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AoS Kroxigor, Are they usefull?

Hu3pfka3s3 said:
I'm really surprised you all think they are that bad. I played a unit of 6 in many tournaments now and i just love them. In 99% of the time they make their points more than worth. I played them with Thunderquake + astrolith + skink starpriest , tbf all units that are autoinclude in a seraphon army. Now you get reroll hits, reroll wounds, -1 to Hit them, reroll safes and Double dmg on jaws and you can even buff them more. Just Charge them up against the next Horde you see and they will delete them. I played against LoN most of the time and this is the perfect unit to deal with Hordes of 40 sceletons, 60 zombies etc. They kill them once, twice, or for a third time. Doesnt matter, two moonhammers get like 20- 30 models in range. In the end you will have like 30+ wounds just from these two. Even units like daughters with a better safe and aftersafe or horde units from cities of sigmar are no problem. Kroxigors are literally our only unit to deal with hordes and can survive a counterattack. Razordons are random, rippers have no safe, not even rend. So your question was if they are useful? YES!
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the question is not whether all the buffs we have can make them good in 1 spasific job(most of our units aren't terable when we have given them every buff we have). that question is do they do the job better then the rest of what we have or as well as other units in there class. and the answer is no stegadons are a much better cheaper anti horde unit with sun throwers and kroxigors compare badly with(deep breath now) evocitors retributors tzaangor enlihjtend crypt flayers, brutes, ironguts, immotis guard, necropolis stalkers, and kurnoths they are about as good as rock gut trogoths and rat ogars but no one takes them either
 
Erta Wanderer said:
the question is not whether all the buffs we have can make them good in 1 spasific job(most of our units aren't terable when we have given them every buff we have). that question is do they do the job better then the rest of what we have or as well as other units in there class. and the answer is no stegadons are a much better cheaper anti horde unit with sun throwers and kroxigors compare badly with(deep breath now) evocitors retributors tzaangor enlihjtend crypt flayers, brutes, ironguts, immotis guard, necropolis stalkers, and kurnoths they are about as good as rock gut trogoths and rat ogars but no one takes them either
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Yes, it is exactly this question because they are better than everything in our book for this Job. Stegadons are not even cheaper and not better at all. And all these units you named are no competition for kroxigors. I have never seen these units taking out more than 80 whatever horde unit on their own in one turn, thats what i have seen at tournaments. Just a fact.
 
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
Yes, it is exactly this question because they are better than everything in our book for this Job. Stegadons are not even cheaper and not better at all. And all these units you named are no competition for kroxigors. I have never seen these units taking out more than 80 whatever horde unit on their own in one turn, thats what i have seen at tournaments. Just a fact.
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fine let us do a comparison 3 krox so 1 moon hammer 150 points (i was comparing the stegadon to the 6 you mentioned so 200 to 300 points) if you get them into combat with a unit of 40 skeletons while still wholly within 6" of the EotG (who does not want to be in melee so good luck) and 12" of the astrolith. you sed 20-30 attacks for 2 of them we will go all out 15 for one the average damage is 28-34 damage your right that is incredible if you pull it of very hard to do thanks to that 6" range but nasty against hordes with no save now lets put them into a horde that does have a save eternal guard(you mentioned cities) that makes the damage 10-18..... ok so not great now the skeletons again but without buffs 5-9 ... that's baaad so make double shur you don't charge to far.
now the stegadon 8"range so 40 attacks rerolling hits and wounds just like krox 34-40 well dang that's better right of the bat now a unit with a save 14-21 and without buffs 17-25 so wow he doesn't even need to be in a thunder quake to make it work how about that.
and yes those units are a competition doing more damage against every mach up that isn't a 40 man blob of no save models and whats more they don't need a 1000 point battalion to work. remember most armies don't have large groups of no save models it's death(ignoring OBR) and scaven and your krox would die if you killed those with the attacks after death ability. there is also gits but with all the -1s to hit the damage looks like 8-16 fully buffed thats not great either so you have 3 armies that krox work against LoN and they just stand right back up and kill you. night haughnt works fairly good hear. and skaven so 1 320 point block of monks and you die in the proses. oh i forgot ogars with gnoblars you can also kill them have fun
 
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The best thing about kroxigors is that they are actually worthless in our army, so you can find them 2nd hand at a low price... so you can pick a good deal and then you can hope they will be playable when our new battletome will arrive. It's a minimal risk for a potential big gain. ;)
 
Killer Angel said:
The best thing about kroxigors is that they are actually worthless in our army, so you can find them 2nd hand at a low price... so you can pick a good deal and then you can hope they will be playable when our new battletome will arrive. It's a minimal risk for a potential big gain. ;)
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i want them to be good sooo bad why are the best characters such a mediocre unit
 
When i want to evaluate if krox are good i usually compare them to minotaurs (same cost and role), minotaur are FAR better than krox. The same can be said with most 150-170 units from other armies.

If damage worked the same way as in 40k (haven't played WHFB so i don't know if it was the same) and didn't splash into infantry (3 damage killing 3x 1 wound models), i would think the moon hammer is really good. My oppinion might be skewed by the meta i'm playing in, but i never see hordes on the table.
 
Random Lizard said:
When i want to evaluate if krox are good i usually compare them to minotaurs (same cost and role), minotaur are FAR better than krox. The same can be said with most 150-170 units from other armies.

If damage worked the same way as in 40k (haven't played WHFB so i don't know if it was the same) and didn't splash into infantry (3 damage killing 3x 1 wound models), i would think the moon hammer is really good. My oppinion might be skewed by the meta i'm playing in, but i never see hordes on the table.
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well a few armies run hordes cities, DoK, gitz, all of death, us, skaven, khorn and fyreslayers but most of them arne't week to kroxs
 
Erta Wanderer said:
fine let us do a comparison 3 krox so 1 moon hammer 150 points (i was comparing the stegadon to the 6 you mentioned so 200 to 300 points) if you get them into combat with a unit of 40 skeletons while still wholly within 6" of the EotG (who does not want to be in melee so good luck) and 12" of the astrolith. you sed 20-30 attacks for 2 of them we will go all out 15 for one the average damage is 28-34 damage your right that is incredible if you pull it of very hard to do thanks to that 6" range but nasty against hordes with no save now lets put them into a horde that does have a save eternal guard(you mentioned cities) that makes the damage 10-18..... ok so not great now the skeletons again but without buffs 5-9 ... that's baaad so make double shur you don't charge to far.
now the stegadon 8"range so 40 attacks rerolling hits and wounds just like krox 34-40 well dang that's better right of the bat now a unit with a save 14-21 and without buffs 17-25 so wow he doesn't even need to be in a thunder quake to make it work how about that.
and yes those units are a competition doing more damage against every mach up that isn't a 40 man blob of no save models and whats more they don't need a 1000 point battalion to work. remember most armies don't have large groups of no save models it's death(ignoring OBR) and scaven and your krox would die if you killed those with the attacks after death ability. there is also gits but with all the -1s to hit the damage looks like 8-16 fully buffed thats not great either so you have 3 armies that krox work against LoN and they just stand right back up and kill you. night haughnt works fairly good hear. and skaven so 1 320 point block of monks and you die in the proses. oh i forgot ogars with gnoblars you can also kill them have fun
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You know Seraphon rules right? cause i dont even know what you want with the eotg in 6" to the kroxis but ok.
And of course they work best in the battalion, because Seraphon can only be competetive with battalions, not like other armies.
Like i said i played against several lists with all theses units, 120 monks, 120 daughters, even fireslayers with their hearthguard shit. The kroxis were always more than good and even survived monks after they attacked first. I mentioned to kill 40 Grimghast Reapers pre FaQ twice in a round (4++ if you dont know) so dont tell me they cant compete against all these units you mentioned. They are just better for this job, thats a fact you cant deny. Sure they lack single target dmg but i didnt say that they wouldnt. Of cource Evocators are then better but i cant see how they can kill hordes faster than Kroxis. It always has been rock paper scissors. For the Stegadon, it can only kill target within range not like Kroxigors. It has to charge first to get even close to 40models in range and cant even shoot in this round then. So again no, Kroxis again better for this Job. Even rippers are better to kill single targets, elite units than these hordes.
I saw all these examples in practice at tournaments. Now you can move on with your theory cafting.
I dont wanna say you are not right in some points, Kroxis have their weaknesses but they are Top Tier against every horde.
 
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
Like i said i played against several lists with all theses units, 120 monks, 120 daughters, even fireslayers with their hearthguard shit. The kroxis were always more than good and even survived monks after they attacked first.
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You have Kroxigor Survive 40 Plaguemonks? That shouldn't happen often, even with all the buffs.
 
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
You know Seraphon rules right? cause i dont even know what you want with the eotg in 6" to the kroxis but ok.
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yes i do i read the book and was a bit off the reroll wounds/saves/hits/runns only works when within 8" of the EotG soooo ya i was of by 2"

Hu3pfka3s3 said:
And of course they work best in the battalion, because Seraphon can only be competetive with battalions, not like other armies.
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AND THATS BAD you can't just play krox you have to take them in very expensive battalion that mostly wants to stay at range.
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
Like i said i played against several lists with all theses units, 120 monks, 120 daughters, even fireslayers with their hearthguard shit. The kroxis were always more than good and even survived monks after they attacked first.
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then you are the single most lucky player i have ever met as 40 monks should have ripped them in half twice over even with rerolable saves. and i flat out don't beleave you when you say they killed fyreslayers just fine. as they would do 3-7 damage with buffs thats 2 and a half hearth guard 5 if you run 6 krox
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
I mentioned to kill 40 Grimghast Reapers pre FaQ twice in a round (4++ if you dont know)
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with 6 krox? thats not posible the max output on them would be 92 damage provided the2 moon hammers hit 30 guys you would have to not fail any hit or wound rolls (thats a 1 in 140596189 chance) and they would have to fail all of there saves (a 1 in 142108547152020 chance) for you to kill 80 of them.so a one in 20194839173658000000000000000 chance. without counting after saves my calculator broke when i tried to add those
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
so dont tell me they cant compete against all these units you mentioned.
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your going to have to provide evedence for that. all of the guys i mentioned just kill more or more survivable and all that without support which as i demonstrated above leaves krox a pathetic mes even with the perfect target
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
They are just better for this job, thats a fact you cant deny. Sure they lack single target dmg but i didnt say that they wouldnt.
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and thats a problem most units they will be fighting arn't 40 man units with a 6 to save thay have a terable time against any thing els there one job is very nerow
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
Of cource Evocators are then better but i cant see how they can kill hordes faster than Kroxis. It always has been rock paper scissors. For the Stegadon, it can only kill target within range not like Kroxigors. It has to charge first to get even close to 40models in range and cant even shoot in this round then. So again no, Kroxis again better for this Job.
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no you just teleport in and move 1d6 you hit a tone of them turn 1 and don't have to wory about the counter punch and i was showing them at peak efficiency same as krox who have troble staying in buff range and getting models into combat they are on 50mm it's hard to get a lot of them in combat.
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
I saw all these examples in practice at tournaments. Now you can move on with your theory cafting.
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this isn't theory crafting it's math wich is a lot more substantial then anecdotal evidence shur you can roll very very high but it wont happen often
 
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Erta Wanderer said:
this soo much this monks do 33-44 damage against krox when they reroll saves
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Yep, my other tournament army is Skaven. I started playing them after I won 3 20+ player RTTS because I couldn't get any more ITC rank points out of Seraphon from them. Fyreslayers are the only thing I have seen that can take the hit of charging Plaguemonks and not be wiped.
 
LizardWizard said:
Yep, my other tournament army is Skaven. I started playing them after I won 3 20+ player RTTS because I couldn't any more ITC rank points out of Seraphon for them. Fyreslayers are the only thing I have seen that can take the hit of charging Plaguemonks and not be wiped.
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and this guy says krox do well against hearth guard even in thunder quake that's a stretch or am i missing something
 
Erta Wanderer said:
and this guy says krox do well against hearth guard even in thunder quake that's a stretch or am i missing something
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I mean, if the opponent isn't running a unit or 30x Polearms with all the buffs then he is doing it wrong. And I think the mortal wounds alone would kill half or more of the 6x Krox.
 
LizardWizard said:
I mean, if the opponent isn't running a unit or 30x Polearms with all the buffs then he is doing it wrong. And I think the mortal wounds along would kill half or more of the Krox.
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well with a 10 man front line 2 ranks deep thats 40 attacks so about 7 6s and 14 mortals so 3 and a half dead krox
 
Hu3pfka3s3 said:
You know Seraphon rules right? cause i dont even know what you want with the eotg in 6" to the kroxis but ok.
And of course they work best in the battalion, because Seraphon can only be competetive with battalions, not like other armies.
Like i said i played against several lists with all theses units, 120 monks, 120 daughters, even fireslayers with their hearthguard shit. The kroxis were always more than good and even survived monks after they attacked first. I mentioned to kill 40 Grimghast Reapers pre FaQ twice in a round (4++ if you dont know) so dont tell me they cant compete against all these units you mentioned. They are just better for this job, thats a fact you cant deny. Sure they lack single target dmg but i didnt say that they wouldnt. Of cource Evocators are then better but i cant see how they can kill hordes faster than Kroxis. It always has been rock paper scissors. For the Stegadon, it can only kill target within range not like Kroxigors. It has to charge first to get even close to 40models in range and cant even shoot in this round then. So again no, Kroxis again better for this Job. Even rippers are better to kill single targets, elite units than these hordes.
I saw all these examples in practice at tournaments. Now you can move on with your theory cafting.
I dont wanna say you are not right in some points, Kroxis have their weaknesses but they are Top Tier against every horde.
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My sweet summer child, I believe you just argued with ERTA... who is basically writing a better than official fan made battletome….. you might as well try to convince Lizardwizard of those numbers...

in short, the BS flag has been thrown
 
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