8th Ed. 2.5k - Lizardmen vs High Elves

[livewaaaaagh]

Hi all,

Have a 2.5k battle coming up against high Elves and I was toying around with 2 lists. Let me know which one you prefer and what changes would you make to your preferred one.

note: I'm limited by models. I have 24 skinks, and no salamander model yet.

List 1
Slann - Wandering Deliberations, Harmonic Convergence, Reservoir + channeling staff & banner of disicpline.

Saurus Scar-vet on Carno + loping Stride. Piranha Blade, shield + LA.
Saurus Scar-vet on CO - Stegadon helm, luckstone, LA + GW
Skink Priest - lvl 2 of Heavens - dispel scroll

Core:
37 Saurus Warriors HW/S + FC
2x 12 Skinks with Javelins & Champ

Special
5 Chameleon Skinks
5 CO Riders, musican, standard and spears.
Stegadon w/ sharpened horns
20 Temple Guard, FC.

2510 - need to shave off 10 points somehwere. but otherwise, that's that.

The idea behind this one is the Stegadon / Carno can go aafter dragons or phoenix. Or even cavarly/chariots.No cannon means while the bolt throwers can hurt, they are no cannons.

List 2
Slann - same load out as above. I've become a Wandering Deliberations fanboy.
Saurus Scar-vet on CO - Stegadon helm, luckstone, ironcurse icon - LA + GW
Saurus Scar-vet on foot - Egg of quango, enchanted shield, sword of striking., LA.
Skink Priest, lvl 2 of heavens + dispel scroll.

37 Saurus Warriors HW/S + FC
2x 12 Skinks with Javelins & Champ

Bastilodon with solar
5 chameleon skinks
5 CO Riders, FC, Spears
24 Temple Guard, FC
Stegadon, Sharpened Horns.

List 2 also has a variable of trading the Stegadon for a Troglodon and add an extra Temple Guard.

Thoughts on this one: Similar to a list I played at a Tourney recently and it did rather well. the insertion of the Bastilodon provides that magic spell that works great to draw out dice and hold a flank. The idea of a Troglodon is that the list is heavy on PF Saurus, so it could make a difference - plus it's another arcane vassal and another channel.

Thoughts?

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Hi all,

Have a 2.5k battle coming up against high Elves and I was toying around with 2 lists. Let me know which one you prefer and what changes would you make to your preferred one.

note: I'm limited by models. I have 24 skinks, and no salamander model yet.

List 1
Slann - Wandering Deliberations, Harmonic Convergence, Reservoir + channeling staff & banner of disicpline.

Saurus Scar-vet on Carno + loping Stride. Piranha Blade, shield + LA.
Saurus Scar-vet on CO - Stegadon helm, luckstone, LA + GW
Skink Priest - lvl 2 of Heavens - dispel scroll

Core:
37 Saurus Warriors HW/S + FC
2x 12 Skinks with Javelins & Champ

Special
5 Chameleon Skinks
5 CO Riders, musican, standard and spears.
Stegadon w/ sharpened horns
20 Temple Guard, FC.

2510 - need to shave off 10 points somehwere. but otherwise, that's that.

The idea behind this one is the Stegadon / Carno can go aafter dragons or phoenix. Or even cavarly/chariots.No cannon means while the bolt throwers can hurt, they are no cannons.

List 2
Slann - same load out as above. I've become a Wandering Deliberations fanboy.
Saurus Scar-vet on CO - Stegadon helm, luckstone, ironcurse icon - LA + GW
Saurus Scar-vet on foot - Egg of quango, enchanted shield, sword of striking., LA.
Skink Priest, lvl 2 of heavens + dispel scroll.

37 Saurus Warriors HW/S + FC
2x 12 Skinks with Javelins & Champ

Bastilodon with solar
5 chameleon skinks
5 CO Riders, FC, Spears
24 Temple Guard, FC
Stegadon, Sharpened Horns.

List 2 also has a variable of trading the Stegadon for a Troglodon and add an extra Temple Guard.

Thoughts on this one: Similar to a list I played at a Tourney recently and it did rather well. the insertion of the Bastilodon provides that magic spell that works great to draw out dice and hold a flank. The idea of a Troglodon is that the list is heavy on PF Saurus, so it could make a difference - plus it's another arcane vassal and another channel.

Thoughts?

I'm assuming this is the list you summoned me from EEFL to assist with?

I like the idea of using the Carnosaur myself - Dragons are one thing a Carnosaur can reliably kill and of course as you say there are no Cannons. It might be worth giving your Slann Lore of Life so you can heal any wounds your Carnosaur suffers from Bolt Throwers so he'll last longer. On the other hand a Bastiladon with Solar Engine will be great at killing off his T3 infantry - even if you roll a 1 your hits are still wounding him on 4s and will hopefully kill a couple. The only problem with the Solar Engine is that it's a Bound Spell, so if he takes a lot of Mages he will be able to dispel it pretty easily. If you do decide on this over the Carnosaur, I would advise casting for the Solar Engine last after he's wasted all his dispel dice against your other spells, to ensure you can fry some of his troops every turn.

I'm thinking 37 Saurus in a single unit might be a bit excessive, because one unit will generally only be able to fight one enemy unit at a time, two or 3 at maximum (and that would require a jammy charge to hit them together), and your opponent could use this by sending Spearmen and other weaker troops in to keep it occupied, while two smaller units (2 x 20 would be worth considering) would be more difficult to tie up. Also your opponent could divide up the big horde by attacking with multiple units in the front to reduce your effectiveness against each unit, while units of 20 wouldn't have so much of that problem.

You have two main advantages in that all High Elves are T3 (apart from their monsters of course) so your Saurus be wounding on 3s (Temple Guard will be wounding on 2s, which will be brutal especially with the buffs they get from Slann) and that you've got 2 attacks per model so will be bringing a good few more attacks, so I would say pack as many Saurus units in as you can - they can grind over his basic Spearmen and his elite troops will only have 1 attack each so you can weather the storm before kicking out a bigger storm of your own.

Skink cohorts are going to be hopelessly outranged by his 30" archers and picked off before they get to fire their blowpipes (although Chameleons will be useful purely as artillery crew hunters as they're more difficult to hit), and while Skirmishers have that -1 penalty to hit, his archers have BS 4 so will still be hitting you on 4s (or 5s at long range), so while they may be useful at times, I would argue against taking them against HE.

Lore of Heavens is a nice and killy lore, and all Heavens spells deal a bonus D6 Strength 4 hits against flyers, which is great against an army that loves taking Dragons, Griffons, Eagles and Phoenixes, so I agree on your choice for the priest's lore.

Just some initial ruminations at the moment, hope that helps.

 

[livewaaaaagh]

haha ! yes!

I like your feedback. I haven't realyl played a serious game with the Carnosaur, so that's why I'm a bit hesitant. But I think it could definitely be fun. But I also agree and see your point about the Solar Engine. I could, of course, drop the Stegadon and bring in the Bastilodon. I just read here on Lustria that given the impact hits fromt he Steg vs ASF, it's a good idea to bring vs HE.

My worries simply are that HEs have a ton of good options. So you never know what you'll face!
Heavens is coming inc ase of dragons, phoenix and eagles!

Thank you for your help!

 

[mould2k]

I'd go down to a 30 man unit of saurus and up to 21 or 26 of TG. That allows you to take some damage on the way in on your TG and maintain ranks. My slann bunker is usually 26 TG so I can be 5 ranks of 6.

Are the cold one cavalry to support your scar vet cowboy? If so I'd probably go 5 with HW rather than spears and no FC to shave some points off, COC are pricey after all.

I'd never swap in a trog for the steg, trog just doesn't do enough in 8th ed.

Other than that, both of those lists look similar to what I would play.

 

[livewaaaaagh]

I'd go down to a 30 man unit of saurus and up to 21 or 26 of TG. That allows you to take some damage on the way in on your TG and maintain ranks. My slann bunker is usually 26 TG so I can be 5 ranks of 6.

Are the cold one cavalry to support your scar vet cowboy? If so I'd probably go 5 with HW rather than spears and no FC to shave some points off, COC are pricey after all.

I'd never swap in a trog for the steg, trog just doesn't do enough in 8th ed.

Other than that, both of those lists look similar to what I would play.

Thank you for the feedback.

So the concern with the 30 man unit of Saurus is that I need to still hit 625pts in core. and I'm limited to 24 skinks in total. So I have to up the number of saurus to reach the core min. Otherwise, I would agree.

The Cold Ones are there to be a bus for the Scar Vet. Why do you think I should FC & Spears? standard helps combat resolution, and Spears give the unit a very strong Str 5 on the charge + the Cold One attacks , I feel the whole unit becomes something more serious to be contended with. Is there anything I'm mistaken on?

Also, I've worked in a way to bring an Engine of the Gods Steg instead of the bay Steg. So I might go for this.

 

[livewaaaaagh]

Great news - the list was a success!