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The Random Thread of Random Randomness

In addition to that:
Being angry about a movie not following "the comic canon" is weird to begin with.
The comic series in itself has reimagined all the stories and characters, like, a dozen times.
Parts of what makes the MCU and the X-Men movies good is that they did that exact thing: Reimagine everything new and (mostly) consistent in itself instead of forcing some comic content in them.
The timeline of the Marvel comics is a mess. No need to force a movie audience into that. The result would be a movie that only hardcore Marvel comic fans can understand at all.

About the comic fan in the video:
I like how he is a chill dude and not the usual "everything is ruined forever", voicing his opinion in a mannered way, but I think he might view the MCU a bit too much from the comic perspective.
Anyway, that's a valid point of view.

However about that statement he criticizes: I think he over-interpreted it a bit. I mean: isn't that what all movie producers/directors do?
Grab a license, imagine a story of their liking, containing whatever message they like, and then choose people to work with who share that vision?
To me that's nothing to worry about.
Of course the result can be good or bad, but that's not fundamentally different from any other movie.
 
LizardWizard said:
Why shouldn't we expect people to use the platforms they are given to speak the messages they want heard.
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Because people aren't buying those comic books! :cool:

Bottom line, you must produce the content that your consumer base wants. Story must trump political propaganda.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Because people aren't buying those comic books! :cool:

Bottom line, you must produce the content that your consumer base wants. Story must trump political propaganda.
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People are buying it though. Comic book sales have been sliding for the last 20 years. The MCU has helped to prop up Marvel Comics sales for almost a decade. The movie franchise has brought in 100's of millions in tickets sales, and has been progressive since its inception. Ironman I is literally about an industrialist learning he has been unjustly enabling wars.
 
LizardWizard said:
People are buying it though.
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Not enough of them. I didn't mean literally zero people.

LizardWizard said:
The MCU has helped to prop up Marvel Comics sales for almost a decade.
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The ultra woke Captain Marvel comic has been cancelled and relaunched somewhere in the vicinity of 7 times in the last decade.

LizardWizard said:
The movie franchise has brought in 100's of millions in tickets sales, and has been progressive since its inception.
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Interesting how nobody really had an issue with it until the arrival of Captain Marvel. Don't conflate moral messages embedded within great story telling with political propaganda at the expense of story telling!




Time will prove me wise.
 
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NIGHTBRINGER said:
Interesting how nobody really had an issue with it until the arrival of Captain Marvel. Don't conflate moral messages in-bedded within great story telling with political propaganda at the expense of story telling!
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It honestly seems like the same content producers who made the same plugs during Gamergate are the ones complaining about the MCU.

Captain Marvel was as conceptually solid a Marvel movie as any of the nonsense within super heroes. Ant-man, The Incredible Hulk, & Doctor Strange all have low conceptual integrity. I don't see why Captain Marvel having the same conceptual issues would be a result of feminism vs poor writing. What parts of the movie are political propaganda?
 
LizardWizard said:
It honestly seems like the same content producers who made the same plugs during Gamergate are the ones complaining about the MCU.

Captain Marvel was as conceptually solid a Marvel movie as any of the nonsense within super heroes. Ant-man, The Incredible Hulk, & Doctor Strange all have low conceptual integrity. I don't see why Captain Marvel having the same conceptual issues would be a result of feminism vs poor writing. What parts of the movie are political propaganda?
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The only thing that really comes to mind was Brie Larsen's commentary leading up to Captain Marvel's release. Nearly ever other actor who portrayed a beloved Marvel character in the MCU has gone on record to say that it's an honour to bring that character to the big screen for the first time. We didn't get this from Larsen, who instead made a big statement about representing women and girls on the big screen as if she was the first actress to play a Marvel character.

As I haven't seen the movie beyond one action scene, I don't know how much this has any bearing on the actual quality of the movie.

As for the response to said commentary, one argument I remember seen bandied about was regarding how exceptional superheros are as characters by default, inferring that the claim of Captain Marvel representing women and girls on the big screen is laughable at best.
 
LizardWizard said:
Captain Marvel was as conceptually solid a Marvel movie as any of the nonsense within super heroes. Ant-man, The Incredible Hulk, & Doctor Strange all have low conceptual integrity.
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LizardWizard said:
I don't see why Captain Marvel having the same conceptual issues would be a result of feminism vs poor writing. What parts of the movie are political propaganda?
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captain-marvel-gif-6.gif




 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
the feminist avengers assemble scene in Endgame (obviously this isn't the CM movie, but it continued into this one)
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I actually had no issue with that one. The fact that they all came to Peter Parker's aid at the same time was quite the contrivance of course, but the fridge logic there is easily overlooked if all you're hoping to get out of the movie is a throw-down spectacle with a lot of action and special effects.

On a side note, the one character in that roster that I absolutely had no problem with was Pepper Potts in her Rescue armour.
 
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ChapterAquila92 said:
I actually had no issue with that one. The fact that they all came to Peter Parker's aid at the same time was quite the contrivance of course, but the fridge logic there is easily overlooked if all you're hoping to get out of the movie is a throw-down spectacle with a lot of action and special effects.
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I thought it was extremely cringy and immersion breaking. It is there for one reason and one reason alone... political pandering; and the movie suffers for it.
 
If I remember correctly the Rotten Tomatoes Scandal was because a bunch of angry guys down voted the movie before it had any screenings and RT cleared the votes that were cast before its showings.

I feels as though you are conflating feminism with propaganda. Just because something has female empowerment doesn't make it propaganda. Why should fan service directed at the female side of audience be unallowable while ass shots of Scarlet Johannsen are expected?
 
LizardWizard said:
If I remember correctly the Rotten Tomatoes Scandal was because a bunch of angry guys down voted the movie before it had any screenings and RT cleared the votes that were cast before its showings.
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You remember incorrectly good sir. That was the story that the leftist media was trying to spin, but like usual, they tweak the facts a bit to fit their narrative. Prior to the movie's release, fans could not actually rate the film. However, there was the option to vote on whether you were interested in seeing the film or if you were not interested in seeing the film. I think that seems like a pretty fair and reasonable thing to vote on prior to a movie's release. The results from this vote were displayed, but were not used in the calculation of the audience rating score upon the film's release. Captain Marvel wasn't fairing too well so the entire site was changed to protect it.

By all means, look it up if you don't believe me!

LizardWizard said:
I feels as though you are conflating feminism with propaganda.
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It's feminist SJW propaganda. That is my entire point.

LizardWizard said:
Just because something has female empowerment doesn't make it propaganda.
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Correct. Sarah Connor from T2 and Ellen Ripley from Aliens are classic examples of strong female characters that aren't feminist propaganda. If you want more recent examples, we have Alita or Wonder Woman.

LizardWizard said:
Why should fan service directed at the female side of audience be unallowable while ass shots of Scarlet Johannsen are expected?
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I don't think I have to give everyone a lecture on how sex sells. That works in both directions by the way. That's why movie and tv show casts are made up of predominantly beautiful people.
:cool:



 
I guess if you view feminism as philosophically illegitimated then there is no productive discussion to be had about its presence in any form of media. Not all media is made for all audiences. It has always been a theme within in the Marvel wheelhouse and I doubt it is going to fade.
 
LizardWizard said:
I guess if you view feminism as philosophically illegitimated then there is no productive discussion to be had about its presence in any form of media.
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An important distinction has to be made between first wave feminism (which was important and necessary) and our current day third wave iteration (which is nonsensical and damaging). They are not the same thing. What current feminists say they are fighting for and what they are actually promoting is vastly different. Polling data shows that most women do not identify as feminists, I wonder why that is?

In most (if not all) first world nations women are rightfully treated equally. There are laws put in place to ensure it. Now if we're talking about some other countries where women are treated as second class citizens then feminism certainly has a role to play. But today's feminists are not really tackling that, but rather man bashing and coming up with stupid things like this...

https://globalnews.ca/news/4202437/consent-changing-diapers/

LizardWizard said:
Not all media is made for all audiences.
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Correct. I wonder what the primary target audience is for franchises like Star Trek, Star Wars, MCU, etc? Here's a hint: it ain't SJW feminists! Yet these studios continue to pander to these people an attack their core consumer base. We've seen what has happened in the case of Star Wars, Star Trek, Dr. Who and Ghostbusters, and if the MCU doesn't course correct they will eventually go in the same direction (though admittedly it will take a little longer since they have built up 10 years worth of good will through great story telling).
LizardWizard said:
It has always been a theme within in the Marvel wheelhouse and I doubt it is going to fade.
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Incorrect. Previously Marvel never put political messaging above good story telling. Hopefully they don't go down that route.


I'd suggest taking a look at some of this guy's content, as he knows more about this stuff than either of us:
https://www.youtube.com/user/youngrippa59
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Warning?

You mean encountering an opinion that perhaps differs from your own? Or am I missing something?
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No. Yes.
I legit appreciate the warning.
Knowing in advance that a particular video will be nothing but a self-appointed expert bloviating at length and ad nauseum on a set of topics I...

Just.Don't.Care

...about is: useful information. :)
 
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