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Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
I know - I was disputing whether they were really better than Sigmarines because they’re the cash-grab Primaris Marines from the abomination that is 8th Edition rather than the real McCoy, but each to their own *shrug*
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Care to elaborate?
Because really almost no one miss 40k 7th edition , with those broken free formations...
 
Killer Angel said:
Care to elaborate?
Because really almost no one miss 40k 7th edition , with those broken free formations...
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Yeah, I never played 7th as the only new content could have been stuffed into an expansion book for 6th. I stuck with good old 6th and have never looked back.

As for your question, I’ll give you plenty of reasons why 8th Edition is bad:
1. The focus on having so-called ‘Lords of War’ in regular games had been turbo-boosted into madness. True, it started in 7th and made it rubbish, but Lords of War are even more game-breaking so that it now seems almost mandatory to take at least one to have some sort of chance of not having your army obliterated in the first couple of turns. It’s ridiculous - I read a White Dwarf battle report where that stupid Magnus the Red dealt 24 wounds to Logan Grimnar on his chariot and killed him in a single turn. Nothing should be that powerful in regular games - in the good old 40K I used to play with my mates at school and still play with my dad, you can have a couple of characters, a few units of troops and some vehicles and/or monsters and 9/10 times it would result in a pretty close game that lasted a good lot of turns. If you wanted to bring in your Stompa or Baneblade you could play Apocalypse where you and your opponent got to field massive armies where those huge vehicles would be much more likely to appear. Now it’s just an arms race about who brings the biggest and most OP unit to the battlefield getting to nuke their opponent’s army into oblivion. And DON’T get me started on the abomination that is Imperial Knights...
2. A focus on boring Imperium vs Chaos cr@p nothing like that in previous editions. In prior editions it was always there but it was only something Imperium and Chaos Marine players knew much about as it only featured in their codices and nowhere else. Now you can’t get away from it.
3. Instead of treating us all to brand new Codex art, GW decided to channel their inner Arkwright and recycle the cover art from the previous Codices, which looks really cheap and tacky. I’m not having two books with the same cover art just to play 6th and 8th.
4.Horrific lore changes - there’s no way that the rubbishy Blood Angels could beat the Tyranids with such overwhelming odds - GW could easily have got the Tyranids to devour Baal and still have the Blood Angels as a few surviving remnants running away as they always do, but no, they have to keep the Blood Angels players happy. Absolute BS.
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images
 
Aginor said:
They are probably very cheap to produce, with no high risk for GW as they most likely don't manufacture them themselves, they just gave the maker the license and market them.
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Precisely. No risk at all on GW's part. Basically free money and exposure.
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
The focus on having so-called ‘Lords of War’ in regular games had been turbo-boosted into madness. True, it started in 7th and made it rubbish, but Lords of War are even more game-breaking so that it now seems almost mandatory to take at least one to have some sort of chance of not having your army obliterated in the first couple of turns. It’s ridiculous - I read a White Dwarf battle report where that stupid Magnus the Red dealt 24 wounds to Logan Grimnar on his chariot and killed him in a single turn. Nothing should be that powerful in regular games - in the good old 40K I used to play with my mates at school and still play with my dad, you can have a couple of characters, a few units of troops and some vehicles and/or monsters and 9/10 times it would result in a pretty close game that lasted a good lot of turns. If you wanted to bring in your Stompa or Baneblade you could play Apocalypse where you and your opponent got to field massive armies where those huge vehicles would be much more likely to appear. Now it’s just an arms race about who brings the biggest and most OP unit to the battlefield getting to nuke their opponent’s army into oblivion. And DON’T get me started on the abomination that is Imperial Knights...
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Regular games as in 2000-2500pts?

Whilst I have seen armies of that size include Lords of War, it's generally a waste of points to take one while below 3000pts when you can instead field an army with more attacks and wounds per point. Imperial Knights have no other option of course, except they kind of do if the army is mostly comprised of armigers.
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
As for your question, I’ll give you plenty of reasons why 8th Edition is bad:

(snip)
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I see.
Well, i was able to see youst the last days of 7th, when madness was supreme from that point of view… so 8th was fresh air… even if I agree that many things were just stupid since the beginning (Baal, as you said, and even primaris - for my tastes).

We suffer the presence of LoW - Knights, but we're a large group and in our meta we play:
- a sufficiently consistent number of Apocalypse games, where LoW can be fielded en masse.
- a sufficient number of standard games, where we limit ourselves. I have a single errant knight, and i refuse to play it in lower-than-2000 pts games.
- shooting is overpowered, so we play with lots of terrains and we houserule that the first floor of the buildings block LOS
 
ChapterAquila92 said:
Whilst I have seen armies of that size include Lords of War, it's generally a waste of points to take one while below 3000pts when you can instead field an army with more attacks and wounds per point. Imperial Knights have no other option of course, except they kind of do if the army is mostly comprised of armigers.
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The bonus points in fielding a single basic IK at 2000, are that:
- it's still an effective and dangerous unit that cannot be ignored (at worst, it acts as a distraction carnifex)
- it takes less than 1/4 of your point, and with >1500 pts the rest of your army can still be filled with useful things
- you can focus your abilities to keep it alive. No doubt on "which knight will get Rotate Ion Shield?", and so on.
 
Deed525 said:
Meh not a big fan of hordes (gobbos have a few big downfalls too)

I prefer big nasty monsters and cunning tricks :)
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On paper i love hordes. But in real play they are a pain to move and handle.
So I tend to favor monsters and small, fast units. Good mobility is by far my preferred playstyle... possibly supported by some nice shooting
 
@Killer Angel - indeed, I can write a horde list and be happy with how it looks and roughly how it would act...but in play it would fall apart quickly and yes buying/painting then moving said horde is a right ball ache!

@Crowsfoot - I’m jealous, those Troggs looks great.
I’ve toyed around with a full trogg list but I just can’t settle on any, the boss is cool but I just don’t like him enough - and of course you need him in an army + general to make the other troggs battleline, I think if the hag could do that then she would certainly be a much better cost burn, those 300 points on one ‘ok’ trogg could pretty much get you 6x pretty good base trolls.
- Also what kind of Squigs, there’s a fair few now :D?

I’ve gone with manglers as my staple (those guys have crazy damage output) supported by 3-4 3x fellwater trogg units which in turn are supported by a spider and spore shaman to buff with -1 (making -2) to hit them and always attack first (spells; sneaky distraction and itchy nuisance) could
Make for some seriously tough trolls.
A few other little tricks in there as well for
Poops n giggles - but mostly a hammer and anvil kind of army.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
You really cycle through armies/models don't you!? ;)
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I do, purely from a painting view, the Ironjawz have sat in a drawer for over 12 months, also I'm selling the SCE I painted the test model and it didn't do anything for me and I think the Nighthaunt are going as well.

I'm really getting to the point of no return with large batches of models, I can't be bothered any more.

I've painted a test model for the Ironjawz and I can't see me painting them, (even though I themed the ardboys as punks) I want to improve my painting more than I want to game.

The Warpainter (converted warchanter) is one of the best paint jobs I've done, didn't take long but I have tried new things on it.

Pics in my blog this week.
 
Crowsfoot said:
I do, purely from a painting view, the Ironjawz have sat in a drawer for over 12 months, also I'm selling the SCE I painted the test model and it didn't do anything for me and I think the Nighthaunt are going as well.

I'm really getting to the point of no return with large batches of models, I can't be bothered any more.

I've painted a test model for the Ironjawz and I can't see me painting them, (even though I themed the ardboys as punks) I want to improve my painting more than I want to game.

The Warpainter (converted warchanter) is one of the best paint jobs I've done, didn't take long but I have tried new things on it.

Pics in my blog this week.
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Same - I rarely play these days, for me it’s about building solid army lists (that could preform well) convert as many as possible to my preferred style then paint as well as possible - trying to venture to new techniques.
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
As for your question, I’ll give you plenty of reasons why 8th Edition is bad: The focus on having so-called ‘Lords of War’ in regular games had been turbo-boosted into madness. True, it started in 7th and made it rubbish, but Lords of War are even more game-breaking so that it now seems almost mandatory to take at least one to have some sort of chance of not having your army obliterated in the first couple of turns. It’s ridiculous - I read a White Dwarf battle report where that stupid Magnus the Red dealt 24 wounds to Logan Grimnar on his chariot and killed him in a single turn. Nothing should be that powerful in regular games
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In fairness, in that example Magnus did first remove Grimnar's invulnerability save & then got buffed up with a strategem for extra attacks. That probably slightly skewed the damage output there from the norm....

Beyond that, from what I can see in the damage reports it doesn't seem to be too bad. There's rarely anything quite that extreme in the battlereports as far as I can remember. The last white dwarf had one with 4 Knights in em, and I don't remember any of those annihilating anything. So it doesn't seem that bad. Admittadly, the battlereports seem to largely be for fun, and not with super optimized cheese, so that might still be a difference. But it doesn't seem too bad based on those.
 
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