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AoS Carnosaur tactics

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Saurus

Scurvydog

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I have been trying to get a clear sense of which carnosaur version to bring to which job, and also very importantly how to equip them with artifacts.

There are some obvious differences and and minor once and I will try to list out the pros and cons for each version, assuming NO artifacts in the equations. All damage is assumed to be on a target with a standard 4+ save model, without rerolls or aftersaves.

Old Blood on Carnosaur:

Pros:

-Slightly more offensive with an average of 6.00 damage. With rerolls (from astrolith or sunblood) this goes to 8.56. Also 0,78 damage from shooting on average.
- Bite attack is only 4+ to hit but 3 damage. Against monsters with no hit modifiers and hitting with both claws this goes to 2+ for full benefit.
- Command ability never useless, even for himself. Against monsters +2 attacks on claws is a good idea. Can stack this with more command points for burst damage.

Cons:

- No build in surviveability with a 4+ save.
- costs 20 more points than scar vet.
- Not part of a single battalion but only a "super battalion".

Scar Vet on Carnosaur:

Pros:

- Has the most surviveability with ignoring rend value of -1. Common rend value, so can add up quite a bit.
- 20 pts cheaper than old blood.
- Has a few interesting offensive artifact options due to weapon profiles with 6 attacks for the rider.

Cons:

- Carnosaur bite is only d3 damage, but hits on 3+ though. If the "pinned down" rule triggers on a monster with no hit modifiers, the +2 to hit will only actually give +1. Many heroes on monster like -1 hit artifacts however.
- Not an option in Fangs of Sotek as an old blood is required.
- Command ability best on massed saurus, which is most often used in a fangs of sotek list... see above.
- "only" 5.35 average damage and 7.39 with rerolls, so scales worse than the old blood, especially if command abilities are used.


Overall:

If not building for a specific battalion, I feel it comes down to basically offense vs defense and possibly even points. If part of a Gristlegore heavy meta, then the offense might swing in favor of the scar vet with blade of judgement, but that is somewhat niche perhaps.

Assuming a take all comers approach, I tend to favor the old blood just a slight bit more, but with a defensive artefact, such as miasmic blade or doppelganger cloak. Ethereal amulet could also be an option, especially if backed up by a skink priest to reroll saves. He is still very vulnerable however and none of these artefacts help with mortal wounds.

Especially in a smaller game, if you can stack a few CP, even the old blood alone with just 2 CP can get 9 bite attacks, with rerolls from astrolith or sunblood, this brings him into 1 shot territory on average against most monsters (not an etheral VloZD though).

Request:

I'd like to hear the experiences and opinions of you guys, did one type of Carnosaur save the day or fail miserably? Could that have been different if the other variant had been used? How do you like to equip them, including interesting combos with other heroes?
 
Interesting. I haven't tried the Oldblood yet, the scar vet however have don nothing but die to my opponents Idoneth deepkin.

One thing the Oldblood has over the scar vet is as you have said his command ability, which can make him a lot more killy. If you can take the same artefact more than once, which I have found nothing against, well then in bigger games the oldblood could statistically get infinite attacks. You do need two battalions to pull it off, since you want three Aetherquartz brooches. Then each time you use a command point you roll 3 dice and get a command point for each 5+, which statistically should happen each time with three dice.
 
Ironically I just had someone ask me why I prefer the ScV Carno over the Oldblood. I am lazy, so I am just gonna quote myself.

LizardWizard said:
Absolutely, I would be happy to expand on my preferences.

In terms of the Command abilities the Oldblood has the better self use. The ScV's Command Ability is obviously intended to be used on a large unit of Saurus in order to gain the maximum benefit. However, it is still effective when used by the ScV on itself due the volume of attacks on this model.

That brings us to the next point of comparison. The ScV has significantly more attacks than the Oldblood. It has double the number of weapon attacks on two of its loadouts. The spear is the best of the three choices in addition to its Fearsome Jaws and Stardrake Shield attack. That same shield gives the added benefit of allowing the model to ignore -1 rend. The Sunbolt gauntlet can be strong vs Chaos Demons, but is generally not going to contribute as much to the game as the -1 rend mitigation.

The Oldblood is a better target for a Skink Starpriest's Serpent staff ability. Which is not to say the ScV isn't still an excellent target as well.

These next two differences are what sets the ScV apart in my opinion. It's Jaws hit on a 3+ instead of a 4+. The trade off for its better hit rating is the Carnosaur's Massive Jaws only do D3 vs flat 3 damage. This means the ScV trades some effectiveness vs monsters in order to be much more effective against non-monster targets.

Now, to get back to the volume of attacks on their primary weapons. The ScV's Spear is an ideal target for equipping the Sword of Judgement. If you are unfamiliar with this particular artifact it cause the ScV's melee weapon (spear) to deal D6 mortal wounds to monster and heroes on any hit rolls of a 6+. This will make the ScV even better at killing heroes and monsters than the Oldblood.

Due to all these reasons, the ScV is more damaging, more durable, and more versatile in the targets it can effectively engage. As a bonus it is also 20MPP cheaper.

One thing to be noted is that the Oldblood can bank command points in order to mass spam its command command allowing for impressive burst damage. However, the ScV can do the same and remains nearly as effective, more so if the Sword of Judgement is equipped.
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Well well well, carnosaurs. my favorite.

So in general with carnosaurs you really want to maximize their effectiveness so I will go in-depth into both of them. Please note I run a saurus heavy sunclaw and fangs of sotek.

So what do these guys specialize in? Well this should be obvious, they are monster hunters. And they are damn good ones at that. To what extent? Well really good ones. From my personal experience I have had my Oldblood on carnosaur beat the life out of a zombie dragon, live, and survive the rest of the battle with minimal damage. So to maximize this there are a few things to consider.

First off is buffs, usually all you need is an artifact and some other minor buff and it should do fine. The stuff I will usually use is a light of the heavens and maybe the serpent staff. Both from the skink starpriest. Other stuff like reroll hits and wounds are effective but not mandatory. Onto artifacts. There are really two options, offensive and defensive artifacts. While defensive stuff is not bad there are other, and often more effective ways of protecting a carnosaur. For the scar veteran with spear, sword of judgment is excellent. For the Oldblood and other scar veterans, usually a rend 3 artifact will do. This is generally beneficial and allows for thick armor to be a non factor.

Onto protection. As stated earlier artifacts are decent but there are better ways to do this. One option that is definitely effective is a screen of skinks, or if your weird like me, saurus knights. This generally works out fairly well and is a solid strategy. Another good option here is defensive buffs, reroll ing saves and -1 to be hit is always nice.

Ensuring victory is the final and most important step. Pick a target, get a screen, and follow these directions. Carnosaurs, if they get the drop on something, are near unstoppable. And here you MUST ensure you strike first. Here is where oldbloods really shine. Two extra claw attacks ensure all bites go off, and with some luck the opponent will be killed or crippled. If this is a hero or monster, even if they are not outright killed, they will be so injured they cannot put up much of a fight.
 
Another great defensive artifact to consider for Carnosaurs is the Doppelganger's Cloak. If used correctly you can avoid retaliation attacks for one round of combat. It also allows you to engage with our other glass hammer units and avoid the difficult choice of rather to swing with our Carno or glasshammer first.
 
Nart said:
Olblood on Carno with Doppelganger cloak is probably our only way (besides 16 razordons, of course) to deal with "always strikes first" and "forces to attack last" monsters, which became quite numerous in current meta.
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Yeah, the 2 "defensive" settings for our carno, boil down to:
1) Doppleganger Cloak; mitigate the "Always strike first", but you'd better hope to kill your target
2) stack -1 to hit from artefact and -1 to hit from Summon Starlight. -2 is a pretty good insurance.
 
Wait the oldblood on carnasour's command ability can effect his mounts weapons? I thought only his spear was an eligible option for the extra attacks.
 
Womboski said:
Wait the oldblood on carnasour's command ability can effect his mounts weapons? I thought only his spear was an eligible option for the extra attacks.
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Well currently due to the outdated warscrolls, none of our models have the “mount” rule meaning that the carnosaur’s claws and jaws are legitimate options to augment with command points.
 
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