Tutorial Seraphon List for Battletome 2.o

[MackiMac]

I like tree-revenants a lot.

Do you think it could be worth to take stormcast protectors as allies to make sure chameleons always has cover? So they can move around more freely

Edit: It was only against missile attacks, so maybe not as useful

 

[Grotpunter]

It's all good, the only downside is that it basically ensures 600 points of your army is always going to be Kroak/Balewind/Astrolith and a 5er of Saurus Guard. Booooooring.

I get your point, but honestly, arent most armies kinda locked into having a certain “core” of units anyways? At least if you want an optimized list. Im sure you can play Kroak and get away with fewer support pieces, depending on how big a role you want him to be, and how important magic is for your army overall. Like in Coalesced, you dont need to get him to +4 if all you want is CP generation, magic protection and maybe toss a couple of Endless spells, in which case +2 (sacred and warscroll) is plently really.

 

[Nart]

Kroak is still very good even without any support. It is a bit risky to take him without guard, but not many armies are capable of dealing with him quckly, especially in coalesced.

 

[Putzfrau]

I get your point, but honestly, arent most armies kinda locked into having a certain “core” of units anyways? At least if you want an optimized list. Im sure you can play Kroak and get away with fewer support pieces, depending on how big a role you want him to be, and how important magic is for your army overall. Like in Coalesced, you dont need to get him to +4 if all you want is CP generation, magic protection and maybe toss a couple of Endless spells, in which case +2 (sacred and warscroll) is plently really.

You're totally right, and i guess there are worse "core" units to build around

 

[Krissey]

Is it possible to make a functioning list of Koatl's Claw with Saurus and squeeze in Kroxigor? It feels tight for points? Astrolith Bearer, Skink support heroes, Saurus Heroes on various mounts probably, probably Kroak I guess? Then I guess just fill in as much Warriors as possible with the 5 Guard for slann and then hope for Kroxigors?

A rough draft:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Skink Starseer (140)
Skink Starpriest (120)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- Warblade
Saurus Sunblood (130)

Battleline
30 x Saurus Warriors (270)
- Clubs
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
3 x Kroxigor (140)
- 1x Moonhammers

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

is this the worst list?

 

[Tav]

Is it possible to make a functioning list of Koatl's Claw with Saurus and squeeze in Kroxigor? It feels tight for points? Astrolith Bearer, Skink support heroes, Saurus Heroes on various mounts probably, probably Kroak I guess? Then I guess just fill in as much Warriors as possible with the 5 knights and then hope for Kroxigors?

A rough draft:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Skink Starseer (140)
Skink Starpriest (120)
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
- Warblade
Saurus Sunblood (130)

Battleline
30 x Saurus Warriors (270)
- Clubs
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
3 x Kroxigor (140)
- 1x Moonhammers

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

is this the worst list?

It’s not the worst. If you’re not taking sunclaw host then you might as well reorganise the warriors into a 40 and 10s, saving some points due to the horde discount

 

[LizardWizard]

Is it possible to make a functioning list of Koatl's Claw with Saurus and squeeze in Kroxigor? It feels tight for points? Astrolith Bearer, Skink support heroes, Saurus Heroes on various mounts probably, probably Kroak I guess? Then I guess just fill in as much Warriors as possible with the 5 knights and then hope for Kroxigors?

I would try something like this:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
- Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders:
Saurus Sunblood (130)
- General
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony

Battleline:
40 x Saurus Warriors (320)
- Spears
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs

Units:
6 x Kroxigor (280)
- 2x Moonhammers

Battalions:
Sunclaw Temple-host (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs:
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132

 

[Putzfrau]

I would try something like this:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Koatl's Claw
- Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders:
Saurus Sunblood (130)
- General
- Command Trait: Dominant Predator
- Artefact: Eviscerating Blade
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Spell: Celestial Harmony

Battleline:
40 x Saurus Warriors (320)
- Spears
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs
20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
- Clubs

Units:
6 x Kroxigor (280)
- 2x Moonhammers

Battalions:
Sunclaw Temple-host (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs:
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132

really like the look of that. I'd probably swap the krox for two units of chamo skinks if you wanted to make the most competitive version, but i think that leader/battleline core is a good starting place for any Sunclaw list.

 

[Krissey]

really like the look of that. I'd probably swap the krox for two units of chamo skinks if you wanted to make the most competitive version, but i think that leader/battleline core is a good starting place for any Sunclaw list.

yeah. My Ironjawz (Big Waaagh! Allegiance) are my most competitive army. If I’m playing Seraphon it’s going to be for the models I like. I’m already prepping my Ironjawz for Nashcon so this is purely for aesthetics and fun but also that which has the potential to hold its own instead of getting massacred by even the most casual lists.

 

[LizardWizard]

Yeah, I think it could use some shooting as well. Not sure if 6x Krox is needed when you have so many warriors. Hand of Glory on one of the Skink Starpriest could also be worth the risk. I just hate to lose access to Celestial harmony in a Coalesced army.

Also, Kroxigor are awesome! Maybe just take the 1x Moonhammer though. Hordes a little less common than they use to be.

 

[Krissey]

Yeah, I think it could use some shooting as well. Not sure if 6x Krox is needed when you have so many warriors. Hand of Glory on one of the Skink Starpriest could also be worth the risk. I just hate to lose access to Celestial harmony in a Coalesced army.

Also, Kroxigor are awesome! Maybe just take the 1x Moonhammer though. Hordes a little less common than they use to be.

I guess I don’t fully understand the implications of Seraphon. Playing with Ironjawz it’s usually smaller blocks with an average bravery of about 7-8 so losing people to Battleshock sometimes happens but doesn’t seem that bad. Although otoh I’ve never played with a 40 strong block of anything either.

It seems between Kroak and all the priests abilities and starting with 2 CP it might be fine to not take hand of glory because there’s a command ability in the GHB for that?

Maybe 1 CP and Battleshock Immunity is > No CP rr1 but if you lose many warriors then I guess a lot more will flee?

I see Bravery 8 and think “hey that’s pretty good” but at most I’ve only ever taken 15 ArdBoyz a unit with 2 wounds each and a 6+ FNP haha. It’s a whole different animal I guess.

I was kind of drawn to Seraphon for the shooting side. I don’t like Bonesplittaz and I don’t want to run Arrowboyz but it seemed to me I could run something similar to Ironjawz but also with shooting.

in my mind like Scar Veteran on Carnosaur = more fragile Megaboss on Maw-Krusha, Saurus Guard = ArdBoyz and Knights = Gore-Gruntas and the Skink Priests are more or less = Warchanters and then there’s a truck load of shooting options over that. Kroxigors are what Brutes wish they were. Same points too. Look at their Warscrolls though. I’d take Kroxigors any day of the week.

 

[LizardWizard]

I like Kroxigor a lot as a unit. I also prefer them to brutes, but they are better at different tasks. Brutes are on 40mm vs 50mm bases and have 15 wounds to a unit instead of 12. So a bit more resilient and suffer less damage decay at the battle goes on. Krox also really need something keyword Skink near them. Similar to how Brutes benefit greatly from warchantas.

 

[Krissey]

I like Kroxigor a lot as a unit. I also prefer them to brutes, but they are better at different tasks. Brutes are on 40mm vs 50mm bases and have 15 wounds to a unit instead of 12. So a bit more resilient and suffer less damage decay at the battle goes on. Krox also really need something keyword Skink near them. Similar to how Brutes benefit greatly from warchantas.

I feel as though it would be natural to perhaps have a Skink Starseer or a Skink Starpriest nearby either way, both for protection of the Skink and to always ensure they'd be within range to buff....for instance the Starpriest's poison buff, or the Starseers ability to improve their save (or decrease their enemies).

It seems like a fully Seraphon army with Slann, Skinks, Saurus and the like aren't really possible on a semi-competitive level though. Most lists I've seen go ALL skinks or ALL Saurus and it's too difficult to mix and match a classic like Saurus up front, skinks in the back shooting over into the enemy style? Or Salamanders, or Razordons or whatever other form of shooting you prefer.

 

[LizardWizard]

Yeah, mixed list are rough for us. Saurus Knights and Saurus Guard, or Terradons/Salamanders are pretty easy to inject into any list. But if you want to bring the synergies of each there just isn't the hero space space.

 

[Krissey]

Yeah, mixed list are rough for us. Saurus Knights and Saurus Guard, or Terradons/Salamanders are pretty easy to inject into any list. But if you want to bring the synergies of each there just isn't the hero space space.

And thus it's like welp I'd rather play the Koalt's Claw (Aggressive Saurus list) and include some Kroxigor's and it be what it is. Also it's the reason i got out of Seraphon in the first place about 2 years ago: They weren't this massive aggressive melee army I thought they'd be. They look it now though!

 

[Nart]

Played another game. I am definitely taking sallies to the tournament. They do insane stuff. The only thing that can survive them is, probably, hearthguard berzerkers. Even Petrifex Nagash couldn't handle them. They literally delete stuff and 12" is their only disadvantage.

 

[Grotpunter]

Played another game. I am definitely taking sallies to the tournament. They do insane stuff. The only thing that can survive them is, probably, hearthguard berzerkers. Even Petrifex Nagash couldn't handle them. They literally delete stuff and 12" is their only disadvantage.

Feels like Salamanders have little to no downsides. Insane damage, really good save and rather tanky with the Handlers. You can easily make them run + shoot with a Priest, so the “short” range isnt even that bad (20”+D6 threat range is good) and give them 3+ save. 2+ with a Starseer, 1+ vs shooting with a Slann etc.

Even in Coalesced you can congaline the Handlers back 6” within a hero and just remove models between the Handler within 6” and the Salamanders and use inspiring presence that way (the Handler will die due to coherency), means their low Bravery wont be that big of a deal.

It is safe to say I managed to snatch 6 Salamanders with the old sailback. Painting them up as we speak!

 

[Nart]

eels like Salamanders have little to no downsides.

Even without run+charge Sallies have 18" threat range. They are good in melee, they are good at range, they have speed, they have bodies, their save is not bad and they have more wounds in full squad than any our monster except dread saurian. And this is without any buffs applied.

I hate how they are better than any other unit in basic units category. For example, terradons can do a lot of mortal wounds and wipe out almost any unit in the game in one go, but at the sama time they are harder to use, very fragile and things can go really wrong. Finally, they are one time use. High risk, high reward as it should be.

Same with skinks. They can become very strong with buffs, but without them they are chaff.

This is not true for salamanders. Unless you kill single last of them, they will HURT.

 

[Nart]

Okay, after playing a tournament I can state that range can be a real issue for salamander alpha-strike list. As I mentioned in another thread, Tzeentch counters it well. 12x salamanders are still not enough to kill horros fast and they can easily screen heroes by setting them up more than 3" from the chaff. This can be a problem, if your opponent also has a good range, which is true for tzeentch and, probably for CoS - still haven't faced them yet. Bodies can also be a problem. Bad rolls on CCP can screw up a lot of things.

Still, the list is very strong, but I won't call it broken. IMO, it is perfect for team tournaments, where it can both wreck some armies and hold very good against most of other armies.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Okay, after playing a tournament I can state that range can be a real issue for salamander alpha-strike list. As I mentioned in another thread, Tzeentch counters it well. 12x salamanders are still not enough to kill horros fast and they can easily screen heroes by setting them up more than 3" from the chaff. This can be a problem, if your opponent also has a good range, which is true for tzeentch and, probably for CoS - still haven't faced them yet. Bodies can also be a problem. Bad rolls on CCP can screw up a lot of things.

Still, the list is very strong, but I won't call it broken. IMO, it is perfect for team tournaments, where it can both wreck some armies and hold very good against most of other armies.

on top of all that for the same price as salamanders you can get 2-3 times the damage in both CoS and tzeench it's one of the many reasons i've never thought salamanders where broken there is just way to many things in t he game that are much better