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Tutorial Seraphon Overview (updated to AoS 3.0)

Jason839 said:
After getting some practice games in I’m of the opinion you must take a shadowstrike battalion in Starborne. The rippers and the terradons really need the chief to excel and the only way to reliably make sure the chief is right there where you need it to be is lord of space and time.
Click to expand...

I must test it in real games, but I think it's hard to use terradons dropped from the sky.
End of move phase: losat the chief and land the terradons (at 9" from enemy): even with +3 from cogs and hunter's steed you need the terradons to fly over the target unit: you need a hell of a roll on that charge, and it could even be just impossible against a large target.
If the terradons are already on the table, is much simpler with the additional movement and the abilities / spells granted by other skink heroes.
 
Killer Angel said:
I must test it in real games, but I think it's hard to use terradons dropped from the sky.
End of move phase: losat the chief and land the terradons (at 9" from enemy): even with +3 from cogs and hunter's steed you need the terradons to fly over the target unit: you need a hell of a roll on that charge, end it could even be just impossible against a large target.
If the terradons are already on the table, is much simpler with the additional movement and the abilities / spells granted by other skink heroes.
Click to expand...
The pile-in could also work I guess, but terradons seem to like being on the ground for now Rippers seem to have an easier time though dropping from the sky.
 
Alladin the Paladin said:
Sounds reasonable. Another thing to keep in mind is that rippers lost 60 pts and terradons 30... so that’s 180pts saved for 9 rippers and 90 for terradons. That’s basically the price of the battalion there (and definitely for rippers). Arguably they are not as good anymore, but you are getting a pretty decent discount on them (especially for everyone that has buckets of rippers lying around)
Click to expand...
Killer Angel said:
I must test it in real games, but I think it's hard to use terradons dropped from the sky.
End of move phase: losat the chief and land the terradons (at 9" from enemy): even with +3 from cogs and hunter's steed you need the terradons to fly over the target unit: you need a hell of a roll on that charge, end it could even be just impossible against a large target.
If the terradons are already on the table, is much simpler with the additional movement and the abilities / spells granted by other skink heroes.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Rippers yes, terradons not likely. Now vs a low shooting army you could use SS to drop terradons behind the enemy, or on a flank, along a row of skinks in front of the terradons to screen them. Then next turn you have a better chance of terradons doing their thing. (Especially if positioning allows you to somehow use the FoS ability on the skinks to shoot and then prevent the charge)

edit: slightly better odds if you have potential for a double turn
 
Canas said:
The pile-in could also work I guess, but terradons seem to like being on the ground for now Rippers seem to have an easier time though dropping from the sky.
Click to expand...

Agree. in a starborne shadowstrike rippers are better.
To pick terradons and place them on the ground… you can do it, but it seems a waste of the shadowstrike
 
Killer Angel said:
I must test it in real games, but I think it's hard to use terradons dropped from the sky.
End of move phase: losat the chief and land the terradons (at 9" from enemy): even with +3 from cogs and hunter's steed you need the terradons to fly over the target unit: you need a hell of a roll on that charge, and it could even be just impossible against a large target.
If the terradons are already on the table, is much simpler with the additional movement and the abilities / spells granted by other skink heroes.
Click to expand...

I didn’t have much trouble. I was using Fangs of sotek as my constellation so I had an extra 3 inches of move characteristic from First to Battle. Got to charge of a unit a drop rocks on it, then do some damage and tie up another unit with melee.
 
Jason839 said:
I didn’t have much trouble. I was using Fangs of sotek as my constellation so I had an extra 3 inches of move characteristic from First to Battle. Got to charge of a unit a drop rocks on it, then do some damage and tie up another unit with melee.
Click to expand...

but losat / shadowstrike / deep strike in general, works at the end of the move phase, when you can't get the 3" additional move. You pop at 9" from enemy, then all you can do is shoot and charge.
That's why First to Battle works when the units are set-up on the battlefield and not kept in reserve.
 
Killer Angel said:
Agree. in a starborne shadowstrike rippers are better.
To pick terradons and place them on the ground… you can do it, but it seems a waste of the shadowstrike
Click to expand...

Before, the rippers were the payload for shadowstrike. Now, I figure that (with FoS at least) the skinks are in play as well. Not for raw damage potential, mind you.

I see a viable strategy in dropping down 2 large units of skinks and a priest behind enemy lines and near an objective or two, ideally in cover if possible (and the priest behind LoS-blocking terrain). You could LoSaT another hero behind them also, like a starpriest.

If they ignore the skinks they will be in a fair bit of trouble. If they charge them, at least 1 of 2 units should be able to run using the FoS CA.

This still leaves the terradons (or rippers even) to zoom in and drop their payload/charge whenever.

And if you can wait on dropping the Skinks until a turn you go second, you can hopefully capitalize on a double turn.

As I write this, I am very cognizant of the fact that this requires a lot of good fortune in terrain placement, deployment, etc, in addition to really good tactical placement of units. But I kind of feel a lot of our combos now rely on some mixture luck and synergy.

Sample List:

Kroak - 320
Astrolith - 140
Starpriest - 120
Terradon Chief - 70

10 Skinks - 60

Shadowstrike - 170
Skink Priest - 70
40 Skinks with blowpipes - 240
20 Skinks with blowpipes - 120 (*if expecting a charge, you could make one unit spears and put it up front. The blowpipes can still shoot from behind them, but when they are charged the spears have a better chance of wounding)
9 Terradons - 270

3 Salamanders - 240

Realmshaper Engine - 0
Balewind (u) - 40
Bound Purple Sun - 60
Bound Geminids - 70

1990

You can play around with the endless spells and either bolster your battleline, add more support, etc. Just spitballing.

(edited because I can’t stop dreaming about skinks)
 
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Canas said:
meh, it still has some great potential uses. Take an EoTG, stick an emerald swarm & slann next to him, laugh as your thunderstrike starhost now heals a potential 3D3 per turn, throw in a celestial apotheosis for good measure and heal one of your behemoths for a wopping 4D3.

It's just no longer the weird summoningbot thing that it used to be.
Click to expand...
The main issue is that there won't be anything left to heal in the current meta. At only 12-16 wounds on our behemoths in Thunderlizards with a 4+ save (even with Scaly Skin) they are going to be one shoot. Can't heal dead.
 
LizardWizard said:
The main issue is that there won't be anything left to heal in the current meta. At only 12-16 wounds on our behemoths in Thunderlizards with a 4+ save (even with Scaly Skin) they are going to be one shoot. Can't heal dead.
Click to expand...
it's why im fairly non pulsed when it comes to healing. it's far better to prevent damage then to heal it
 
Alladin the Paladin said:
Before, the rippers were the payload for shadowstrike. Now, I figure that (with FoS at least) the skinks are in play as well. Not for raw damage potential, mind you.

I see a viable strategy in dropping down 2 large units of skinks and a priest behind enemy lines and near an objective or two, ideally in cover if possible (and the priest behind LoS-blocking terrain). You could LoSaT another hero behind them also, like a starpriest.

If they ignore the skinks they will be in a fair bit of trouble. If they charge them, at least 1 of 2 units should be able to run using the FoS CA.

This still leaves the terradons (or rippers even) to zoom in and drop their payload/charge whenever.

And if you can wait on dropping the Skinks until a turn you go second, you can hopefully capitalize on a double turn.

As I write this, I am very cognizant of the fact that this requires a lot of good fortune in terrain placement, deployment, etc, in addition to really good tactical placement of units. But I kind of feel a lot of our combos now rely on some mixture luck and synergy.

Sample List:

Kroak - 320
Astrolith - 140
Starpriest - 120
Terradon Chief - 70

10 Skinks - 60

Shadowstrike - 170
Skink Priest - 70
40 Skinks with blowpipes - 240
20 Skinks with blowpipes - 120 (*if expecting a charge, you could make one unit spears and put it up front. The blowpipes can still shoot from behind them, but when they are charged the spears have a better chance of wounding)
9 Terradons - 270

3 Salamanders - 240

Realmshaper Engine - 0
Balewind (u) - 40
Bound Purple Sun - 60
Bound Geminids - 70

1990

You can play around with the endless spells and either bolster your battleline, add more support, etc. Just spitballing.

(edited because I can’t stop dreaming about skinks)
Click to expand...

Food for thoughts ;)
 
Alladin the Paladin said:
Before, the rippers were the payload for shadowstrike. Now, I figure that (with FoS at least) the skinks are in play as well. Not for raw damage potential, mind you.
Click to expand...

I like the idea, but I hate this 4+ roll on CA so much. On the other hand, your opponent cannot rely on failing it either.

LizardWizard said:
The main issue is that there won't be anything left to heal in the current meta. At only 12-16 wounds on our behemoths in Thunderlizards with a 4+ save (even with Scaly Skin) they are going to be one shoot. Can't heal dead.
Click to expand...

B-but... bastiladons! Let's just imagine that mortal wounds doesn't exist. Ignore the problem and it will be gone by itself, right? Right?
 
Nart said:
I like the idea, but I hate this 4+ roll on CA so much. On the other hand, your opponent cannot rely on failing it either.
Click to expand...


This. Assuming you have a few command points to spare at the time and you use your extra artefact to slap an aetherquartz brooch on the hero skink, you can really play some mind games. Especially if you drop them in such a way that they can’t be dealt with in one shot with one charge. It also takes the heat off your end of the board.

Again, it is somewhat situational, but I am liking the idea more and more... now I need to get 9 (+1) Terradons from somewhere...
 
LizardWizard said:
The main issue is that there won't be anything left to heal in the current meta. At only 12-16 wounds on our behemoths in Thunderlizards with a 4+ save (even with Scaly Skin) they are going to be one shoot. Can't heal dead.
Click to expand...
meh, imho it's fine in casual games but that'l definitly be an issue in more competitive games where people optimize things.

I'm curious what kinda rules would be necesary to stop it from happening though, or at least to make it come at a "fair" cost (e.g. killing a bastiladon in 1 turn would be fine if it takes the entire enemy army, instead of 1 terrorgheist eating him without needing support leaving the rest of the army free to rampage).
 
Nart said:
Overbuffed hordes are cancer.
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hordes simply scale too well since everything works on a per model basis. There should be some kind of limit to the amount of models that can benefit from a buff, or even that can get into a fight. Buffing 30+ models with a single spell is simply ridiculously efficient even if they have terrible baseline stats
 
Nart said:
I'd prefere better monsters. GW made some steps in that direction, but now everything is again where we started.
Click to expand...
Activation priority has done a lot to weaken hordes. Most hordes are a glass hammer. so, if they don't get to swing first they have a lot of their potency diminished. Mortek and Hearthguard are exceptions.
 
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