AoS Temple guard's place

[Carnikang]

A block of 20 guard is 400 pts. A block of 40 warriors is 320. Feels like that tells you everything you need right there. They did not intend for guard to be fielded in huge blocks like warriors.


A block of 10 guard is 200, 20 warriors is 180.

Both:
* 4+ save
* 5+/4+ jaws
* 5" move

Guard :
* 2 wounds
* 1", 3+ / 3+ , -1 , 2 attacks

Warriors with spear:
* 2" 4+/3

Warriors with club:
* 1" 4+/3+, -1



You get the same number of weapon attacks vs wounds, but you get 1 more jaw attack under coalesed for warriors. 20 warriors gives you + 20 extra jaw attacks to the guards +10. So 20 points gets you a +1 hit with the main weapon and the ability to soak more then 5 wounds and not drop your attacks in 1/2.

Its all a matter of if you want to run Sunclaw or not really. Under Sunclaw warriors get a -1 to jaws or weapon.

Out side of Sunclaw, they might have a place as a middle of the field unit. With emerald swarm they become very hard to remove. If you have a list that wants to push a Slaan forward, they will def have a place.

I don't think you're understanding what I was saying. I was saying they need to take the Anvil niche, rather than the hammer niche that saurus Warriors take. Yes they can be pretty tankie right now but they still melt under just about any other circumstance. You would still be better off taking 40 Warriors in a large block as an anvil, then you would be taking 20 guard.
If they made the warden worth taking, and they change what he does for guard, then guard themselves would be better as a whole and so would the warden.

As it stands, I only ever see myself taking 5 to 10 guard to escort a Slann, or Kroak..

 

[Fenix]

I don't think you're understanding what I was saying. I was saying they need to take the Anvil niche, rather than the hammer niche that saurus Warriors take. Yes they can be pretty tankie right now but they still melt under just about any other circumstance. You would still be better off taking 40 Warriors in a large block as an anvil, then you would be taking 20 guard.
If they made the warden worth taking, and they change what he does for guard, then guard themselves would be better as a whole and so would the warden.

As it stands, I only ever see myself taking 5 to 10 guard to escort a Slann, or Kroak..

I get what you are saying. It just feels like they are not a good anvil unit compared to the warriors. So I have been trying to run some of the numbers to see if they can make a decent "take and hold" type unit on a flank or if there is a better application.

 

[LizardWizard]

We are a hammer army, not an anvil army. Focusing on the hammer side instead of trying to prop up the anvil is almost certainly the better option for us.

 

[Fenix]

We are a hammer army, not an anvil army. Focusing on the hammer side instead of trying to prop up the anvil is almost certainly the better option for us.

So we are back where we started then. They are just worse warriors that really dnt have a role out side of "add 10 wounds to your slaan" for the time being.

 

[LizardWizard]

So we are back where we started then. They are just worse warriors that really dnt have a role out side of "add 10 wounds to your slaan" for the time being.

That is my assessment. They are good for Meeting Engagements and for soaking wounds for Kroak or a Slann. They aren't units to build an army around.

 

[Carnikang]

We are a hammer army, not an anvil army. Focusing on the hammer side instead of trying to prop up the anvil is almost certainly the better option for us.

Why exactly is being an hammer based army preventing us from having a good anvil unit or paired units?
The Bastilidon is edging on an anvil unit, being more defense than offense, with a giant taunting Target on its back.
The Dread Saurian doesn't hit very well, but he's an absolute tank at 35-37 wounds and massive area of denial. Classic Distraction Carnifex/Attention Tank.
There are several ways to provide plenty of healing in our army, across multiple fronts. Many of which heal multiple wounds.

I'm just not seeing why they can't be good in a different way from warriors in this format, instead of being relegated to a different game format entirely.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Why exactly is being an hammer based army preventing us from having a good anvil unit or paired units?
The Bastilidon is edging on an anvil unit, being more defense than offense, with a giant taunting Target on its back.
The Dread Saurian doesn't hit very well, but he's an absolute tank at 35-37 wounds and massive area of denial. Classic Distraction Carnifex/Attention Tank.
There are several ways to provide plenty of healing in our army, across multiple fronts. Many of which heal multiple wounds.

I'm just not seeing why they can't be good in a different way from warriors in this format, instead of being relegated to a different game format entirely.

because they are both bad anvils. the bastiladon is sturdy and cheap enough to make a good anvil but he is only one model so he can't hold objectives and he isn't threatening enough to make people deal with him you can safely ignore 1-3 bastiladons and they aren't fast enough to force the matter. or you just throw 10 guys at it and they fight for 3 rounds
the dread is not sturdy at all he still has a 4+ save and his big base works against him as you can get more models to hit him. most dedicated hammers in the game can kill him in 1 or 2 activations and he profiles badly. he also shares the same problem of only being 1 guy the immortal stardrake fell out of use for the same reasons to expensive for what you get
so as we need a heck of a lot to make our stuff durable we should play to our strengths we are good damage dealers run with it. i would have loved it if guard had been the heavy anvil we needed but they aren't mores the pity

 

[Canas]

Guard and the Eternity Warden will still have a space in Meeting Engagements at least.

What exactly would you take the warden for? It doesn't really add anything when compared to a sunblood or oldblood, and those can at least buff other units as well if your guards get killed. And as for protecting your slann, another unit of guard is cheaper and more effective. So I don't really see the warden having a place there either.

 

[ILKAIN]

that's not a battalion.

dang it, it used to be lol

 

[LizardWizard]

What exactly would you take the warden for? It doesn't really add anything when compared to a sunblood or oldblood, and those can at least buff other units as well if your guards get killed. And as for protecting your slann, another unit of guard is cheaper and more effective. So I don't really see the warden having a place there either.

If the only Saurus units I bring are Guard then the Warden is better than the Oldblood.

 

[Canas]

If the only Saurus units I bring are Guard then the Warden is better than the Oldblood.

meh, I'd say the oldblood is probably better if he gets an artifact given that he has more attacks and those tend to scale well with the number of attacks. But I must admit their profiles are remarkeably similar. Thought the difference was larger.

 

[Fenix]

because they are both bad anvils. the bastiladon is sturdy and cheap enough to make a good anvil but he is only one model so he can't hold objectives and he isn't threatening enough to make people deal with him you can safely ignore 1-3 bastiladons and they aren't fast enough to force the matter. or you just throw 10 guys at it and they fight for 3 rounds

The other issue with using 1-3 bastiladon is you are chewing up you behemoth slots on anvil units. I would rather have stegs or carno over a 2nd or 3rd bastiladon.

I like the concept of 1-2 guard units, batsiladon and an emerald swarm being used to push for and hold an objective. It just feels like it would be way too slow.

 

[Canas]

The other issue with using 1-3 bastiladon is you are chewing up you behemoth slots on anvil units. I would rather have stegs or carno over a 2nd or 3rd bastiladon.

I like the concept of 1-2 guard units, batsiladon and an emerald swarm being used to push for and hold an objective. It just feels like it would be way too slow.

put it on an objective in your own territory

 

[Fenix]

put it on an objective in your own territory

Fair enough. Basti is 220, 15 guard is 300. 520 points right there. Plop a Slaan in their, because they are slaan baby sitters still. Thats 780. Leaves you plenty for a firelance and some support guys.

I dnt hate this list:

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Seraphon) [1,970pts] ++
+ Leader +
Saurus Astrolith Bearer [140pts]
Skink Starpriest [120pts]
Slann Starmaster [260pts]
+ Behemoth +
Bastiladon [220pts]: Solar Engine
+ Battleline +
Saurus Guard [300pts]: 3x 5 Saurus Guards, Saurus Guard Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer
+ Battalion +
Firelance Temple-Host [870pts]
. Saurus Knights: 5 Saurus Knights, Celestite Warspear, Saurus Knight Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer
. Saurus Knights: Celestite Warspear, Saurus Knight Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer
. . 2x 5 Saurus Knights: 2x Powerful Jaws, 2x Snapping Jaws
. Saurus Knights: Celestite Warspear, Saurus Knight Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer
. . 2x 5 Saurus Knights: 2x Powerful Jaws, 2x Snapping Jaws
. Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur: [Koatl's Claw] Dominant Predator, Celestite Warspear, Eviscerating Blade, General
+ Allegiance +
Allegiance
. Allegiance: Seraphon
. . Coalesced: Koatl's Claw
+ Game Options +
Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost
+ Malign Sorcery +
Bound Endless Spell: Emerald Lifeswarm [60pts]
++ Total: [1,970pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe


Its just a matter of if 30 warriors would be better in the guard slot.