Superhero versus series... choose the winners!

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I know this is purely anecdotal.

Indeed.

I agree with this. Yep, Superman could have solved End game pretty quickly. Or even infinity war. He would probably even be able to defeat Captain Marvel in most situations. But the question isn't which super hero is the most powerful. It was who would win in a fight. Superman isn't immune to magic. It is one of the very few things that can harm him. So yeah, Dr. Strange should be able to defeat him for all the previously mentioned reasons. Command over the physical universal does little in a fight against someone who can turn the fight incorporeal.

You're missing the point. If Strange is so powerful, why was he rather ineffective in Infinity War and Endgame? Based on everything we were shown, Doctor Strange's feats were far less impressive than Superman.

Ebon Maw only had power over the physical universe, yet Doctor Strange's ability to turn the fight incorporeal did nothing to protect him from Ebon Maw. If Ebon Maw could beat him so easily, Superman would have no problem.


Lightspeed movement is the game changer. Doctor Strange wouldn't even be able to enter another dimension before he was dead. I don't think people realize how fast light travels, they know it is fast, but the number is so astronomical that it is difficult for the human mind to comprehend.

Let's say that Superman and Doctor Strange are separated by 100 meters. Traveling at lightspeed it takes Superman only 0.0000003 seconds to reach him. Perhaps you're saying that is not a fair scenario because they are too close to one another, let's try 1000 kilometers... Superman covers that in 0.003 seconds. What about 10,000 km?... 0.03 seconds.

Even at huge distances the time it takes Superman to reach Strange and end him is significantly less than human reaction time (let alone the time it takes to cast a spell). The point is Strange is dead before he can even register that the contest has begun. And before you state that Strange can rely on the Eye of Agamotto to circumvent the speed differential, there are two problems:

1. Strange doesn't always have the time stone. If we cherry pick him to have his greatest power, it is equally fair to cherry pick Superman at his most powerful (Superman Prime / One Million)
2. Even with the time stone, Dr. Strange was pawned by Ebon Maw who was moving things at a rate FAR below the speeds that Superman is capable of.

Right, and because Dr. Strange has been shown to be vulnerable to punches there is no grantee that he is vulnerable to Supermans?

Not sure how you want me to respond to this one.

In short...
Doctor Strange is a human... humans are weak & squishy... and vulnerable to even low level forces.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Fair enough,but i'd imagine a lot of that is made quite intuitive and sometimes, at least in the Superman movie, if I recall correctly, he didn't have to do anything but touch something and then it worked, so he likely didn't have to know how it actually worked.
To which extend has he worked with kryptonian technology, I'm curious because I haven't seen it so you could be correct?

The information I was referring to comes from the DC animated movies (and shows), not the recent Superman live action films. It's been a long time since I watched some of them so I can't quite give you an exact movie or show episode to look up. Any of the Superman or Justice League ones are fair game.

Some of the technology I can remember are forms of dimensional tech, space ships, AI, solar suits, healing tech and advanced weaponry. There is likely a lot more in the comics, but I can't speak on that since I don't really engage in comics very much.


If you haven't watched the DC animated movies, I'd highly recommend them. They are good fun.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Some good debates were had. Thanks to all that participated (no matter which side we all fell on). @LizardWizard @ASSASSIN_NR_1 @Aginor @Killer Angel @Kilvakar

Without further ado, the results.

Superman 5 - Doctor Strange 1

 

[Killer Angel]

Some good debates were had. Thanks to all that participated (no matter which side we all fell on).

since it's so fun, i'd say we can go on!

You're missing the point. If Strange is so powerful, why was he rather ineffective in Infinity War and Endgame?

Consensus is that they HEAVILY toned down his power level.
in Civil War (the comic) is clearly stated what is the power of Strange: this is the dialogue when the real war was going to start:




a war to Death between Iron Man, various gods, all the Earth's superheroes… those 2 beings look at it as if it were a simple quarrel between spoiled children.
I gave my vote to Superman, but this is the power level of Strange.

 

[LizardWizard]

Ebon Maw only had power over the physical universe, yet Doctor Strange's ability to turn the fight incorporeal did nothing to protect him from Ebon Maw. If Ebon Maw could beat him so easily, Superman would have no problem.

This isn't something that the transitive property applies to. Ebonmaw is another powerful Magician. The both have access to the astral planes. So they would provide no protection for Dr. Strange.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

You do know strange has beaten things much stronger the super man right?

 

[Erta Wanderer]

what version of strange are we working with and what version of superman/
are they bloodlusted?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

You do know strange has beaten things much stronger the super man right?

And Superman has defeated things much stronger than Strange.

what version of strange are we working with and what version of superman/
are they bloodlusted?

Yes in regards to bloodlusted. Fight to the death... nothing else matters.


The version of each character is very important. If we cherry pick in favor of either, we can get either of them to win. So what do we have to choose from...

• "standard" power set (hard to define)
  
• movie versions
• absolute peak power

The standard power set is hard to define, because each character will vary wildly in terms of power level depending on the story, author, context, etc. This would be the fairest measure if we could define it, but we'll probably never agree on what sources to count and what sources to disregard.

When looking at the movie versions, we have a bit more of a concrete rule set, but even then we run into the problem of: which movies? Current? Older films? Animated? Who determines which should take precedence? If all are taken into account, how do we handle discrepancies in ability or power level? If we look at the MCU, Doctor Strange does not appear nearly so impressive as Superman in the god awful Justice League movie. However, if we use other movies as a bench mark that might change.

At peak power levels, we get into Superman Prime / One Million, who is essentially a god.


What about I throw a wild card at you guys. Real world. The Superman IP is worth much more than the Doctor Strange IP. If any company were to acquire both and had to eliminate one (gun to the head type scenario), Superman will prove more powerful via capitalism!! As stupid as this scenario is... it is the only concrete one!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

In the end, there is no definitive right or wrong, because it is all fictional work from two separately owned franchises. They are both written by a wide range of different authors. They exist in different universes. They follow different rules.

We can all have our opinions on it (and we do), but ultimately we are left with...
this

 

[Erta Wanderer]

And Superman has defeated things much stronger than Strange.


Yes in regards to bloodlusted. Fight to the death... nothing else matters.


The version of each character is very important. If we cherry pick in favor of either, we can get either of them to win. So what do we have to choose from...

• "standard" power set (hard to define)
  
• movie versions
• absolute peak power

The standard power set is hard to define, because each character will vary wildly in terms of power level depending on the story, author, context, etc. This would be the fairest measure if we could define it, but we'll probably never agree on what sources to count and what sources to disregard.

When looking at the movie versions, we have a bit more of a concrete rule set, but even then we run into the problem of: which movies? Current? Older films? Animated? Who determines which should take precedence? If all are taken into account, how do we handle discrepancies in ability or power level? If we look at the MCU, Doctor Strange does not appear nearly so impressive as Superman in the god awful Justice League movie. However, if we use other movies as a bench mark that might change.

At peak power levels, we get into Superman Prime / One Million, who is essentially a god.


What about I throw a wild card at you guys. Real world. The Superman IP is worth much more than the Doctor Strange IP. If any company were to acquire both and had to eliminate one (gun to the head type scenario), Superman will prove more powerful via capitalism!! As stupid as this scenario is... it is the only concrete one!

nice if we arn't counting movie strange we just use the comic one he has been very consistant over the years it's superman that gives us problems he has
Original
Pre-Crisis
Post-Crisis
Post-Flashpoint
Earth One
All Star

Kingdom Come
One Million
Red Son
Strange Visitor
Donnerverse
DCAU
the strongest being one million the next is post crisis which is the one most use for comparison as it is the most consistent and the most resent

 

[Erta Wanderer]

if it was up to me and we are ignoring the movies then id vote strange he is just as fast as superman(being comparable to mephisto who can cros galaxies in minutes) the both have equal lvls of durability superman having taken black holes to the face and strange being able to instantly regenerate from being disintegrated and spread across multiple dementions. strange can definitely hit harder he can destroy planets with a thought can channel the gods of chaos and order (the guys who make and destroy universes) and can just rip peoples soles out of them he is also capable of outright countering the infinity gauntlet so he is arguably omnipotent in the same way the glove is. he is also a lot more experienced in fighting then superman having a 5000 year war under his belt so as long as blood lust is on i think strange has got this one

 

[LizardWizard]

if it was up to me and we are ignoring the movies then id vote strange he is just as fast as superman(being comparable to mephisto who can cros galaxies in minutes) the both have equal lvls of durability superman having taken black holes to the face and strange being able to instantly regenerate from being disintegrated and spread across multiple dementions. strange can definitely hit harder he can destroy planets with a thought can channel the gods of chaos and order (the guys who make and destroy universes) and can just rip peoples soles out of them he is also capable of outright countering the infinity gauntlet so he is arguably omnipotent in the same way the glove is. he is also a lot more experienced in fighting then superman having a 5000 year war under his belt so as long as blood lust is on i think strange has got this one

Agreed. I think Superman Prime is the only superman that would have a chance.

Also, Dr. Strange isn't necessarily fast. As he doesn't travel, he arrives

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Agreed. I think Superman Prime is the only superman that would have a chance.

Also, Dr. Strange isn't necessarily fast. As he doesn't travel, he arrives

yes he can teleport but he also just moves at ridiculous lvls like in his fight with Baron Mordo when he crosses the galaxy in mere seconds so it's both. and strange fights gods all the time and his mane 3 enemies kill gods so i think even prime superman would have a hard time of it.