golden Age’ from Storm of Magic or something, to make it actually one we’d consider taking.

• A personal preference would be that the Lore Attribute should give Animated Constructs 1 wound back per spell rather than per Magic Phase, because the latter is very stingy.