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Tutorial Seraphon Overview (updated to AoS 3.0)

Quick question though, due to the buffs in damage a carnosaur got, is it jut me who thinks a dread saurian is far overcosted now? As it’s exactly double the points of a carnosaur now? I’ll always use my dread whether it’s worth it or not, but apart for the fact it seems to be the only thing in our army that has a rend of -2 now, it almost doesn’t seem worth it, especially as most of our buffs now cannot be used on it as it is neither skink nor saurus :oops:
 
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substract 1 damage from all succesfull attacks. Not damage characteristics.

Also, even if it was damage characteristics: I'd argue that the D3 damage done by say comet's call is it's damage characteristic so that'd still work.

The only potential point of contention would be if things like spells, or an mawtribes trampling charge "attacks or not. Though personally I'd say they are attacks, cuz exempting them would lead to the stupid situations with weird exemptions...
 
Judge dread (Saurian) said:
@Canas, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the rule reduces the damage characteristic, so mortal wounds wouldn’t count? Don’t have the book though so I’m not sure on the wording
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This is correct. Scale Skink reduces the
Canas said:
View attachment 67648

substract 1 damage from all succesfull attacks. Not damage characteristics.

Also, even if it was damage characteristics: I'd argue that the D3 damage done by say comet's call is it's damage characteristic so that'd still work.

The only potential point of contention would be if things like spells, or an mawtribes trampling charge "attacks or not. Though personally I'd say they are attacks, cuz exempting them would lead to the stupid situations with weird exemptions...
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An attack according to the core rules is an action taken by a unit in that uses the profile of a melee or ranged weapon. So, Spells and Abilities are not attacks. However, the MWs from Hearthguard polearms would be reduced from 2 to 1 because they are dealt from the result of a successful attack.
 
LizardWizard said:
An attack according to the core rules is an action taken by a unit in that uses the profile of a melee or ranged weapon. So, Spells and Abilities are not attacks. However, the MWs from Hearthguard polearms would be reduced from 2 to 1 because they are dealt from the result of a successful attack.
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well that results in rather a stupid situation RAW then :P

I'd be curious if it gets errata'd, or at least F.A.Q.-ed, cuz having it affect some sources of damage, but not others, for no rhyme or reason (it's not like it's an anti-magic shield or something designed to counter spells), is just plain weird and confusing, and I doubt that's intended.
 
Canas said:
well that results in rather a stupid situation RAW then :p

I'd be curious if it gets errata'd, or at least F.A.Q.-ed, cuz having it affect some sources of damage, but not others, for no rhyme or reason (it's not like it's an anti-magic shield or something designed to counter spells), is just plain weird and confusing, and I doubt that's intended.
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I mean, their Scales stop them when they get hit with a missile or weapon. That seems fluffy that it wouldn't stop a spell. If GW had intended it to reduces each instance of damage dealt to the unit by 1 to a minimum of 1 they could have just written it that way.
 
Canas said:
Some remarks:
- Starpriest venom is also usefull on elite units, not just on hordes. For example a stegadon has a potential 19 attacks (without buffs) of which approximatly 2/3ths will hit. So about 15 hits that can proc the poison. That is, on average, only 8 fewer hits than an unbuffed unit of 80 skinks. So on average about 1 mortal wound less. Hordes might be the most effective users, but elite units aren't necesarly that far behind. Plus, elite units are sturdier, making it more likely they'l actually get into combat and use the poison before being reduced to half-strength or worse, annihilated.

- Ripper chief: his command ability affects all rippers including himself within 18", also it stacks (one of our few command abilities that still stacks). This will very quickly add up to a lot of attacks as you'l get 2 per model per use. You can build a list around this as well.

- EoTG is basicly a healbot that sits on a stegadon. Which will have definitly have uses in lists with many multi-wound stuffs (heroes, behemoths, kroxigor, rippers, terradons). It makes for a very nice support unit, or a frontline skink to use for vassal as it'l be relativly difficult to kill with all the healing. The limit to one engine per turn is kinda bad though...

Also, for summoning you said you can "avoid" a spellcast, that should be "forgo" or "give up" I guess. Minor detail :p
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yep, good points.
 
I still haven't made up my mind on Skink Loadouts. I rather like Javs and shields for FoS Skink Hordes. There should be enough movement to get Javs in range turn 2 very easily, and in some cases turn 1. When in range they preform much better for damage. And when the FoS command ability is triggered on them their shooting is much more effective. Bolt Spitters and Clubs can deal some real damage with the Serpent's Staff though. Also, a blob of Skinks with Shield and Spitters in cover will be a 4+ save. Which isn't bad for our diminutive friends.

Still haven't made up on mind on if I really ever want to not bring a Slann in favor of the Starseer/Troglodon. The 18" and 3d6 Charge is great. So maybe I will start taking a Starseer and Skink Priest in Skink themed list instead of the Slann. For the same price you break even on 3 spells. but, gain 2 Skink Lores and have more potential CP. Lastly the Serpents Staff and Astromancer's Staff buffs are pretty fantastic on Skinks, Terradons, & Ripperdactyls.
 
Canas said:
View attachment 67648

substract 1 damage from all succesfull attacks. Not damage characteristics.

Also, even if it was damage characteristics: I'd argue that the D3 damage done by say comet's call is it's damage characteristic so that'd still work.

The only potential point of contention would be if things like spells, or an mawtribes trampling charge "attacks or not. Though personally I'd say they are attacks, cuz exempting them would lead to the stupid situations with weird exemptions...
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edit: hooray i was wrong!
 
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Putzfrau said:
I still dont think Scaly Skin applies to those. Mortal wounds dont deal damage, they deal mortal wounds. That's why on comets call It's not d3 damage, Its d3 mortal wounds. At no point does GW ever say a model takes damage when referring to MW. They "suffer mortal wounds" not damage.

I'm sure itll be faqd, but that's how I'd read it even if it is super pedantic.

If there's precedence for GW referring to MW suffered as damage, than i'd love to be mistaken.
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Mortal are just damage that is dealt which by passes the save characteristic. It is still damage dealt.
 
LizardWizard said:
Mortal are just damage that is dealt which by passes the save characteristic. It is still damage dealt.
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"The damage inflicted on the target is equal to the mortal wounds suffered"

That seems to answer it. I literally just had this argument with someone in my AoS group and they convinced me otherwise. Glad to see he (and I) were mistaken! Long live reducing mortal wounds... as long as they come from attacks!
 
Thank you for what you are doing! I can't describe, how much I appretiate it!

Some remarks:

1) Slann's command ability now gives +1 to saves against ranged attacks, instead of rerolls;
2) Skink Chief on Stegadon is actually 270 pts vs Stegadon's 240;
3) Astrolith not only increases range of spells, but also adds 1 to cast rolls. I even thought for a second, that he lost that ability, but it is still there;
4) Starseer allows 3d6 charge for any units, not only skinks.

On damage from spells - the guy with old BCR told me that Stone Skeleton reduced damage from spells too. IDK, maybe, the wording was different for it. But RAW spells are not attacks - the target suffers mortal wounds like from Terrain or from friendly endless spells. Same situation is with tau in 40k - drones can intercept attacks, but mortal wounds from psychic powers go straight to battlesuits.

Judge dread (Saurian) said:
dread saurian is far overcosted now
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It was overcosted since 2.0, wasn't it? (Or even earlier, I barely remember)

But there is one interesting application of it in current lists - his 24" battleshock immunity is very useful for coalesced skinks and hunting packs. Unfortunately, his damage is lacking compared to two scar-veterans on carnosaur with way less synergies. Maybe, FW will update its cost or even warscroll?
 
@Nart yeah, it’s always been very costly, but I always felt it was a price worth paying due to the amount of damage it could deal and the fact you could synergies it pretty well with certain things, but now I don’t know if it’s worth it at all, but yeah, that’s a good point, a dread saurian will be extremely useful in a skink-heavy army...now I just need more skinks, only have 70...:(
 
Killer Angel said:
We have so many units and so many changes from something that was "fixed" since 5 years, that mistakes slip through.
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It is okay. Everyone makes lots of mistakes with new rules, especially when changes are THAT drastic, and that's why we are helping each other.

Judge dread (Saurian) said:
it’s always been very costly, but I always felt it was a price worth paying due to the amount of damage it could deal and the fact you could synergies it pretty well with certain things, but now I don’t know if it’s worth it at all, but yeah, that’s a good point, a dread saurian will be extremely useful in a skink-heavy army
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He still can benifit from some abilities. Thuderlizard will give it +2 wounds and coalseced - +1 Jaw attack. Statseer allow 3d6 charge and +1 save, skink priest - run and charge and +1 save. Fly from slann will help a bit too. He can be a massive distraction and very mobile one too. He is still very viable in friendly games.

Unfortunately, FW models and rules seem like very cool fan mods for main games. They are fun but sometimes completely out of the original ideas of the main rules.
 
@Nart that’s a good point, also, thanks for pointing out all the different buffs that can still affect him, but yeah, I think they should drop it to probably 300-350pts, or just give it a few more attacks, also, I don’t understand why the base needs to be THAT big for it, it sticks out like 3-4” either side of the model, it’s ridiculous, my friends and I tend to use a pretty terrain heavy table too, so that’s always fun :confused:
 
Wait a minute... Sword of Judgement is triggered on Modified rolls of 6+ to-hit, right?

holdup.jpg
 
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