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AoS NEW *rumor*

My point is that it doesn't need to be "worse" or overcost. It's fine if it provides an advantage compared to the regular heroes you have. There's only 2 major caveats (aside from having the point costs be balanced of course)

1) Don't provide a unit type that they normally don't have (e.g. don't give Khorne wizards and don't give Fyreslayers mobile or ranged stuff)
2) Be very carefull with the types of abilities you allow them to have so you don't accidently end up giving them broken synergy with the rest of the army. E.g. don't give the necromancer hero a super powerfull, but difficult spell, and then be surprised when he's used as a vehicle purely to give that spell to Nagash.

Sticking a starpriest on a ripperdactyl, although a significant advantage thanks to flying, should be more than fine. Hell, mechanicly you can already do that with the cloak of feathers. All that's needed is just to make the starpriest say a 130-150 points instead of a 120. Even the added combat prowess shouldn't raise any issues at that pricepoint. Similarly, a starpriest with an extra wound or two, or a 4+ save instead of the puny 5+ shouldn't be gamebreaking provided it comes with a slight bump in pointcost.
In contrast, sticking a skink on a flying monster who can easily beat a terrorgheist into submission probably would be problematic as that means giving us a monster that far outclasses everything else we have. And chances are that's going to be too much when combined with all our potential buffs, even if it is appropriatly costed at 400 points.



Allowing freedom definitly makes things more complicated. But they seem to manage with the loadouts in 40K. So it's not impossible.


Unless you have an absolutly godlike memory I'd find that questionable. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you can remember "X will annihilate MSU units of skinks" or "Y should be tarpitted by ~20 bodies, at least for a turn or two". But beyond that I find it unlikely you know the exact output of every unit in the game, let alone when also having to take into account potential synergies of what's on the table & damage tables. It always remains ballpark figures, and for that rules of thumb like "big healthy monster will do loads of damage, wounded monster will do somewhat less damage" and "hordes of 40 models will stab me a lot" should already give you enough to work with.

Having said that, these heroes do need to fall within certain bandwiths. A custom hero on a behemoth should do say an average of 20-30 wounds in combat against a 5+ save, with a melee focused hero being on the high end and a wizard focused hero on the low end. Not have a wildly insane bandwith like 0-30 depending on the exact loadout (fyi, numbers are completly arbitrary). If that bandwidth gets too wide you do indeed get the problem you've mentioned.


fyi, the most expensive behemoth I can think of is one of those Ghoul kings on terrorgheist at 440 points. At least if you ignore forgeworld stuff. So you can still get something top tier.
Yes you can make a Priest or Starpriest fly but that takes up an artefact slot. That is worth WAY more than 20, 50 points or whatever. It is basically half the reason why people take a batallion in the first place. Being able to just "buy" effectively artefacts like that is beyond broken.

I obviously dont know the exact value from every unit, but I have a pretty reasonable idea of how many Salamander shots I need to allocate on average to take out a Terrorgheist or Motek Guard unit of X, or how much damage I can expect in return from a Stonehorn/Maw Krusha charge etc. Same with threat ranges of the different armies.

Having these weird and sudden abominations of heroes running around on the table is gonna throw things off. I dont like it unless you get taxed by effectively paying for an overcosted model compared to what it brings. I dont think that kind of customization is needed in AoS or healthy for the game as it is. 40K isnt AoS. WHFB isnt AoS. You cant draw parallels. Removing the ability to measure at will in AoS wouldnt be cool either just because that was how WHFB was played. It is a different game.

Anyways, I dont think any of us entirely know how this hero-forging will work, what combinations are available etc. At the end of the day, if you think it is a cool mechanic, go for it and play with your mates that way.
 
Removing the ability to measure at will in AoS wouldnt be cool either just because that was how WHFB was played
Sorry what would you be removing in this case? Are you saying in WHFB you couldn't measure stuff whenever you wanted to? I'm confused.

Anyways, I dont think any of us entirely know how this hero-forging will work, what combinations are available etc. At the end of the day, if you think it is a cool mechanic, go for it and play with your mates that way.
True. I am however optimistic & hope that they'l manage to make it work well enough to fit into matched play & get the support it needs from GW. Even if tournaments refuse to actually use it.I just hope that if they refuse to join in GW won't let that deter them from giving it meaningfull support. Throwing it on the pile of narrative play with no support or balance-effort is great and all, but without that it'l just be an unbalanced mess completly reliant on houserules. At which point we're back to were we started before getting an official hero-builder-template.
 
Sorry what would you be removing in this case? Are you saying in WHFB you couldn't measure stuff whenever you wanted to? I'm confused.

Yes, for a long time in WHFB you couldnt premeasure anything. You also had to guess ranges for certain artillery and other shooting attacks.
 
Sorry what would you be removing in this case? Are you saying in WHFB you couldn't measure stuff whenever you wanted to? I'm confused.
I played WHFB like 15 years ago. Back then you werent allowed to measure distance like you can now. Like if you were to shoot with a cannon you had to guess how far it would shoot. Now you can measure at any given time and ensure you constantly are within range of your buffs and outside of the enemy's range.
 
well, that's kinda silly, even if it adds a certain degree of "realism". Glad that's gone.
I actually enjoyed the old days without pre-measurements. It made you pay attention a lot more to your movements as well as you opponents' movements, and keeping an eye on those ranges as they move. It was challenging, but in a fun, tactical way.

With that said, I am happy that AOS is a different game. Teenager me with loads of free time to practice "guessing" ranges of all my stuff loved it. Adult me, with less free time really likes the quicker, smoother, simpler gameplay of AOS.

As for the buildable heroes, I am excited for this option. Me and my friends used to run campaigns back in 5th and 6th edition, where we had custom house rules for creating a hero character to be the character you followed through the campaign. As you won or lost, your hero would gain experience and grow with the campaign. By the end, you had these characters with backstories that became tied to the story of the campaign and the stories of the other players' characters. We had rivalries and allegiances between interesting combinations of characters. By the end, we became more personally attached to the characters we made, versus any of the special, named characters from the books.

I can certainly understand balance issues in competitive play with build your own characters. There needs to be restrictions like many have said already on what type of characters you can play. However, I think what it adds to the narrative aspect of play is well worth dipping my toes into these rules. I am still very new to this game, however I really like the bonkers, everything is possible, narrative focus of AoS as opposed to the more tactical focus of WFB, and I think the buildable characters have the opportunity to add a lot of intrigue into the narrative feel of the game.
 
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Honestly, that seems like a nightmare for matched play.
 
Individually all those effects seem fine, and even reasonably costed. I have however 1 major concern. Do those abilities stack, or are some mutually exclusive, similarly are there more limitations for unit types and the like (e.g. a skink can never be ethereal or something)? The only limitations I can see on that list are for specific unittypes, e.g. only a wizard can get +1 to casting. But are there others? Cuz without further limitation to keep certain combo's in check you're going to end up seeing some absurd comboes.

For example is there anything stopping me from putting ethereal, a ward save, regenerative and a 3+ save on the same character for eh, about a 100 points? I mean, it's a decent investment, but it's nowhere near high enough to outright make it unviable.

And even ignoring potential synergies between these upgrades, it raises some issues. A 6+ ward save for 30 points is horribly overcosted on say a skink priest, but a steal on a carnosaur. Why aren't they dynamicly prized?

I do hope that there's a hell of a lot of context missing here cuz if this is the gist of it then it's basicly hopeless for matched play (and honestly, not much better for narrative play as it seems fairly barebones a system).
 
M8w8tEdK1M4tCn51.jpg


Death Guard for sure this time. Ribbed tubes and pipes with ripped open covering is 100% their design language.
 
Individually all those effects seem fine, and even reasonably costed. I have however 1 major concern. Do those abilities stack, or are some mutually exclusive, similarly are there more limitations for unit types and the like (e.g. a skink can never be ethereal or something)? The only limitations I can see on that list are for specific unittypes, e.g. only a wizard can get +1 to casting. But are there others? Cuz without further limitation to keep certain combo's in check you're going to end up seeing some absurd comboes.

For example is there anything stopping me from putting ethereal, a ward save, regenerative and a 3+ save on the same character for eh, about a 100 points? I mean, it's a decent investment, but it's nowhere near high enough to outright make it unviable.

And even ignoring potential synergies between these upgrades, it raises some issues. A 6+ ward save for 30 points is horribly overcosted on say a skink priest, but a steal on a carnosaur. Why aren't they dynamicly prized?

I do hope that there's a hell of a lot of context missing here cuz if this is the gist of it then it's basicly hopeless for matched play (and honestly, not much better for narrative play as it seems fairly barebones a system).

I'm think you have to build up off the generic heroes they give you. You can't just add these to any character.
 
I'm think you have to build up off the generic heroes they give you. You can't just add these to any character.
I'm using the skink priest as a reference for "generic skink" and carnosaur for "generic saurus on big mount" as I am assuming those are representable-ish.
 
I'm using the skink priest as a reference for "generic skink" and carnosaur for "generic saurus on big mount" as I am assuming those are representable-ish.

Yeah, that's fair. i guess we will have to see what the base stats look like.
 
M8w8tEdK1M4tCn51.jpg


Death Guard for sure this time. Ribbed tubes and pipes with ripped open covering is 100% their design language.

I'm somehow seeing ropes and linnen, like a sail or something, but I guess you're Right though

Grrr, Imrahil
 
Im awaiting for us to get the full picture in regards to the custom hero system, but initially being able to effectively buy Ethereal amulet that cheap sounds crazy. Will obviously depend on what sort of save you can get on the heroes, but considering it was just removed from matched play.. Damn!
 
I'm somehow seeing ropes and linnen, like a sail or something, but I guess you're Right though

Grrr, Imrahil
the ropes seem more like the tubing in 40K, but yeah the covering looks like a sail or wings. Maybe chaos got their hands on a gyrocopter from the new admech releases and corrupted it?
 
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