AoS Big Dinos and you

[Wytchphyre77]

So I wanted to start a thread dedicated to the big Dinos. Carnosaurs, trogladons, stegadons, bastilidons, engines of the gods, and great saurans. I'm curious about how folks use them, what kind of support units go with them, and how many per list? Do you start your list building going, "OK, so I want a bastilidon with the ark... Now what goes with that?" or is it more, "this list is low on shooting, I could get a bastilidon to cover that base..."

In my very limited experience, it seems as though everyone has a carnosaur. Then, the rest get hazy. They are all decent beatsticks except the bastilidon. They're all decently durable, except the oldblood. So, like the venn diagram of usefulness between units has a ton of overlap.

I'm hoping to collect the general thoughts of some better err... Generals than myself.

Like I want big monsters... But, I'm having a hard time. Why oh why wouldn't I take more troops I can stack with command abilities, that cost less to summon the casualties back to the board?

 

[Wytchphyre77]

Oops wrong forum. If noticed by admin, please move to age of sigmar general discussion. My b.

 

[Aginor]

Moved.

 

[Xuil]

I’m finding that with the new meeting engagements, bastilidons are an (albeit expensive) decent option. As they don’t have a wound table, they can weather some damage as a result of arriving solo without losing any effectiveness.

Carnos... well. They rarely perform quite as well as I hope. But that’ll never stop me gleefully charging it at other behemoths.

 

[Nart]

1) Engine of the Gods. Nothing to say here. A couple of good rolls and it pays of summoning units of it's own cost. Or can one-shot a squishy supporting character. It can be suprisingly strong in melee too. Decently for support platform, at least. On top of that, it is a character and can get nice artefacts.
2) Stegadon. Moving in hero phase after LoSaT, giving himself rerolls to-hit, devastating anti-horde weapon or long ranged shooting. Rend -3. All of this just for 200 pts. A little squishy, but units must to have downsides, doesn't they?
3) Oldblood on Carno. With new point costs it can be devastating in dracothions tail (you can have up to 7 CP on start without sacrificing artefacts or warlord traits). It is totally self-sustained because of command ability and artefacts. It is not durable, however, and his charge will probably get suicidal. But with a bit of luck, it can take down monsters that costs 1.5 times more.
4) Bastiladon. Unlike Oldblood and stegadons, you have to build around Bastiladon. His accuracy is poor and high save compensated by low wounds. You want to take them in thunderquake, if you have more than one. A single one still requires astrolith bearer and will probably will eat CP/Mystic Shield every turn. But with proper build, it is one of the most unkillable models in aos. It is our only model, that has a chance to survive Terrorgeist charge, even if it rolls two sixes to-hit.
5) Scar-Vet on carno. Unlike Oldblood, his command ability designed to support saurus hordes. Unless you play mass saurus, Oldblood is better in every single way. Yes, Scar-Vet ignores rend -1, but it still cannot go toe-to-toe with other strong monsters and, unlike Oldblood, he has almost no chances to one-shot them or significantly wound. Unless you give him Dimensional blade. This changes everything. Especially if used alongside Oldblood with Doppelganger cloak. This duet can make a really devastating charge.
6) Troglodon. It is weaker in every way, but very cheap in points and easy to summon. He is perfect for killing small chaff units or distracting opponent (nobody trust a big dino into their backline). He could be very nice if chagned to hero/wizard. But for now low cost is it's main strength.

 

[Wytchphyre77]

So, it looks like, if I want to be able to run the various Dinos, the smart thing is to have 1 trog, 1 carnosaur (scar vet, I do run huge blocks of saurus), and get a stegadon kit and magnetize it, get 2 bastillidons and magnetize them also.


As for the bastillidons, do I care about the ark? It seems too random, but LoSaT popping one up into the enemy lines with the ark seems fun. "eat my tarpit from hell!"

 

[Canas]

As for the bastillidons, do I care about the ark? It seems too random, but LoSaT popping one up into the enemy lines with the ark seems fun. "eat my tarpit from hell!"

The ark is actually fairly decent. It actually has a decent output even with only 1 target (it is only slightly worse on average than our new single target nuke spell, but with a higher maximum potential for single target damage), it's one of our few mortal wound sources & it potentially has great zoning potential as the more units get stuck near it the more likely it is someone will be damaged, so dumping it on an heavily contested objective or in a nice chokepoint is a great way of chipping away at enemies. Also, it being a consistent AoE does have some interesting potential for triggering loads of battleshock, which could potentially be interesting in combination with our various battleshock mechanics.

However, compared to the solar engine it lacks range, reliabile focus (especially important when the enemy can heal/ressurect..) & doesn't synergize with anything (no re-rolls, +1 to hit, etc.). And sadly a bastiladon has relativly little going on offensivly beyond it's magical artifact. And as a consequence the solar engine regularly outshines the ark.

 

[Wytchphyre77]

The ark is actually fairly decent. It actually has a decent output even with only 1 target (it is only slightly worse on average than our new single target nuke spell, but with a higher maximum potential for single target damage), it's one of our few mortal wound sources & it potentially has great zoning potential as the more units get stuck near it the more likely it is someone will be damaged, so dumping it on an heavily contested objective or in a nice chokepoint is a great way of chipping away at enemies. Also, it being a consistent AoE does have some interesting potential for triggering loads of battleshock, which could potentially be interesting in combination with our various battleshock mechanics.

However, compared to the solar engine it lacks range, reliabile focus (especially important when the enemy can heal/ressurect..) & doesn't synergize with anything (no re-rolls, +1 to hit, etc.). And sadly a bastiladon has relativly little going on offensivly beyond it's magical artifact. And as a consequence the solar engine regularly outshines the ark.

Fair point. I guess I'm just stuck... Cause I love the ark model and just hate the ring-pop Lazer.

 

[Canas]

Also, there's the awkward range on the ark. It's only 8" which makes it impossible to use with teleporting. Imho teleporting and deepstriking should be changed to allow units to get closer and get a different disadvantage in return. Right now units that use it either barely care about the range restriction cuz they have plenty of charge modifiers or are shooty-units or the range restriction all but guarantees the unit won't actually do anything this turn. I'd like to something a bit more middleground…

Fair point. I guess I'm just stuck... Cause I love the ark model and just hate the ring-pop Lazer.

meh, as long as you don't play in a very competitive enviroment you can probably make it work. Especially if your regular opponents bring loads of units and little healing If it's few units or loads of healing it's probably not going to work too well.

 

[Nart]

So, it looks like, if I want to be able to run the various Dinos, the smart thing is to have 1 trog, 1 carnosaur (scar vet, I do run huge blocks of saurus), and get a stegadon kit and magnetize it, get 2 bastillidons and magnetize them also.

I'd get every single one in every variation. Because they are awesome! They are aztecs dinosaurs riding dinosaurs after all!

Fair point. I guess I'm just stuck... Cause I love the ark model and just hate the ring-pop Lazer.

Arc looks more like a trick that can catch opponent off guard. If you manage to put one near several squishy heroes, it could be really devastating. If you get it near 6 different enemy units, it would be 12 free mortal wounds. I think, it is better to summon one.

You can try the following in a friendly game: take shadowstrike to make your enemy concentrate units in one place, take stegadon for skink alpha ability and bastiladon with ark. LoSatT both monsters turn 1 and use skink alpha's on basti, than take a charge. You'll probably have most enemy units in range. You can cast Mystic Shield and Summon Starlight before teleportation, so it can survive turn 1. But this will work only once, if opponent is unprepared.

For competitive meta laser bastiladon is just superior in every way.

 

[Canas]

I'd get every single one in every variation. Because they are awesome! They are aztecs dinosaurs riding dinosaurs after all!

Clearly you're doing it wrong, you need multiple of every loadout otherwise they'l be lonely.

 

[Audvin]

With regards to Basti with Ark and short range. Since we can now reliably teleport twice with GR, you could teleport a basti and a step together and move both closer with the Skink Alpha ability.

 

[ThePhilosopherX]

For the carnosaur, I would advise also magnetizing it as it can be switched between the two variants without changing the points in your list. The Oldblood is an absolute monster against other monsters if you can get the charge off. Even better if you get two carnosaurs into the same unit. The Oldblood's command ability affects all Saurus heroes within range, meaning you buff both carnosaurs. Even one Oldblood can do some serious damage though if you stack his command ability.
If you get two carnosaur kits, you can build two carnosaurs and then use the start collecting box tutorial by @Crowsfoot to get an extra pair of troglodons. This means you don't have to choose between the carnosaur variants.

 

[Wytchphyre77]

For the carnosaur, I would advise also magnetizing it as it can be switched between the two variants without changing the points in your list. The Oldblood is an absolute monster against other monsters if you can get the charge off. Even better if you get two carnosaurs into the same unit. The Oldblood's command ability affects all Saurus heroes within range, meaning you buff both carnosaurs. Even one Oldblood can do some serious damage though if you stack his command ability.
If you get two carnosaur kits, you can build two carnosaurs and then use the start collecting box tutorial by @Crowsfoot to get an extra pair of troglodons. This means you don't have to choose between the carnosaur variants.

Sadly I've already built an oldblood on foot w/ spear, Trogladon, and Scar Vet on carnosaur with great blade.(cause ghyreshryke here, plus his command ability makes these attacks explode on 5's and rerolls aren't hard to come by.)

However, I do plan to get one last start collecting, mainly because I want to expand my Saurus knights out to 30 and two scar vets on cold ones. (and a spare 10 warriors with clubs is great.) but mainly I want the oldblood on carnosaur, because I'm realizing that his shooting is pretty solid. (not great, just solid) so, he seems the natural choice for a general for a shooting themed force. (as well as everything is else he does...)

I appreciate the knowledge y'all!

 

[Vexcor]

1) Engine of the Gods. Nothing to say here. A couple of good rolls and it pays of summoning units of it's own cost. Or can one-shot a squishy supporting character. It can be suprisingly strong in melee too. Decently for support platform, at least. On top of that, it is a character and can get nice artefacts.
2) Stegadon. Moving in hero phase after LoSaT, giving himself rerolls to-hit, devastating anti-horde weapon or long ranged shooting. Rend -3. All of this just for 200 pts. A little squishy, but units must to have downsides, doesn't they?
3) Oldblood on Carno. With new point costs it can be devastating in dracothions tail (you can have up to 7 CP on start without sacrificing artefacts or warlord traits). It is totally self-sustained because of command ability and artefacts. It is not durable, however, and his charge will probably get suicidal. But with a bit of luck, it can take down monsters that costs 1.5 times more.
4) Bastiladon. Unlike Oldblood and stegadons, you have to build around Bastiladon. His accuracy is poor and high save compensated by low wounds. You want to take them in thunderquake, if you have more than one. A single one still requires astrolith bearer and will probably will eat CP/Mystic Shield every turn. But with proper build, it is one of the most unkillable models in aos. It is our only model, that has a chance to survive Terrorgeist charge, even if it rolls two sixes to-hit.
5) Scar-Vet on carno. Unlike Oldblood, his command ability designed to support saurus hordes. Unless you play mass saurus, Oldblood is better in every single way. Yes, Scar-Vet ignores rend -1, but it still cannot go toe-to-toe with other strong monsters and, unlike Oldblood, he has almost no chances to one-shot them or significantly wound. Unless you give him Dimensional blade. This changes everything. Especially if used alongside Oldblood with Doppelganger cloak. This duet can make a really devastating charge.
6) Troglodon. It is weaker in every way, but very cheap in points and easy to summon. He is perfect for killing small chaff units or distracting opponent (nobody trust a big dino into their backline). He could be very nice if chagned to hero/wizard. But for now low cost is it's main strength.

good summary, but what about the DREAD SAURIAN???? How can you forget the biggest of all?

 

[Therkaderk]

I've had some great success with my Dread Saurian. The loss of teleport/move has made him less downright terrifying but a more consistent threat, especially now that an emergency retreat no longer has a chance of failing. The number of opponents I've had split their forces to try and finish a 4 wound Saurian that teleported to a corner has been baffling.

I know using your slann for spells vice summoning is generally frowned upon, but I almost always bring him with curse of fates and starlight, throw them both on the Saurian along with the Starpriests staff ability (12 damage at -2 rend, chomp chomp) and chuck him across the table. This will allow you to move your slann bunker forward while your opponent dedicates a massive chunk of their army to ensure they remove the Saurian before he causes any more trouble.

Alternatively against more aggressive opponents who get to your side turn 1 or themselves deep strike on top of you, he can be used as a massive wall covered in teeth. Using your now fearless skinks to keep the available Saurian surface area to a minimum, he can block a lot of threats to your slann while being damn near unkillable. Bonus points for having a few EoTGs popping new skink packs that now have to be removed to a man to get rid of them.

Or just put him on an objective in the middle with a blot toad right by him.

 

[ILKAIN]

Fair point. I guess I'm just stuck... Cause I love the ark model and just hate the ring-pop Lazer.

Don't forget that the ARK hits EVERY turn, not just yours. I was playing it wrong for a while and hated it, then realized it wasn't as bad as I thought. two Arks can create a veritable zone of denial at key points on the map, or create an aoe barrier when someone comes to take on your TQ death ball

 

[Wytchphyre77]

I've had some great success with my Dread Saurian. The loss of teleport/move has made him less downright terrifying but a more consistent threat, especially now that an emergency retreat no longer has a chance of failing. The number of opponents I've had split their forces to try and finish a 4 wound Saurian that teleported to a corner has been baffling.

I know using your slann for spells vice summoning is generally frowned upon, but I almost always bring him with curse of fates and starlight, throw them both on the Saurian along with the Starpriests staff ability (12 damage at -2 rend, chomp chomp) and chuck him across the table. This will allow you to move your slann bunker forward while your opponent dedicates a massive chunk of their army to ensure they remove the Saurian before he causes any more trouble.

Alternatively against more aggressive opponents who get to your side turn 1 or themselves deep strike on top of you, he can be used as a massive wall covered in teeth. Using your now fearless skinks to keep the available Saurian surface area to a minimum, he can block a lot of threats to your slann while being damn near unkillable. Bonus points for having a few EoTGs popping new skink packs that now have to be removed to a man to get rid of them.

Or just put him on an objective in the middle with a blot toad right by him.

So, I really want to love the Dread Lizard... But he's so expensive....

Sounds like he's worth it, but what else goes with him? Like, is he usable at 1k pts?

Don't forget that the ARK hits EVERY turn, not just yours. I was playing it wrong for a while and hated it, then realized it wasn't as bad as I thought. two Arks can create a veritable zone of denial at key points on the map, or create an aoe barrier when someone comes to take on your TQ death ball

OH, sick.... So glad I just built my basti magnatized!

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

So, I really want to love the Dread Lizard... But he's so expensive....

You could always find a proxy so you don't have to spend that ridiculous amount of money on the original from forgeworld. I just did and saved close to 134 euro. If it was moneywise you meant anyway, maybe you just meant in terms of points cost

 

[Canas]

You could always find a proxy so you don't have to spend that ridiculous amount of money on the original from forgeworld. I just did and saved close to 134 euro. If it was moneywise you meant anyway, maybe you just meant in terms of points cost

issue is finding good proxies though. Very few toys and other miniatures come close to GW standards (especially newer models.. older ones have a bit more competition)