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AoS Mathhammer average marshal statistics of the Seraphon

ok lets do a new and old comparison for old blood on foot again not a value of the model just how good he is in combat
old stats attacks against 3+ save
suntooth maul and bight...............warblade and bight......warspear and bight.......Great blade and bight
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old stats attacks against 4+ save
suntooth maul and bight...............warblade and bight......warspear and bight.......Great blade and bight
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old stats attacks against 5+ save
suntooth maul and bight...............warblade and bight......warspear and bight.......Great blade and bight
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..
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old stats attacks against 6+ save
suntooth maul and bight..............warblade and bight......warspear and bight.......Great blade and bight
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...
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..
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..
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new stats attacks against 3+save
suntooth maul and bight.............warblade and bight......warspear and bight...Great blade and bight
graph.php
graph.php
......
graph.php
....
graph.php

new stats attacks against 4+save
suntooth maul and bight...............warblade and bight.....warspear and bight....Great blade and bight
graph.php
...
graph.php
.
graph.php
....
graph.php
 
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new stats attacks against 5+save
suntooth maul and bight.................warblade and bight.........warspear and bight.......Great blade and bight
graph.php
.
graph.php
.
graph.php
.
graph.php

new stats attacks against 6+save
suntooth maul and bight...................warblade and bight.............warspear and bight......Great blade and bight
graph.php
.
graph.php
.
graph.php
.
graph.php
 
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effective wounds old
no rend 14
1 rend 14
2 rend 8.16
3 rend 7

efective wounds new

no rend 21
1 rend 14
2 rend 10.333
3 rend 8.16

so over all he has gaind about 1 damage and a good chunk of durability against no rend attacks every thing else is negligible i still would not use him in combat
 
Thanks for the report. I suspect that the old blood will remain a buff hero for saurus heavy armies. Hopefully the other saurus see more improvement.
 
Jason839 said:
Thanks for the report. I suspect that the old blood will remain a buff hero for saurus heavy armies. Hopefully the other saurus see more improvement.
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hopefully the other heroes are better at buffing i have a fealing that the old blood on foot will not see much play. but time will tell
 
Erta Wanderer said:
hopefully the other heroes are better at buffing i have a fealing that the old blood on foot will not see much play. but time will tell
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it was good in the 1 sunclaw build where you spammed 3 units of 40 warriors and sent them fully buffed in 3 waves. If that build is still a thing he may.
 
Jason839 said:
it was good in the 1 sunclaw build where you spammed 3 units of 40 warriors and sent them fully buffed in 3 waves. If that build is still a thing he may.
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the sunblood gave rerolls not a +1 to hit rerolling 4s to hit is a 25% increase a +1 to hit is +16% this is the first + to hit we have gotten(and like the worst form of + to hit only afecting one unit and only a limmited selection the only thing that saves it is it can work on carnasuars) and it is the second most common buff that GW has been handing out im going to bet that we get at least 3 other sorses that provide +1 to hit and in that case it comes down to what else the hero does and in the case of OBoF that is nothing
 
Erta Wanderer said:
the sunblood gave rerolls not a +1 to hit rerolling 4s to hit is a 25% increase a +1 to hit is +16% this is the first + to hit we have gotten(and like the worst form of + to hit only afecting one unit and only a limmited selection the only thing that saves it is it can work on carnasuars) and it is the second most common buff that GW has been handing out im going to bet that we get at least 3 other sorses that provide +1 to hit and in that case it comes down to what else the hero does and in the case of OBoF that is nothing
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That is true.
 
Meh, it's better. But what's most valuable about the changes is that the chances of 0 damage have significantly dropped for most load-outs. At least it'l now reliably achieve something. Might not be impressive, but at least now you won't see him "fighting" a minimum sized unit of enemy fodder for 3 turns with neither side scoring any wounds...

Which imho is at least a decently good change. Especially if other synergies end up being good. Though I'm dissapointed that the spear is now the weakest weapon. It was the most reliable weapon on him...

As for the command ability, it's decent I guess. And we currently lack +1's to X buffs (for some reason we only really have re-roll 1's buffs...). So I guess that's nice. But it only affecting 1 unit is a bit underwhelming, unless we get loads of command points or something so we can spread it out, or combine it with other command abilities.

As for potential uses, I can see him being worthwhile to summon. It's quite sturdy & it''l definitly outdamage a unit of 10 skinks or warriors. So might be a nice cheap option to summon to attack a minor enemy unit or something. I don't see it being very usefull aside from that though. Maybe as a reasonable hero-tax for some battalion. But that's about it.
 
Canas said:
Meh, it's better. But what's most valuable about the changes is that the chances of 0 damage have significantly dropped for most load-outs. At least it'l now reliably achieve something. Might not be impressive, but at least now you won't see him "fighting" a minimum sized unit of enemy fodder for 3 turns with neither side scoring any wounds...

Which imho is at least a decently good change. Especially if other synergies end up being good. Though I'm dissapointed that the spear is now the weakest weapon. It was the most reliable weapon on him...

As for the command ability, it's decent I guess. And we currently lack +1's to X buffs (for some reason we only really have re-roll 1's buffs...). So I guess that's nice. But it only affecting 1 unit is a bit underwhelming, unless we get loads of command points or something so we can spread it out, or combine it with other command abilities.

As for potential uses, I can see him being worthwhile to summon. It's quite sturdy & it''l definitly outdamage a unit of 10 skinks or warriors. So might be a nice cheap option to summon to attack a minor enemy unit or something. I don't see it being very usefull aside from that though. Maybe as a reasonable hero-tax for some battalion. But that's about it.
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but is he better than 20 skinks, he currently costs 12 points.
 
ILKAIN said:
but is he better than 20 skinks, he currently costs 12 points.
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yeah, but the 20 skinks bring far more bodies & the oldblood isn't going to kill 19 enemies to "even out" the bodycount.

However, compared to say 10 skinks it's far more doable.

Say you have the following situation to grab an objective:
You can summon 10 skinks, but 5 of them will probably die.
Or
You can summon 1 oldblood and he'l probably kill 4 enemies.

This would be a situation in which the oldblood is potentially viable as a summon. But it does require his summon cost to go down.

imho, this is one of the biggest issues with summoning costs in general, they're heavily in favour of summoning loads of fodder, due to them being cheap & bodycount being the most important when it comes to objectives. The cost of summoning is too tied to their combat stats, but seems to largely ignore a units utility (for most armies, not just ours)
 
Canas said:
yeah, but the 20 skinks bring far more bodies & the oldblood isn't going to kill 19 enemies to "even out" the bodycount.

However, compared to say 10 skinks it's far more doable.

Say you have the following situation to grab an objective:
You can summon 10 skinks, but 5 of them will probably die.
Or
You can summon 1 oldblood and he'l probably kill 4 enemies.

This would be a situation in which the oldblood is potentially viable as a summon. But it does require his summon cost to go down.

imho, this is one of the biggest issues with summoning costs in general, they're heavily in favour of summoning loads of fodder, due to them being cheap & bodycount being the most important when it comes to objectives. The cost of summoning is too tied to their combat stats, but seems to largely ignore a units utility (for most armies, not just ours)
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I understand this, my question is, is he better than the 20 for summoning purposes... if we are comparing summoning him to summoning skinks, we have to use the same number of models we can get for the same number of CCP... otherwise its an unfair comparison. there's no way his cost drops to 6... I don't think that's in the realm of the most twisted GW "we don't know how to balance shit" rules makers lol
 
my biggest fear for this guy is that all the old bloods will share the same command trait like how the ork warboss and mawcrusha do. and in the same way the foot hero will never be used becouse the mounted versions are better and do the same thing
 
ILKAIN said:
I understand this, my question is, is he better than the 20 for summoning purposes... if we are comparing summoning him to summoning skinks, we have to use the same number of models we can get for the same number of CCP... otherwise its an unfair comparison. there's no way his cost drops to 6... I don't think that's in the realm of the most twisted GW "we don't know how to balance shit" rules makers lol
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6CCP in the current system might be too cheap. But I'd be inclined to argue he should be more similar in cost to 10 skinks than to 20. Keeping the current system as a benchmark, maybe he should be say 8 points.

Again as I said before, summoning costs currently heavily favours utility over stats. Leaving especially "minor" combat options, like the oldblood relativly unused as there simply isn't a good use-case for them. You're nearly always better off just summoning 10-20 bodies, taking a proper support unit, or saving up for one of the "major" combat options. I'd like that to change.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
my biggest fear for this guy is that all the old bloods will share the same command trait like how the ork warboss and mawcrusha do. and in the same way the foot hero will never be used becouse the mounted versions are better and do the same thing
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This is a legitimate concern.

Though the Warscroll does indicate they do recognize that we need a buff in some areas. I'll take itz even if it's not a huge buff.
 
My fear is that a lot of our army might get the Chaos Chariot treatment. They Got a lateral buff and went from 80MPP to 120MPP. I am a skeptic till I see the changes and the points cost.

That being said I maintain optimism that the army will still be tournament viable.
 
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