AoS Trog in thunderquake

[forlustria]

Anyone tried a thunderquake with a trog instead of an engine. The other week I played a seraphon army using a thunder quake with the engine which i couldn't kill and it only had 10 wounds a trog is cheaper and has 12. I know the engine does other bits but the trig is cheaper.
All thoughts welcome

 

[Aginor]

Yeah sure, I did that a few times.
It works, and it is a bit cheaper.

If you can spare the points you should go for the EotG, but sometimes you just want to play something different.

IIRC this is the list I played, a double Basti list with loads of shooting:


Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
Skink Starpriest (80)

Battleline
40 x Skinks (240)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

Units
4 x Razordons (160)
3 x Skink Handlers (40)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (280)
Bastiladon (280)
Troglodon (160)

Battalions
Thunderquake Starhost (120)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40) (or maybe I played a BWV for maximum Slann summon)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120

 

[Canas]

A trog in a thynderquake has several major drawbacks.

1) It's not a hero, so your artifact needs to go somewhere else
2) The thunderquake buff centers around your trog (or EoTG). Unfortunatly your trog is a frontline unit, whereas the EoTG can hang in the backline, so he's more liable to be killed. Thus losing the buff.
3) The EoTG is vastly superiour stat and ability wise (the only advantages the trog has is speed and 2 more wounds).

All in all, this kinda means the Trog is really only sensible in a thunderquake if you're short on points. It simply just doesn't really add anything.

 

[PJetski]

Why not both? You can use a Troglodon as the centerpiece for the Thunderquake and then add in an EOTG outside of the battalion.

The Troglodon has more wounds so he's less likely to die to mortal wounds, and is faster so it's easier to keep good positioning. With full rerolls the Troglodon can do some damage to low armor targets, but ultimately you don't care if he gets into combat or not.

This means your opponent has to waste resources killing a relatively worthless monster if he wants to remove your ultra powerful buffs, but then he still has to deal with the other 3 monsters that actually matter.

I kinda like it...

 

[Canas]

Why not both? You can use a Troglodon as the centerpiece for the Thunderquake and then add in an EOTG outside of the battalion.

The Troglodon has more wounds so he's less likely to die to mortal wounds, and is faster so it's easier to keep good positioning. With full rerolls the Troglodon can do some damage to low armor targets, but ultimately you don't care if he gets into combat or not.

This means your opponent has to waste resources killing a relatively worthless monster if he wants to remove your ultra powerful buffs, but then he still has to deal with the other 3 monsters that actually matter.

I kinda like it...

meh, the EoTG probably benefits more from the battalion bonus than the Trog does, so taking the EoTG outside of the battalion when taking both seems suboptimal

 

[Scurvydog]

I think the Trog might have a place alongside Stegadons equipped with sunfire throwers perhaps. Stegadons with rerolls 1s to hit (with their own buff) and then reroll to wound with thunderquake absolutely wrecks hordes. I tried this recently against a DoK player and 1 stegadon alone crippled a 30 strong unit of sisters of slaughter. Meanwhile the bastilladon in my list did nothing.

There is at least niche uses of other setups than just engine and 2 bastis being turtles. If nothing else a more aggressive frontline variant can be fun and if you do not run with a Slann for any reason, then the extra dispel from the Trog can help out there.

 

[Canas]

Stegadons vs bastiladons have fairly clear use-cases. It's mostly the Trog that's underwhelming. Whereas the only significant advantage the Trog has is that it's cheaper and doesn't take up a hero slot. In basicly every other aspect the EoTG is just flat out better, both as an individual unit and in terms of synergy with the bonusses from the battalion. Which all in all leaves the Trog rather lackluster as an option here.

 

[Killer Angel]

i could see the trog in a really "cheap" TQ.
Troglodon + double stegadon: very fast units (especially considering the additional moves granted by the alphas), set the TQ with rerolls on charge and to hit, and you'll have a fast train of charging dinos.

It's not competitive, but should be a fun list, certainly something your opponent won't expect.

 

[Canas]

i could see the trog in a really "cheap" TQ.
Troglodon + double stegadon: very fast units (especially considering the additional moves granted by the alphas), set the TQ with rerolls on charge and to hit, and you'll have a fast train of charging dinos.

It's not competitive, but should be a fun list, certainly something your opponent won't expect.

Even at it's best that's just a poor immitation of certain a certain destruction tactic. I could maybe see it work if we got amazing bonusses on the charge for these models. Or if the TQ bonus charge bonus was way more powerfull than what it is now (hell if you use the alpha's to move 2 out of 3 dino's half the TQ re-roll bonus becomes kinda useless…). But we don't. It mostly just seems like a good way of getting your big dinosaurs killed cuz they ran to far ahead of the pack.

Plus, with only 2 alpha's you're going to have to leave 1 model behind which is just kinda awkward.

 

[Killer Angel]

Even at it's best that's just a poor immitation of certain a certain destruction tactic.

Oh, i know, i was only thinking to what could be done if you are "forced" to field a TQ. This would be playable at 1250 pts....

Plus, with only 2 alpha's you're going to have to leave 1 model behind which is just kinda awkward.

The idea on paper is that the trog stays a little behind, but:
1) he can fill the gap in the charge phase with a successful shooting attack
2) at least the 2 steggies will get the bonuses at the beginning of the charge, so they should be able to exploit it

 

[Canas]

Meh, still seems like a waste of the bonus for the most part, the alpha's ability alone is nearly as effective as the entire "swift" bonus. You might as well just field 2 stegadons on their own then and skip the entire battalion all together.

 

[Killer Angel]

Meh, still seems like a waste of the bonus for the most part, the alpha's ability alone is nearly as effective as the entire "swift" bonus.

that's not a problem, if you see you are not going to need the reroll for charge, you set TQ as savage, so the steggies will reroll 1s to hit and all to wound.

Still nothing exceptional, but i struggle to find a use for a Trog as key unit of a TQ.

 

[Canas]

that's not a problem, if you see you are not going to need the reroll for charge, you set TQ as savage, so the steggies will reroll 1s to hit and all to wound.

Still nothing exceptional, but i struggle to find a use for a Trog as key unit of a TQ.

I think the trog should just get its own battalion to be honest. Maybe then he'l amount to something nice.

 

[ILKAIN]

I think the trog should just get its own battalion to be honest. Maybe then he'l amount to something nice.

Imagine if they put it in some sort of fast attack battalion, with knights that got an increase in move for being a part of it

 

[PabloTho]

I think the trog should just get its own battalion to be honest. Maybe then he'l amount to something nice.

I still think what the Trog needs is the hero keyword, a skink-benefitting command ability and some rend on his attacks.

In my last game, I had my Troglodon charge a single Khorne Khorgorath, which killed him in two turns and took about 5 damage in return. Bear in mind a Khorgorath is 100 points.

Even for 160 points, he is far too unreliable for any given role. You could mention his potential as a more mobile and tanky 'arcane vassal' but who is using the Slann for anything but summoning / cogs / BV?

I want to love the guy, I really do. He is up there with the carnosaur as my favorite model in our range - but I can count on one hand the number of times hes actually done something important in a game. The EOTG on the other hand has proved it's worth many times over for me.

 

[Canas]

I still think what the Trog needs is the hero keyword, a skink-benefitting command ability and some rend on his attacks.

In my last game, I had my Troglodon charge a single Khorne Khorgorath, which killed him in two turns and took about 5 damage in return. Bear in mind a Khorgorath is 100 points.

Even for 160 points, he is far too unreliable for any given role. You could mention his potential as a more mobile and tanky 'arcane vassal' but who is using the Slann for anything but summoning / cogs / BV?

I want to love the guy, I really do. He is up there with the carnosaur as my favorite model in our range - but I can count on one hand the number of times hes actually done something important in a game. The EOTG on the other hand has proved it's worth many times over for me.

O he needs a whole host of other tweaks and buffs as well. But I think he'l still needs to get his own battalion as he doesn't fit in nicely with the TQ. TQ makes the leader a walking buff shrine, which fits perfectly with an EoTG, but doesn't with a Trog. The Trog would function much better as leader of a fast attack battalion or something like that (for example a skink version of the firelance) as that would actually synergize with it.

 

[Aginor]

Once we get meaningful magic the arcane vassal might get a bit more important.
To be honest I was surprised (and also a bit angry) about how GW took away the arcane vassal + endless spells combo.
When they previewed endless spells they even made an article talking about cool combos for Seraphon and endless spells, like summoning a Skink hero or a Troglodon and then casting spells through them.
Then a few days later they destroyed that combo...

 

[Canas]

Once we get meaningful magic the arcane vassal might get a bit more important.

Arcane vassal in general is a tad pointless currently...

To be honest I was surprised (and also a bit angry) about how GW took away the arcane vassal + endless spells combo.
When they previewed endless spells they even made an article talking about cool combos for Seraphon and endless spells, like summoning a Skink hero or a Troglodon and then casting spells through them.
Then a few days later they destroyed that combo...

I refuse to acknowledge that change. Arcane vassal has very clear counterplay and limitations, it's arguably one of the few good examples of range increases to spells.

 

[Aginor]

Yep. There are very few models who could abuse the rule of endless spells working like normal spells in that regard (Morathi being the main reason for the nerf), and instead of nerfing those few models they hit the whole game mechanic with the nerf bat.

 

[ILKAIN]

O he needs a whole host of other tweaks and buffs as well. But I think he'l still needs to get his own battalion as he doesn't fit in nicely with the TQ. TQ makes the leader a walking buff shrine, which fits perfectly with an EoTG, but doesn't with a Trog. The Trog would function much better as leader of a fast attack battalion or something like that (for example a skink version of the firelance) as that would actually synergize with it.

Idea thief lol, Fast attack battalion is exactly what it needs.