• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

AoS The new Battletome: A Discussion

Are you optimistic about our new battletome?

  • Yes

    Votes: 160 76.2%

  • No

    Votes: 20 9.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 30 14.3%
  • Total voters
    210
I've got it now, thank you! Holy Stegadon, bastis are good!

But don't trust those who yell, that this is OP. If an army can dish 2 MW a turn, Basti won't be a problem.
 
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble on the whole "Bastiladons are immune to Rend at full wounds" but this exact rules interaction has already come up and GW quickly removed it. When Codex: Orks came out in 40K, there was a stratagem called Loot it!

Use this Stratagem when a VEHICLE unit is destroyed within 3" of an ORK INFANTRY unit from your army. Improve the Save characteristic of that infantry unit by 1. A unit can only be affected by this Stratagem once per battle, and once affected, cannot be selected for the Mob Up Stratagem. If this Stratagem is used on a LOOTAS unit from your army, roll a D6; on a 4+ the CP spent to use this Stratagem is immediately refunded.
Click to expand...

Savvy Ork players quickly realised that if they used this on a unit with a 2+ save, such as Meganobz, they gained a 1+ save, and suddenly became immune to AP due to a rules quirk. The first errata for Codex: Orks quickly removed the capacity to do this:

Page 127 – Stratagems, Loot It! Change the first and second sentences of rules text to read: ‘Use this Stratagem when a Vehicle unit is destroyed. Select an Ork Infantry unit from your army that was either within 3" of the vehicle or embarked within it when it was destroyed. Improve the Save characteristic of that infantry unit by 1 (e.g. a Save characteristic of 6+ will become a Save characteristic of 5+), to a maximum of 2+.’
Click to expand...

Since AP and Rend work exactly the same between 40K and AoS, there's no reason to assume this is anything other than a similar oversight. I would absolutely expect this to be FAQed.
 
Galen said:
Since AP and Rend work exactly the same between 40K and AoS, there's no reason to assume this is anything other than a similar oversight. I would absolutely expect this to be FAQed.
Click to expand...
That's always a possibility, and if so it will likely be short lived as you say.

But we are talking about a model that is supposed to be tanky and actually was immune to rend less than a week ago, so I wouldn't say there's no chance that this is working as intended either.
 
VVolfsong said:
That's always a possibility, and if so it will likely be short lived as you say.

But we are talking about a model that is supposed to be tanky and actually was immune to rend less than a week ago, so I wouldn't say there's no chance that this is working as intended either.
Click to expand...

This - I think it will be left alone, since it is supposed to be a tanky unit, and it doesn't stay at a 1+ save for long. There is almost no way that the 1+ was intended to be a 2+ with rend reduction, since GW knows how to do rend immunity (see our old war scrolls). Clearly, GW intends the Bastiladon to start really tanky, then soften up once a few wounds are taken.

If it was also putting out Mawcrusha or Zombie dragon levels of damage, then there would be a problem. However, at 220 points, it has OK damage output at range, is poor in combat, has good survivability against regular wounds, and is susceptible to MW. Sounds balanced to me.

The 40k rules do work slightly differently - most AoS modifiers are clearly applied to rolls rather than the base value (except attack modifiers, or changes to equipment such as skink shields). There have been several units capable of achieving 2++ invuln saves in 40k, which is not less ridiculous...
 
Galen said:
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble on the whole "Bastiladons are immune to Rend at full wounds" but this exact rules interaction has already come up and GW quickly removed it. When Codex: Orks came out in 40K, there was a stratagem called Loot it!

Savvy Ork players quickly realised that if they used this on a unit with a 2+ save, such as Meganobz, they gained a 1+ save, and suddenly became immune to AP due to a rules quirk. The first errata for Codex: Orks quickly removed the capacity to do this:

Since AP and Rend work exactly the same between 40K and AoS, there's no reason to assume this is anything other than a similar oversight. I would absolutely expect this to be FAQed.
Click to expand...

And we would face similar trouble if our other abilities modified the save value. Instead, they alter the save rolls, which ends up having a different effect. You refer to a case where the stratagem modifies the actual save value, which had unintended effects and was FAQd, rather than an intentional buff at full health to one unit.
 
Lots of people analyzing stats in a vacuum and getting upset. Don’t be we are super strong now. We are back to the super synergistic Buff Lizardmen days. We take decent units and throw 3-4 buffs on them and then decimate all. Almost all our units have the ability to do mortal wounds on 6s and you can get 80-120 attacks out of some units. Like skinks? You can take a block of 40, stack buffs and they average out 20 mortal wounds a turn. That is really strong. It just takes planning and dedication in your list building. Everything is good now! You just need to use your synergistic buffs.
 
I don’t understand why people are saying we can only get max 3d3 summoning points a turn. The exact wording says “in your hero phase, before attempting to cast the first spell with EACH friendly Slann or oracle, you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration. If you do so, receive D3 celestial points but the number of spells that model can cast is reduced by 1.”

would that not mean if you ran Kroak, a Slann, and an Oracle on trog you could get 5d3 points?
 
Tim smith said:
would that not mean if you ran Kroak, a Slann, and an Oracle on trog you could get 5d3 points?
Click to expand...

But why would you ever take them in one list together. It is 840 pts - almost half of your army. And this would be absolutely inefficient. The closest thing is Slann, Kroak and Astrolith for magic spam build.

Otherwise you can take 5 slann and an astrolith and get 7d3 CCP every turn, but this will be the whole army.
 
Tim smith said:
I don’t understand why people are saying we can only get max 3d3 summoning points a turn. The exact wording says “in your hero phase, before attempting to cast the first spell with EACH friendly Slann or oracle, you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration. If you do so, receive D3 celestial points but the number of spells that model can cast is reduced by 1.”

would that not mean if you ran Kroak, a Slann, and an Oracle on trog you could get 5d3 points?
Click to expand...
Yes, this is correct. which is why i put together a list with kroak, two slaan, two oracles, and an astrolith for maximum magic fuckery.
i flilled out with skinks and the usual endless spells (bound and unbound versions depending)
 
Nart said:
But why would you ever take them in one list together. It is 840 pts - almost half of your army. And this would be absolutely inefficient. The closest thing is Slann, Kroak and Astrolith for magic spam build.
Click to expand...
because sometimes weird and niche lists can be fun to play, especially in a casual setting.
 
I heard somewhere that the skink Oracle didn’t get another spell, just the shield, bolt, and comet but I assume that would be expressly noted.

Does anyone know if I heard correctly or am I just off base?
 
What i like is that finally the Command Traits let us make actual choices.
No more summoning Slann with double teleport.
CHOICES!!!

A Slann that can reroll a roll to cast / dispel is always welcome
Wanna go melee with a buffed saurus hero with a blade of reality? Let's reroll 1s.

But the skinks are IMO the winners.
Not a wizard? Use for free the command ability of the Skink priest.
Or my favourite: just add 1 to saves and move.
Both are excellent on a stegadon chief or on a EotG... with the second one, to reach save 2+ for your behemoth General will be trivial.
 
Master of Star rituals on Stegadon Chief is basically +1 to-hit on all weapons, including mount, which can be use on another unit. But, I feel, defensive buffs is still superior on Chief.
 
Just read the artefacts.

The ones for saurus heroes are kinda meh.

For a Slann, ixti grubs are excellent, basically giving him the effects of a command trait, but better.

But the winners, once again, are the skinks.
When the hero is killed, roll a dice: 1-3 it dies, on a 4-6 all the wounds are healed and wounds still not assigned are negated.
If you have a Troglodon or EotG, this is a must have.
 
Question. Can we agree to refer to Itxi Grubs as Itxi Tendies from now on? It's fitting....

Also, yeah, Skinks won out on Artefacts. I honestly wish Sauras and Skinks could share theirs with one another.
 
Effects that activate on a 4+ are bad, plain and simple.

So for EotG, either Stegadon Helm or Feather Cloak, weighing offense vs defense.
 
I like the plus to save helm that stacks with the plus to save trait. 2+ save on a trog that can mystic shield itself.

or the thermal rider griff charm combo item.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top