AoS NEW *rumor*

[Canas]

Hear hear (I'm from Spain too, and agree with the statement). But I think that's not the only problem, and may not even be the biggest problem.

I think Lizardmen themselves are very popular, how many AoS factions have specific forums dedicated to them with this many followers? It's not that we are not competitive (we should be much less competitive with a 2015 battletome), it's not the miniatures themselves (they are cool enough that even for such old models, they keep getting bought), they even do appeal to new players (we have lizards riding dinosaurs!! what's not to like?).

I think the biggest problem for our faction is that the most used miniatures in any competitive Seraphon list, (and some of the coolest models), at least in Spain, can only be bought via web: slann starmaster, razordons, stegadons, kroak, carnosaur/troglodon, salamanders, chameleon skinks, astrolith bearer, any saurus hero, skink starseer, kroxigors... this is, out of 23 different kits (start collecting included) we have access to, only 6 (skinks, terradon/rippers, bastilodon, guard, starpriest and start collecting) are directly available to be bought in stores.

Now imagine you are a 16 year old kid that goes to your local game store, and have seen some awesome pictures of the dinosaurs models in some redditt post, or instagram, or whatever, and ask the store owner what he needs to start playing them, and he wants to be able to stand a chance in some games with their friends. Obviously, the store owner will tell him: "well kid, you need a slann, an astrolith bearer, a couple stegadons, a couple bastilodons, a couple razordons and a lot of skinks", and the kid, who is with his father, asks the owner if he has the miniatures, and he answers "well, almost all the models are webstore exclusive, i only have here the skinks and the bastiladons". "Can i play a gsme with those?", the kid asks. The answer, of course is "No". And what the kid will do? Wait 2 weeks to get the models? No, he will buy something else that there is in the store at the moment, probably SCE, skeletons, zombies or anything else. But he won't play Seraphon.

I think that's one of the biggest problems when wanting to play Seraphon.

P.S.: By the way, you can't buy a slann or razordons via web at the moment, they are "temporarily unavailable"

That seems to be a general issue with GW.. the insistance on keeping everything on their store. It also doesn't help that it requires a credit card which you can't get as a teen, while other options that would be available to teens aren't on the GW store.

 

[LordBaconBane]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ageofsigma...arly/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Looks like Sylvaneth is next

 

[Acrocanth]

P.S.: By the way, you can't buy a slann or razordons via web at the moment, they are "temporarily unavailable"

Only in spain not in say canada where I am. I wouldn't read too much into it, they probably just need to make some more with spanish packaging.

I mean we have a unique army with dinosaurs!!! , and mostly fresh looking kits that aren't too out of place next to the new kits. Hey we even got that big discounted bundle last christmas. We could be in worse places guys? I do feel like they didn't really know how to translate the mostly isolationist lizard people into their new setting.

 

[Acrocanth]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ageofsigma...arly/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Looks like Sylvaneth is next

That just looks like art for the sylvaneth v gloom gobo box we knew was coming, I wouldn't be surprised if they were next but it also took 4 months from wrath and rapture to the hedonite codex coming out so still plenty of rumor stuff to bat back and forth

Yup new box no battletome. 2 new characters basically another box like carrion empire.

 

[Womboski]

People keep saying Seraphon is in a good spot. It is competitive, we don't really need an update. Personally I cant consider spamming Skinks and Razordons as a good state to be in. Basically if we want to win we throw so many skinks onto the board that our opponent can't kill them all and we score objectives. I don't believe this is a fun mechanic. Also it doesn't feel anything like Seraphon. Oh I'm a badass dino race. Let me throw baby lizards at you and run away for 5 turns...

I agree with the statement that the Seraphon community is dwindling. I'm the only Seraphon player at my local store and I refuse to play till my Saururs are worth taking. I only play Tzeentch now and I think there are a lot of Seraphon players who have jumped ship because they don't want to spam skinks.

In regards to other races also need updates, of course they do, but this is Lustria online... we talking seraphon

 

[Cerind]

To be fair I don't think many said here our faction is in a good spot per se, but GW use metrics to assess everything, as any company would, and one of these is how well represented they are in tournaments, and how they fare there. And seraphon do OK to pretty good for these metrics considering they are on an old battletome and models.

This can actually help rather than hinder our development, as popularity in tournaments can generate new players (new to faction at least) and prompt new developments to sell more stuff.

Anyway all aos factions will get a book this year so what's a few more months =)
(I also collect sisters of battle so General Relativity is something I master quite well )

 

[LordBaconBane]

I see some people talking about declining Seraphon popularity but my local store has 4, including me, Seraphon players. For context, I've seen three Stormcast players.

 

[Acrocanth]

Here's the real rumour question, when seraphon get a new book there will be endless spells and a terrain piece. Do any of the rumour engines pics look remotely like they could come from those kits? There will probably be a rumour engine pic from one of them so if you can't see anything like that chances are it will be further in the year.

 

[Aginor]

People keep saying Seraphon is in a good spot. It is competitive, we don't really need an update. Personally I cant consider spamming Skinks and Razordons as a good state to be in. Basically if we want to win we throw so many skinks onto the board that our opponent can't kill them all and we score objectives. I don't believe this is a fun mechanic. Also it doesn't feel anything like Seraphon. Oh I'm a badass dino race. Let me throw baby lizards at you and run away for 5 turns...

I agree with the statement that the Seraphon community is dwindling. I'm the only Seraphon player at my local store and I refuse to play till my Saururs are worth taking. I only play Tzeentch now and I think there are a lot of Seraphon players who have jumped ship because they don't want to spam skinks.

In regards to other races also need updates, of course they do, but this is Lustria online... we talking seraphon

Well, to be fair there are quite a few armies that have only a small subset of their units or tactics that actually works on a competitive level, but I still agree.

We are supposed to be a versatile army, we can build pretty different lists. Buy sadly only very few work well on a competitive level.

 

[Aginor]

Here's the real rumour question, when seraphon get a new book there will be endless spells and a terrain piece. Do any of the rumour engines pics look remotely like they could come from those kits? There will probably be a rumour engine pic from one of them so if you can't see anything like that chances are it will be further in the year.

There is one unresolved rumour picture that could be Seraphon, it shows a few scales. But that's it IIRC.

 

[LordBaconBane]

Well, to be fair there are quite a few armies that have only a small subset of their units or tactics that actually works on a competitive level, but I still agree.

We are supposed to be a versatile army, we can build pretty different lists. Buy sadly only very few work well on a competitive level.

One thing I have noticed in competitive video games is that often time a small subset of the games characters, cards, units, etc, is actually used. In Clash Royale, only a handful of cards are really useful. In Super Smash, some characters are just not useful at all. (My work hosted a Smash Tourny and a few people raised their eyebrows when i picked Kirby)

I'm getting off topic but my point is that it's next to impossible to not have a game so balanced where everything can be useful. Unless you're Star Craft: Brood War, which actually achieved balance.

Still, a +1 save to saurus and +1 wound to temple guard, allegiance changes to actually make Carnosaurs viable general picks, and tweaks to units like Kroxigors and Terradons are a good place to start.

 

[Canas]

One thing I have noticed in competitive video games is that often time a small subset of the games characters, cards, units, etc, is actually used. In Clash Royale, only a handful of cards are really useful. In Super Smash, some characters are just not useful at all. (My work hosted a Smash Tourny and a few people raised their eyebrows when i picked Kirby)

I'm getting off topic but my point is that it's next to impossible to not have a game so balanced where everything can be useful. Unless you're Star Craft: Brood War, which actually achieved balance.

Still, a +1 save to saurus and +1 wound to temple guard, allegiance changes to actually make Carnosaurs viable general picks, and tweaks to units like Kroxigors and Terradons are a good place to start.

In fairness, competitive videogames tend to be fairly idiotic when it comes to balance. Especially those explicitly aiming to be e-sports. The amount of stuff that's just completly broken at normal levels of play but is considered "balanced" cuz at the proper top players are good enough to counter it's OP nonsense is just hilarious. Or even better, completly broken nonsense that was originally a bug or borderline exploit, but was deemed "skillfull" so for some reason it stuck around and got incorperated into the game. Not to mention the amount of mechanics that just flat out don't make sense but are deemed cool (e.g. League of Legends has massive issues with mobility creep to the point impassable terrain can be little more than a formality at times)

Super Smash is a briljant example of that. The "competitive" scene imposes weird rules because for some inexplicable reason they've decided that any semblance of RNG is somehow unbalanced. So instead of doing something sensible, like say do a best out of 3, or using enough lifes to Ensure the RNG balances out, or maybe banning the 1-2 things that are genuinly problematic. They ban half the freaking game, which gives a massive advantage to some characters while effectivly breaking others.

That's not to say that balance is easy, and especially at the very top players will Always play relativly similarly (it's not like the top football teams at the worldcup play very differently from eachother either.). But at the "average" levels of play it's more than doable to reach a decent state of balance while mantaining a massive variaty in playstyles. Videogames, especially the current generation and especially e-sports, just don't seem to care much about that.

Anyway back to our lizards, it's not like seraphon need to go and win all tournaments. But it'd be nice if we didn't Always bring the same general and if skinks, rippers and razordons didn't compose half of our armies.

 

[Just A Skink]

That just looks like art for the sylvaneth v gloom gobo box we knew was coming, I wouldn't be surprised if they were next but it also took 4 months from wrath and rapture to the hedonite codex coming out so still plenty of rumor stuff to bat back and forth

Yup new box no battletome. 2 new characters basically another box like carrion empire.

It's possible that the Sylvaneth battletome might not come next, but here is the upcoming Looncurse boxed set. The two new heroes look pretty cool.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/28/coming-soon-looncurse/

 

[Nart]

People keep saying Seraphon is in a good spot.

Being outdated doesn't especially mean that army performing poor. Sylvaneth perform better then Seraphon on the tournament scene, yet getting battletome even earlier.

Spamming skinks may be the thing why we can compete top-tier armies, but it doesn't come to that only. Thunderquake list that won adepticon wasn't about all-summoning. Compared to some other, even newer factions, Seraphon really have some variety on competitive lists and even more on semi-competitive.

This doesn't cancel the fact that we don't have battle traits, spell lore, mount tratis, etc. which every new battletome had. This is exactly the reason why we need new battletome, and it barely has anything to do with tournament performance.

And GW mentioned several times, that battletome for every faction is coming. Our's could be already finished/printed. I just have a feeling that release could be somehow tied to Underworlds, so they can include warband warscrolls in a new battletome.

 

[Joshua Horchler]

I feel like we should all have high hopes for Saurus, especially guard. Totally different armies, but look what they did to the Fireslayer units. Makes me excited because I really want to see some Saurus on the table eating people.

 

[Aginor]

I feel like we should all have high hopes for Saurus, especially guard. Totally different armies, but look what they did to the Fireslayer units. Makes me excited because I really want to see some Saurus on the table eating people.

All Saurus getting a wound more would definitely not something I'd be opposed against!

 

[Just A Skink]

I feel like we should all have high hopes for Saurus, especially guard. Totally different armies, but look what they did to the Fireslayer units. Makes me excited because I really want to see some Saurus on the table eating people.

If they do "improve" Saurus, how do you all think that will affect the dynamic in the Seraphon army?

 

[Lizerd]

Well, saurus are not as completely awful as we think. Just did a game and did a grinding draw with a far better designed death army. Also good news is the guy at my GW said that they have completely destocked their seraphon battle tomes, and that they are expecting them To be replaced ( he hinted at this) with probably something new.

 

[LordBaconBane]

Well, saurus are not as completely awful as we think. Just did a game and did a grinding draw with a far better designed death army. Also good news is the guy at my GW said that they have completely destocked their seraphon battle tomes, and that they are expecting them To be replaced ( he hinted at this) with probably something new.

Saurus are good with synergies. On their own, not worth the points. In a game recently vs Nurgle, they held firm when backed up by mystic shield, a sunblood, and buffs from starpriest. But I've also had a unit of clan rats wipe 20 Saurus warriors in one round... more than once.

They are a good unit, but not worth 100 points for ten models. I'd either change their save to 4+ and leave the cost the same or reduce points to 90 and have bonus go from 360->320. That mighy seem drastic but Clan Rats are better for 200 points for 40, and chainrasps are 280 for 40, and are an incredible battleline unit.

 

[Canas]

Saurus are good with synergies. On their own, not worth the points. In a game recently vs Nurgle, they held firm when backed up by mystic shield, a sunblood, and buffs from starpriest. But I've also had a unit of clan rats wipe 20 Saurus warriors in one round... more than once.

They are a good unit, but not worth 100 points for ten models. I'd either change their save to 4+ and leave the cost the same or reduce points to 90 and have bonus go from 360->320. That mighy seem drastic but Clan Rats are better for 200 points for 40, and chainrasps are 280 for 40, and are an incredible battleline unit.

yeah, the main issue of warriors is the overreliance on buffs and synergies. This not only makes them very expensive but also makes them very simple to beat. There's just so many ways of knocking them down a peg or two and thus removing a significant chunk of the threat.