Lizardmen golden age

[Lawot]

I generally agree about 7th edition, and agree that it was all about the Slann's power. You could kit him out to really light up the enemy, or buff our combat troops to be unstoppable.

In terms of flavor, the 6th edition book was my favorite. Some of the rules weren't very functional, but it just had tons of character. Sacred Spawnings, Slann Generations, Krox charging through Skinks...good times, all. Plus, it painted a picture of a powerful civilization that understood its place in the world, whereas the 7th and 8th edition books painted the Lizardmen like a fallen society that only superstitiously carries out its rituals and wars.

I'll also note that I think 7th edition AB under 8th edition BRB was the heyday for combat-oriented, combined-arms lists. Those who were playing Skink Clouds had a great time in 8th edition, and were top performers at tournaments. For those of us that played Lizardmen for heavy infantry rather than guerilla warfare, that doesn't count.

The Saurus Warriors were basically off the table through much of 8th edition, and I don't know how they fare in Age of Sigmar. I play 9th Age now, and I'm pleased to say that their heirs, the "Saurian Warriors", are finally a force worth taking. A block with spears is pretty fearsome, and even one or two little buffs can turn them into a pretty elite force.

 

[Gary_M]

If possible could someone put a pic up of the 6th and 7th edition rule books and Lizardmen army books please?

Not sure which versions I have at home. Git given an old version many years ago and would like to check.

Also, my local group appear to have started playing a bit of 6th ed (O_O) WHFB, so would like to have compatible books etc.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

5th

6th

7th

8th

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I’ve just noticed that we’ve actually been having quite a lot of Warhammer Fantasy discussion of late - the Fantasy board has seen a relative hubbub of threads pop up recently.

Long may it continue!

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

The Saurus Warriors were basically off the table through much of 8th edition

Not at my gaming group, they were the main wrecking crew with Gor-rok at the helm, but I guess that's down to the local meta and how people play.

I quite liked many of the changes made in the 8th edition AB, but I see why the army as a whole might have been more powerful with the Slann in 7th.
What I don't get is why they nerfed the Slann so much, other factions have much stronger wizards.
Mostly though I just wish they would have made the Carnosaur better, but I will settle for Gor-rok.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

What I don't get is why they nerfed the Slann so much, other factions have much stronger wizards.

The Slann is still a very potent choice in 8th edition. He isn't nearly as squishy as other wizards. Has a great selection of lores and special casting abilities. He has great leadership and can be the army's BSB. He may be expensive, but he is worth the cost. The BSB savings (not having to field a second character strictly to be a BSB) is already huge, and on top of that the Slann can take a magical standard on top of other magic items! Still one of the best casters in the game.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

The Slann is still a very potent choice in 8th edition. He isn't nearly as squishy as other wizards. Has a great selection of lores and special casting abilities. He has great leadership and can be the army's BSB. He may be expensive, but he is worth the cost. The BSB savings (not having to field a second character strictly to be a BSB) is already huge, and on top of that the Slann can take a magical standard on top of other magic items! Still one of the best casters in the game.

I guess you're right, it's just bothers me a bit that other armies can get some crazy bonuses to casting that the slann cannot, which seems weird lore-wise, just look at Teclis.
Furthermore Slann can't get loremaster for the basic lores anymore which seems odd.
I get that the slann comes with a lot of other great abilities that is not strictly about casting spells, it just seems weird to me that they cannot become the most powerful even if you max out on upgrades; Might be that's just because they aren't named characters.
It could be that the power of the Slann is represented through adaptability rather than raw power, and that's the explanation.

Maybe I just read to much fluff

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I guess you're right, it's just bothers me a bit that other armies can get some crazy bonuses to casting that the slann cannot, which seems weird lore-wise, just look at Teclis.

Teclis is a very special case. Lore-wise I'd personally rank him the 3rd most potent wizard ever (living Kroak would be #1 and Nagash #2). Also, as you mentioned, he is a named character.

Furthermore Slann can't get loremaster for the basic lores anymore which seems odd.

I agree that having the option to loremaster any of our available lores would be really nice. It would really help balance out our lore selections. As it stands now most people take either Wandering Deliberations or Focus of Mystery. Why have 4 spells when you can have 8 for just a very modest number of extra points?

It sucks that we only have the option for loremaster (BRB lores) on Mazdamundi.

I get that the slann comes with a lot of other great abilities that is not strictly about casting spells, it just seems weird to me that they cannot become the most powerful even if you max out on upgrades;

Don't forget that the Slann also comes with a bunch of options for great bonuses in terms of magic too:

• shift a leftover dispel die to a power die
• help mitigate the effects of a roll on the miscast table
• re-roll the first failed dispel attempt in each magic phase (this is one of my personal favourites)
• Harmonic Convergence + Channeling Staff = average of 1 power die and 1 dispel die per turn
• A choice between 9 lores or all BRB signature spells. That is a lot of choice, even if Focus of Mystery and Wander Deliberations seem to be the outright favourites. In addition, the Lore of High magic lets you swap out spells for in game customization (another of my personal favourites).

Then you have Lord Kroak who may only have one spell, but can cast it at 3 power levels any number of times and can never lose the spell for any reason. Plus he is almost completely immune to miscasts.


Don't get me wrong, it would be fun to have access to even more powerful Slann (at an appropriate level of points cost of course). I just don't think that we have it that bad in 8th. Personally I miss the Slann generations from the 6th edition book. Slann felt to be very potent and special in that edition... let alone Lord Kroak (although he wasn't worth his points).

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

Harmonic Convergence + Channeling Staff = average of 1 power die and 1 dispel die per turn

How did I never see that synergy

But yeah I think you are correct, there is just something that does not sit right with me having the likes of Teclis (a warmblood) be stronger than our Slann.

Also it's just that when I compare the slann in 8th to 7th the options seem strictly worse, though I do get that some of the options from the 7th edition book with 8th edition rules were a bit broken.
Also I don't see why there need to be a limit in total point value for disciplines. Also why don't we have something that directly buffs our casting, I mean that extra die we could get with 7th was too much, but would it have hurt much to make us able to effectively make the Slann lv 5 mages? There is even an item i the BRB that does that. Sure you could then take both and pretty much be a lv 6 wizard, but if the discipline and item would cost the same, that would be as much as an oldblood costs, and then what is most effective?
I guess I would just like the option.

This just turned into a little brainstorm on changes I would like, but at the end of the day I do quite like our Slann, I'm just always looking to change stuff I guess.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

How did I never see that synergy

It's one of the best ones we have... something to use in your next game!

Also it's just that when I compare the slann in 8th to 7th the options seem strictly worse, though I do get that some of the options from the 7th edition book with 8th edition rules were a bit broken.

They had to nerf the Slann. The magic system of 8th edition was too good for our 7th edition Slann. For a while we were top tier based purely on Slann magic dominance

Also why don't we have something that directly buffs our casting, I mean that extra die we could get with 7th was too much, but would it have hurt much to make us able to effectively make the Slann lv 5 mages?

The book of Asur makes a Slann almost a level 5 wizard (it just doesn't grant us a 5th spell). A pseudo level 6 wizard would be fun... TK can pull it off with Arkhan the Black + Heirotitan (on average that combo gives you +7 when casting).

This just turned into a little brainstorm on changes I would like, but at the end of the day I do quite like our Slann, I'm just always looking to change stuff I guess.

I feel the same way in regards to some of our units. For me it is usually the Kroxigor that I wish to tweak.

 

[Killer Angel]

But yeah I think you are correct, there is just something that does not sit right with me having the likes of Teclis (a warmblood) be stronger than our Slann.

Teclis was also a high elf... he's around since a very long time

The book of Asur makes a Slann almost a level 5 wizard (it just doesn't grant us a 5th spell).

ah, the good old Book of Ashur + Wandering Deliberation = MAGICAL MACHINE GUN!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

ah, the good old Book of Ashur + Wandering Deliberation = MAGICAL MACHINE GUN!

Expensive but good!


I never found the points the field the Book of Ashur. It would pair well with the low casting costs of the signature spells.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

It's one of the best ones we have... something to use in your next game!

I will certainly have to try it out, now that I know it exists.

They had to nerf the Slann. The magic system of 8th edition was too good for our 7th edition Slann. For a while we were top tier based purely on Slann magic dominance

That is understandable of course, I would just have liked a more spicey/interesting selection of Disciplines in general. I am very happy about how the rest of the army changed in 8th so it's not bad at all broadly speaking.

I feel the same way in regards to some of our units. For me it is usually the Kroxigor that I wish to tweak.

Maybe this is not the thread for it, but how would you change them? What is lacking?

Teclis was also a high elf... he's around since a very long time

But he is an elf, not a "friendly" fat toad. My second army is High Elves but I think he seems way too powerful, along with Tyrion.

ah, the good old Book of Ashur + Wandering Deliberation = MAGICAL MACHINE GUN!

Worth a try at some point.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Maybe this is not the thread for it, but how would you change them? What is lacking?

I really like the unit, but feel that they are a bit underwhelming on the tabletop. There are a couple of upgrades I like to see them get, including the option for full command. Additionally, I think they would benefit from either having their scaly skin upgraded to (3+) or have their toughness increased to 5 (but an increase in toughness would likely require a slight increase in their points cost as well).

In any event, what I would really love for them to have above all would be a hero and/or lord level character. It could be a special character like Nakai or even better yet, a generic choice with options to take magic items. Some character support would really make the unit awesome.

But he is an elf, not a "friendly" fat toad. My second army is High Elves but I think he seems way too powerful, along with Tyrion.

I agree, Teclis is definitely too powerful.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

There are a couple of upgrades I like to see them get, including the option for full command. Additionally, I think they would benefit from either having their scaly skin upgraded to (3+) or have their toughness increased to 5 (but an increase in toughness would likely require a slight increase in their points cost as well).

In any event, what I would really love for them to have above all would be a hero and/or lord level character. It could be a special character like Nakai or even better yet, a generic choice with options to take magic items. Some character support would really make the unit awesome.

I like those changes. Personally I would go with the toughness change.
I think Nakai as a support hero could be very cool. Maybe any Kroxigor hero could have it so they could not be the army general, seeing as they are not the smartest among the Lizardmen.

I don't know how F/C (Full Command) would be done in terms of fluff though. Maybe make it so they can't get F/C but a hero Kroxigor gives the same benefits as a banner and musician, that way he supports the unit a lot that without doing anything overpowered.

It would be awesome to make our own army book, nothing major, just tweaks here and there. Sadly I doubt if anyone would play against it.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I don't know how F/C (Full Command) would be done in terms of fluff though.

You'd have to have a skink playing some music and another waving a flag. A small diminutive skink on the bases of a couple of Kroxigors could work.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I like those changes. Personally I would go with the toughness change.
I think Nakai as a support hero could be very cool. Maybe any Kroxigor hero could have it so they could not be the army general, seeing as they are not the smartest among the Lizardmen.

I don't know how F/C (Full Command) would be done in terms of fluff though. Maybe make it so they can't get F/C but a hero Kroxigor gives the same benefits as a banner and musician, that way he supports the unit a lot that without doing anything overpowered.

It would be awesome to make our own army book, nothing major, just tweaks here and there. Sadly I doubt if anyone would play against it.

You'd have to have a skink playing some music and another waving a flag. A small diminutive skink on the bases of a couple of Kroxigors could work.

Or you could give the Kroxigors the drum and banner pole from the Minotaur box and then Lizardify them - they should be the appropriate size

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Or you could give the Kroxigors the drum and banner pole from the Minotaur box and then Lizardify them - they should be the appropriate size

That's true, but fluff-wise it doesn't make sense for Kroxigors to be playing musical instruments or holding standards since they are not very intelligent. Even their great weapons need to be chained to their wrists so they don't forget and leave them behind.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

Or you could give the Kroxigors the drum and banner pole from the Minotaur box and then Lizardify them - they should be the appropriate size

Nice idea, the only problem I think is that the Kroxigor models do not stand appropriately for the banner (if i've seen the correct one that is).

What about just stating that the weapon has airholes so that when the kroxigor swings it, it makes a loud sound?
With that logic I guess one of their weapons could just be made fancy looking and be the banner, though maybe that is too boring.
Or the "banner" could be that the Kroxigor has warpaint on it, which makes the other Kroxigor notice it more.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Or the "banner" could be that the Kroxigor has warpaint on it, which makes the other Kroxigor notice it more.

I like that one!