TRIGGER WARNING #1 - Dave Chappelle: Sticks and Stones

[NIGHTBRINGER]

What the hell.

He is right with many things he says, but he is horribly wrong with others.

To be honest, I am in the same boat as you; I agree with some of the things they say but disagree with some of their points as well.

First: humor is NOT a male property. That's laughable and wrong, and easy to disprove. Comedy is not inherently masculine.

I partially agree. Comedy is not inherently masculine as you say, but typically men are much funnier than women. The key word is "typically", since there are many funny women out there as well. Anecdotally, most of the funniest people I have come into contact with in my life have been men (and I've talked to a few women about the subject and they agree). More objectively, there are significantly more successful male comedians than female ones, and almost all of the top tier comedians are male.

There is truth to the fact that having a good sense of humor can help men attract women. The reverse is not nearly as applicable. A good sense of humor is one pathway for men to rise up in social standing (just like good looks, wealth, etc.). You often hear women saying that one things they look for in a man is a good sense of humor. As such, boys/men hone this skill to a much finer degree than women do (on average).

But yes, I agree that humor itself is not inherently male. A female perspective can be humorous as well.

Second: "The left does not have a sense of humor" is just wrong. The extreme left doesn't. Because extremists. Extremists have very limited humor. I can easily name dozens of left wing comedians that are hilarious, and humour that originates in left wing world views.
So what they do here again is mixing up left wing and left wing extremists in the same way left wing extremists mix up conservatives with Nazis.

Once again, I agree with you mostly. The left definitely has some funny individuals. Jon Stewart and Bill Maher are prime examples. There are plenty of examples in Hollywood as well. The list can go on and on.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the left is becoming less funny as it shifts more and more to the extreme. The extremes of either left or the right are not funny. I just think the left is shifting a little bit further than the right is at the moment. I think the point to make is that all this political correctness is stifling comedy.

Humor and evil is associated, but... that's simplifying too much. The main source of humor isn't "evil", it is subversion of expectations. We don't laugh about the guy in the suit falling into the mud because it is evil. We laugh because the suit is connected to cleanliness in our brains, and mud is not clean.

I think it is a combination of both (a bit of evil and a subversion of expectations). Something funny can arise from one, the other or a combination of the two.

For instance, "fail army" type videos have more of an "evil" aspect to them. We all know how they are going to end, but they are funny regardless. There is no real subversion of expectations in that case.

 

[Scalenex]

There is truth to the fact that having a good sense of humor can help men attract women. The reverse is not nearly as applicable. A good sense of humor is one pathway for men to rise up in social standing (just like good looks, wealth, etc.). You often hear women saying that one things they look for in a man is a good sense of humor. As such, boys/men hone this skill to a much finer degree than women do (on average).

You hint on why there are more male comedians. Humor stems from need.

I will add to the pot that humor is a good way for a man (or boy) to diffuse a tense situation with a bully. I used that technique. Even without courtship involved, it is handy to be charming. Humor is almost the only way that men and boys are allowed to be charming. Women and girls have more options to be charming. They can also use tears as a shield. A crying girl wins sympathy from acquaintances and strangers, a crying boy receives only derision.

The funniest women I know are highly intelligent introverts. Shy women can expect some derision. In this case humor is a weapon and a shield to win social approval with carefully crafted jokes. Going back to my favorite comedian, Maria Bamford, Maria also adopts alternate personas to tell her jokes. In a way she applies "Fake it till you make it" to being an extrovert.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

You hint on why there are more male comedians. Humor stems from need.

Necessity is the mother of all invention.

I will add to the pot that humor is a good way for a man (or boy) to diffuse a tense situation with a bully. I used that technique. Even without courtship involved, it is handy to be charming. Humor is almost the only way that men and boys are allowed to be charming. Women and girls have more options to be charming. They can also use tears as a shield. A crying girl wins sympathy from acquaintances and strangers, a crying boy receives only derision.

That's a good point.

 

[Aginor]

Also:
Many women have a different sense of humor than men, often one that men don't really understand.
Maybe men's humor is (on average) more simple and thus more accessible for both genders, which would explain that the majority of successful comedians are men.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Maybe men's humor is (on average) more simple and thus more accessible for both genders, which would explain that the majority of successful comedians are men.

How so? Where are you getting that men's humor is more simplistic? I think there is an even range across the board.

 

[Aginor]

How so? Where are you getting that men's humor is more simplistic? I think there is an even range across the board.

I really don't know, it just might be. One possible explanation for good accessibility is always simplicity.
It might be something else, most likely a combination of factors.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I really don't know, it just might be. One possible explanation for good accessibility is always simplicity.
It might be something else, most likely a combination of factors.

Fair enough. I think it is pretty hard to pin down because it is likely varies from person to person. Comedy can be pretty free flowing.




As for the SJW "attack" on Chappelle, it seems to have had the Streisand Effect. I know that had the SJWs not been so upset, I likely would have never have watched it (because I rarely watch comedy specials). However, once I saw how much it pissed them off, it became a must watch. Then Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER followed suit, and now we even have a dedicated thread discussing it. Great free publicity.

#karma

 

[Scalenex]

Also:
Many women have a different sense of humor than men, often one that men don't really understand.
Maybe men's humor is (on average) more simple and thus more accessible for both genders, which would explain that the majority of successful comedians are men.

I really don't know, it just might be. One possible explanation for good accessibility is always simplicity.
It might be something else, most likely a combination of factors.

I do think men and women have different senses of humor. I don't believe men are more simplistic in humor.

What is complex humor? I think about the movie Clue where there is a giant mess of tangled and inept intrigues and Hot Fuzz (my all time favorite movie) with a lot of nuance and a great set up. As far as I can tell, both movies appeal to men and women equally.

Nuanced parody is fairly complex humor, but most nuanced parody that I enjoy is based off masculine stories. I really like superhero stories so I like superhero parodies like The Awesomes, the Tick, the Society of Virtue, and Mystery Men. That's just what I'm aware of more. I guess The Princess Bride is an affectionate parody of romantic comedy swashbuckler movies. I find this one hilarious as well. I think the best affectionate parody of all time however is Galaxy Quest and I am not a crazy Star Trek fan, only a moderate Star Trek fan.

I only have annecdotal evidence to back this up, but I think boys and men like gross out humor more and girls and women laugh at slapstick more.

I believe over the last ten years I have cracked much of the code for how men and women think differently but I'm farther behind on humor than other aspects of human nature. Evolutionary pyschology helps why boys and girls have different social dynamics. It explains why boys and girls learn differently why they play differently why they gravitate towards different interests. All sorts of things.

The reason I'm not sure about humor is that I'm not sure how humor helped our primtive ancestors survive. If humor was purely developed as a means of defusing a violent situation, than according to evolution psychology, women should be much funnier than men.

I can only assume that men and women basically have the same innate sense of humor (both men and women are good at laughing at themselves and they are good at laughing at the other in my opinion) and that perceived differences are the result of modern culture. Women don't like fart jokes as much as men because women are taught to be lady like.

Going back to the simple versus complex humor. I believe older people like more complex humor than younger people but that is fairly gender neutral. Young people tend to like fart jokes and slap stick more than older people.

Now that I think about it, maybe I do have some idea how men and women construct humor differerent. Maria Bamford is my favorite female comedian (and my favorite comedian period) but it's not so much her jokes as the way she presents jokes. She is brilliant with voices and faces. In a way Maria Bamford is as much a comedic actress as she is a stand up comic.

When television was young, many of the most classic comedies were led by a charismatic actress where the male lead is playing second fiddle. I Love Lucy, Bewitched, and I Dream of Genie come to mind. While stand up comics, especially successful ones is largely male dominated, comedic actors and actresses are more proportionally representational (though the writers were mostly male).

If I can make a sweeping generalization (which is politically incorrect). Female comedy is based more on delivery and male comedy is based more on the joke itself. I can relay a joke from one of my favorite male comics and salvage 80-90% of the comedic punch. If I try to relay a Maria Bamford joke it is lost in translation because I don't have her delivery skill.

There are some male comedic actors that have funny delivery like Jack Black and Jim Carrey. I'm sure there are some brilliant mostly invisible female joke writers too. Season 3 of Rick and Morty brought on a lot of female writers onto the team and I think season 3 is a fine season. I disagree with anyone who thinks season 3 lost its edge. If it has lost its edge, it's because the series is getting stale not because Summer and Beth have a bigger role in the show now.

 

[Aginor]

I think that is a hard nut to crack, because variance within a group often seems to be bigger than between the groups.
Bluntly said: men and women with different backgrounds (from different cultures, nationalities, education and so on) differ widely in their humor. Probably more than the difference between sexes within groups of equal parameters.

and that perceived differences are the result of modern culture. Women don't like fart jokes as much as men because women are taught to be lady like.

I think this is a big factor. Based on anecdotal evidence women can be as much perverted and disgusting in their jokes as men. They usually just don't tell the jokes when men are near. That's part of their upbringing.

 

[Scalenex]

Based on anecdotal evidence women can be as much perverted and disgusting in their jokes as men. They usually just don't tell the jokes when men are near. That's part of their upbringing.

That goes into another difference of outcome. Most comedians have a repetroire of jokes that nearly always go well, some jokes that sometimes go well, and some new stuff. Televised comedy specials showcase their A-material. If you watch a famous comedian in real life with no camera running, any famous comedian, they will usually start with their A material and end with their A materia and test out their new stuff in the middle.

Testing new jokes is a risk. Telling gross jokes in "inappropriate" company is a risk. Either from biologically differences or sociological constructs, men take more risks. Comedy requires risk. That's why more men have a profession in comedy and men have a reputation for being funnier than women.

 

[Aginor]

Either from biologically differences or sociological constructs, men take more risks.

That's a very good point that I believe is true. It also explains a lot of other common behaviours.

 

[Warden]

So I do like Dave Chapelle, particularily this sketch on Prince and Charlie Murphy:

"never judge a book by its cover"

 

[Scalenex]

I saw an entertainment news video saying that said that not only is Dave Chappelle's new special the most watched thing on Netflix but it's also stimualted interest in similar comedians like Bill Burr.

I also saw some analysis videos covering how Disney refuses to cross certain lines regarding controversy and adult themes.

This might be the only way that Netflix can compete with Disney's streaming service, especially if they package their services with Hulu (or they buy Hulu outright). Netflix could become the "adult" streaming service and Disney can be the "kid friendly" streaming service.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I saw an entertainment news video saying that said that not only is Dave Chappelle's new special the most watched thing on Netflix but it's also stimualted interest in similar comedians like Bill Burr.

Hahaha... it's the opposite of Get Woke, Go Broke! I think we need a slogan for that.


This is such great news, I'm always happy when normal people strike back against the crazy SJWs!!!

I also saw some analysis videos covering how Disney refuses to cross certain lines regarding controversy and adult themes.

This might be the only way that Netflix can compete with Disney's streaming service, especially if they package their services with Hulu (or they buy Hulu outright). Netflix could become the "adult" streaming service and Disney can be the "kid friendly" streaming service.

Interesting. I certainly hope that Netflix sticks around, having a complete Disney monopoly would make for a pretty crappy situation. I already think that Disney owns way too much.

 

[Aginor]

I saw an entertainment news video saying that said that not only is Dave Chappelle's new special the most watched thing on Netflix but it's also stimualted interest in similar comedians like Bill Burr.

I also saw some analysis videos covering how Disney refuses to cross certain lines regarding controversy and adult themes.

This might be the only way that Netflix can compete with Disney's streaming service, especially if they package their services with Hulu (or they buy Hulu outright). Netflix could become the "adult" streaming service and Disney can be the "kid friendly" streaming service.

Wasn't Bill Burr the guy who just insulted the audience in Philly for ten minutes or so in... 2008 I think?

Not my kind of humor but he has some OK stuff.

 

[Scalenex]

Hahaha... it's the opposite of Get Woke, Go Broke! I think we need a slogan for that.

The problem is Neflix may be going broke regardless. Back when streaming TV was new Netflix got the rights to stream old shows for next to nothing because the studios that owned the intellectual property were making nothing and figure a pittance was better than nothing. Now that more media producers want to get into the streaming fun themselves, Netflix found themselves in the horrible economic situation where their suppliers became their competitors.

They are under contract to give Chappelle a lot of money. Netflix spends a lot of money to get exclusive programming, more than they are currently getting from subscribers. Netflix has been making up this cash shortfall by selling stock. For the stockholders to see a return on their investment, Netflix has to increase their subscriber base and increase their subscription prices. That's a tall order.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

The problem is Neflix may be going broke regardless. Back when streaming TV was new Netflix got the rights to stream old shows for next to nothing because the studios that owned the intellectual property were making nothing and figure a pittance was better than nothing. Now that more media producers want to get into the streaming fun themselves, Netflix found themselves in the horrible economic situation where their suppliers became their competitors.

They are under contract to give Chappelle a lot of money. Netflix spends a lot of money to get exclusive programming, more than they are currently getting from subscribers. Netflix has been making up this cash shortfall by selling stock. For the stockholders to see a return on their investment, Netflix has to increase their subscriber base and increase their subscription prices. That's a tall order.

Ouch, that is quite the predicament. And what is your take on all these new streaming services popping up? How do you think they will fair with all the competition floating about? Seems like each one will have only a fairly limited selection compared to the Netflix of old who collected and offered their subscribers content from all the different companies.

 

[Aginor]

That's my main concern, too.
I have Amazon Prime and I might get another account if it isn't too expensive (Netflix is IMO). But more than one? Nope. And everyone seems to start their own streaming service these days.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

not only is Dave Chappelle's new special the most watched thing on Netflix but it's also stimualted interest in similar comedians like Bill Burr.

Funny you should mention that, I followed the same path...

It was hilarious.

 

[ravagekitteh]

I haven’t watched that particular special so I can’t comment about it, but I did find this interesting article which I think is worth a read:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidi...er-tiger-exposes-the-myth-of-outrage-culture/