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The Random Thread of Random Randomness


You beat me to posting this. We must have similar Youtube recommendations...

Anyway this movie was greenlit 4 years ago so it's too late to stop it. I expect this movie to lose money. It's just a question whether this movie "bomb" or merely "underperform."

I wasn't a huge fan of the James Bond franchise to begin with. I liked it as a teenager, but nowadays it doesn't do much for me.
 
Surprise surprise but I disagree with several of his points. First off I think the whole “Bond is irrelevant” thing has nothing to do with “wokeness” or anything - it’s just a standard movie plot concept. “The old hero has to go back to to his job and finds everything has supposedly become better and left him behind” is something that has been done countless times, and at the end it turns out the old guy learns a bit from the new ones and they in turn learn that he isn’t quite so irrelevant and still has stuff to teach. There’s a perfectly valid argument for that being a tired and overdone trope and to criticise the writing in that sense is completely reasonable, but to blame “wokeness” for it is silly and to assume the eventual message of the film is “Bond is irrelevant” even more so.

I feel fairly similarly about his point with Bond’s replacement as well. There are at least obvious degrees of feminism in that aspect, which I think is justified given that in most of the other Bond films women are generally just presented as expendable, interchangeable and only really there for eye candy. There might be an argument for a bit of that in films, but I think the sheer extent of the “Bond Girl” trope means that the problematic parts of it should really be addressed. However, the part is disagree with is the idea that the film is trying to show she is better than him. It’s another standard movie convention. “Old Guy comes in and is partnered with new one. New one bad mouths them a bit, and does a couple of things that suggests they are possibly better. New one gets into trouble, old one saves them. Both realise they each have something to teach one another and win the day as equals”. You could argue it’s been done to death, and I find it hard to believe that the author couldn’t see that plot coming a mile off. My concern is that (based on the trailer), they have the new character behave like such an arsehole that either the comeuppance won’t feel enough, or it will be so excessive that it will end up being counterproductive and the moral ends up being “stupid feminist, leave it to the old sexist guy”. If they didn’t play up her arseholeishness as much, it would be far easier to present them as equals without making either of them seem bad, and end with the perfectly healthy moral that women can be more than just eye candy from the new agent (which would be more of the franchise acknowledging that rather than actually preaching it to Bond or the audience; he himself I don’t think has actually been depicted as particularly sexist), and that just became something is old doesn’t mean it’s obsolete from Bond himself. As it is though, although I’m pretty sure that will be the intended morals, whether they actually pull it off is a different matter.

However, possibly my biggest gripe with him is the fact he tries to make an entire point about Bond supposedly not responding to some of the new agent’s taunts. It’s a trailer for goodness sake! They clearly aren’t going to show the exact way every scene plays out - absolutely no part of it suggests there isn’t a comeback coming. Even if there isn’t, it is perfectly possible for Bond to later shut her down with his skills, and besides, not including his witty responses gives the audience the whole “*gasp* she called him obsolete! What’s he going to do about that!? I must watch the film to find out!”. If this was a review of the entire film he could have more of a point, but as it is it’s a bit silly.


I'm not sure how read up you are on the production of this latest iteration of Bond, but with what we know from other sources, the video's criticisms are spot on. I can tell you this much, if you're goal is to make a successful Bond movie, the last thing you want to do is bring in a Feminist writer to work on it. Talk about not understanding the franchise and the target audience.

Rather than debate with you back and forth, how about we let history decide? I think this is going to be a dumpster fire and it will lose money [Get Woke, Go Broke]. If I am wrong, I will admit as much and if I'm right, I'll probably gloat a great deal! :)

Maybe I'm just overconfident coming off of the success of Joker and the abysmal failures of Terminator Woke Fate and Charlie's Angels. We shall see, but I don't think history will reflect kindly on your theory. Time will tell.
 
It's just a question whether this movie "bomb" or merely "underperform."
That's the only thing I'm interested in seeing unfold. I've been enjoying watching all these SJW films implode and punish those behind them with financial consequences. This is a recipe for disaster and I love it!
 
I'm not sure how read up you are on the production of this latest iteration of Bond, but with what we know from other sources, the video's criticisms are spot on. I can tell you this much, if you're goal is to make a successful Bond movie, the last thing you want to do is bring in a Feminist writer to work on it. Talk about not understanding the franchise and the target audience.
I've yet to watch the video myself (work potato with an overzealous firewall), but I definitely get the impression that the writer for the new movie has never seen a Brosnan- or Craig-era Bond film, particularly those that star Judy Dench as M.
 
I'm not sure how read up you are on the production of this latest iteration of Bond, but with what we know from other sources, the video's criticisms are spot on. I can tell you this much, if you're goal is to make a successful Bond movie, the last thing you want to do is bring in a Feminist writer to work on it. Talk about not understanding the franchise and the target audience.

Rather than debate with you back and forth, how about we let history decide? I think this is going to be a dumpster fire and it will lose money [Get Woke, Go Broke]. If I am wrong, I will admit as much and if I'm right, I'll probably gloat a great deal! :)

Maybe I'm just overconfident coming off of the success of Joker and the abysmal failures of Terminator Woke Fate and Charlie's Angels. We shall see, but I don't think history will reflect kindly on your theory. Time will tell.
Whether or not the film does well will have absolutely no bearing on the argument. At no point did I say I thought it would do well - actually I thought the trailer looked pretty meh, the tropes they seem to be using are pretty predictable and I explicitly stated how I think they aren’t going to pull off one of the things they are attempting very well. I don’t think this will be an especially good movie, and so it will come as no surprise to me if it underperforms.

What I disagree with is his assessments on how it won’t do well. It seemed to me that he completely missed what I saw as obvious and clichéd plot structures, and made a big deal out of something being missing from the trailer when you can almost be certain it will appear in the final film. And having done some research into the production of the film, I think his assessment of Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s involvement is wrong as well. She’s explicitly stated that she still thinks “Bond is completely relevant” and that he doesn’t have to change his view towards women; he can still carry on shagging them and seducing them and such. Instead, the feminist aspect will apply to the film as a whole; ie the female characters won’t just be two-dimensional pieces of eye candy but actually interesting, developed characters, something that will be good for everyone. In any case, it’s been made clear that her involvement doesn’t have anything to do with making it woke anyway - they’ve brought her in to spice up the dialogue, which given that her main program she’s written, Fleabag, is critically acclaimed and won six Emmies (including best writer), I think that’s pretty justified actually. So unless the issue is that people are unhappy with women being something other than pieces of meat for Bond to shag and/or save, which I highly doubt, I don’t really see what the problem is.

Honestly I still don’t think it will be that great and am not trying to argue as such, so your point about “seeing how well it does” is irrelevant. The bit that I’m disputing is the reasons for which it won’t be that good. It’s entirely possible that the movie won’t be much good because of the “woke” aspects, but based on what I’ve seen it seems far more likely that it will be down to poor execution of common tropes that will cause it to be bad. And in that case, you should be criticising the writing and plotting of the film instead of going on about the “woke” concepts the film is including like the video does.

In short, I agree with the video that the film will probably be pretty lacklustre, but disagree with his assessment of how and where the fault will lie.
 
Anyway this movie was greenlit 4 years ago so it's too late to stop it. I expect this movie to lose money. It's just a question whether this movie "bomb" or merely "underperform.".

I don't think it will bomb.
To "bomb" it would require a total failure in satisfying the expectations of Bond's fans.

But Bond is Bond and i don't buy an actor such as Daniel Craig would accept a role where his iconic character fails horribly and is humiliated by the female counterpart.
So i think there will be some (hopefully not too many) "woke-moments" in the movie, but i don't believe it will erase the typical Bond story.
I expect more easily a story where Bond by himself wouldn't succeed, and he will need the help of Bond-women, and they will be forced to work in team, both recognizing the value of the other agent.
 
Whether or not the film does well will have absolutely no bearing on the argument. At no point did I say I thought it would do well - actually I thought the trailer looked pretty meh, the tropes they seem to be using are pretty predictable and I explicitly stated how I think they aren’t going to pull off one of the things they are attempting very well. I don’t think this will be an especially good movie, and so it will come as no surprise to me if it underperforms.

What I disagree with is his assessments on how it won’t do well. It seemed to me that he completely missed what I saw as obvious and clichéd plot structures, and made a big deal out of something being missing from the trailer when you can almost be certain it will appear in the final film. And having done some research into the production of the film, I think his assessment of Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s involvement is wrong as well. She’s explicitly stated that she still thinks “Bond is completely relevant” and that he doesn’t have to change his view towards women; he can still carry on shagging them and seducing them and such. Instead, the feminist aspect will apply to the film as a whole; ie the female characters won’t just be two-dimensional pieces of eye candy but actually interesting, developed characters, something that will be good for everyone. In any case, it’s been made clear that her involvement doesn’t have anything to do with making it woke anyway - they’ve brought her in to spice up the dialogue, which given that her main program she’s written, Fleabag, is critically acclaimed and won six Emmies (including best writer), I think that’s pretty justified actually. So unless the issue is that people are unhappy with women being something other than pieces of meat for Bond to shag and/or save, which I highly doubt, I don’t really see what the problem is.

Honestly I still don’t think it will be that great and am not trying to argue as such, so your point about “seeing how well it does” is irrelevant. The bit that I’m disputing is the reasons for which it won’t be that good. It’s entirely possible that the movie won’t be much good because of the “woke” aspects, but based on what I’ve seen it seems far more likely that it will be down to poor execution of common tropes that will cause it to be bad. And in that case, you should be criticising the writing and plotting of the film instead of going on about the “woke” concepts the film is including like the video does.

In short, I agree with the video that the film will probably be pretty lacklustre, but disagree with his assessment of how and where the fault will lie.

They brought on a feminist writer to make the movie progressive. There are countless articles detailing how the movie aims to bring Bond in line with the #metoo era. The movie will be woke. All the information that has been released thus far has pointed in that direction.

Let me refine my prediction: The movie will be woke, there will be a backlash against it (it's already started) because it is woke and it will be a financial failure compared to its predecessors.

The problem is that the story/plot/characters always suffer when the goal is to create a film woke.
 
She’s explicitly stated that she still thinks “Bond is completely relevant” and that he doesn’t have to change his view towards women; he can still carry on shagging them and seducing them and such. Instead, the feminist aspect will apply to the film as a whole; ie the female characters won’t just be two-dimensional pieces of eye candy but actually interesting, developed characters, something that will be good for everyone.
I'd agree if this hasn't already been a thing since Goldeneye.
 
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