Live action remake of Aladdin? Good idea or bad idea? Plus tangents on Disney

[Scalenex]

My favorite Disney animated film is Aladdin.

Now that I'm an adult and I over-analyze cartoons I'm no longer sure Aladdin was objectively a great movie. See this movie came out when I was about ten year old. That was young enough to retain my childhood wonder but old enough to get most of the more nuanced jokes and references. Maybe nostalgia made this movie better. Though I do think it had the best sound track. It's the only one where I like ALL the songs though maybe I'll give props to Moulan which had a solid soundtrack. I'm pretty sure Moulan had a smaller portion of music than any other Disney movie. One of the things that made it a solid movie was that the music literally stopped when the plot got dark and serious. I haven't seen Moana yet, but so far I think Moulan is the only Disney movie where the heroine is an excellent role model. Maybe because Moulan is the only Disney princess that is not actually a princess.

So Disney made so much money on Beauty and the Beast that it's almost impossible for them to not make a live action remake of all their animated classics.

I hear the live action Jungle Book remake was good but I'm not going to watch it till it shows up on a streaming service I have. Basically when Disney gets their streaming service up, I'm going to sign up for one or two months a year, binge watch everything of interest, then unsubscribe.

So Will Smith is cast as the genie. I like Will Smith. He has done a lot of things I like. He also did After Earth and Suicide Squad. It wasn't Will Smith that ruined Suicide Squad (that took the work of many people), but I do hope After Earth teaches him to never write a screenplay a gain. That's on you, Will!.

He is one of the best contemporary actors today but he is not perfect. And following up on Robin Williams playing the genie would be very tough. Like following up on Heath Ledger's Joker performance only worse. While Heath Ledger is considered by a plurality of Batman fans as the best Joker, there were lots of Jokers. Robin Williams is the only genie people really remember.

If at all possible, you don't want to follow success, you want to follow failure.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

My favorite Disney animated film is Aladdin.

Now that I'm an adult and I over-analyze cartoons I'm no longer sure Aladdin was objectively a great movie. See this movie came out when I was about ten year old. That was young enough to retain my childhood wonder but old enough to get most of the more nuanced jokes and references. Maybe nostalgia made this movie better. Though I do think it had the best sound track. It's the only one where I like ALL the songs though maybe I'll give props to Moulan which had a solid soundtrack. I'm pretty sure Moulan had a smaller portion of music than any other Disney movie. One of the things that made it a solid movie was that the music literally stopped when the plot got dark and serious. I haven't seen Moana yet, but so far I think Moulan is the only Disney movie where the heroine is an excellent role model. Maybe because Moulan is the only Disney princess that is not actually a princess.

So Disney made so much money on Beauty and the Beast that it's almost impossible for them to not make a live action remake of all their animated classics.

I hear the live action Jungle Book remake was good but I'm not going to watch it till it shows up on a streaming service I have. Basically when Disney gets their streaming service up, I'm going to sign up for one or two months a year, binge watch everything of interest, then unsubscribe.

So Will Smith is cast as the genie. I like Will Smith. He has done a lot of things I like. He also did After Earth and Suicide Squad. It wasn't Will Smith that ruined Suicide Squad (that took the work of many people), but I do hope After Earth teaches him to never write a screenplay a gain. That's on you, Will!.

He is one of the best contemporary actors today but he is not perfect. And following up on Robin Williams playing the genie would be very tough. Like following up on Heath Ledger's Joker performance only worse. While Heath Ledger is considered by a plurality of Batman fans as the best Joker, there were lots of Jokers. Robin Williams is the only genie people really remember.

If at all possible, you don't want to follow success, you want to follow failure.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but I just disagree on the whole idea of Disney simply churning out live action remakes of their animated classics. It’s just so unoriginal, not to mention sometimes sacrilegious to the original films - Kaa is male for Gods’ sakes! - and I just see it all as a cheap cash grab idea to stuff in between various princess films for the fangirls.

 

[Aginor]

Well.....

As I have kids I have watched a lot of cartoons lately so I feel qualified for this one.
Here are some notes:

- I really like the songs from Frozen. I also really like the characters, especially Anna (although she is a Princess) for several reasons. IMO one of the best Disney movies ever, in many regards
- Moana is nice. It is full of pop culture references, nice enough songs, and a few fun characters. And yeah the main heroine is not a princess. It is no Frozen but IMO it is one of the better Disney movies.
- I don't like Will Smith. I used to like him in his first movies but lately he comes across as too arrogant and self important, and the movies reflect it. That almost ruined iRobot for me, for example.
- I think it is unnecessary and kinda boring to make live action movies based on animated movies. Sure, some of them are entertaining, but I prefer original stuff to using old IPs.
- I never liked Aladdin, no clue why. Perhaps I just knew too much about the real culture (and stories) it is a caricature of, and disliked it for that reason

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

My favorite Disney animated film is Aladdin.

Now that I'm an adult and I over-analyze cartoons I'm no longer sure Aladdin was objectively a great movie. See this movie came out when I was about ten year old. That was young enough to retain my childhood wonder but old enough to get most of the more nuanced jokes and references. Maybe nostalgia made this movie better.

I think Aladdin was a fun movie and still enjoy it to this day. Not my favourite Disney movie, but it is fairly high on the list.

I'll give props to Moulan which had a solid soundtrack. I'm pretty sure Moulan had a smaller portion of music than any other Disney movie. One of the things that made it a solid movie was that the music literally stopped when the plot got dark and serious. I haven't seen Moana yet, but so far I think Moulan is the only Disney movie where the heroine is an excellent role model. Maybe because Moulan is the only Disney princess that is not actually a princess.

No way that Mulan takes this guy in a fight (it ruins the movie for me):

As for the main question of the thread, it is really no surprise at all. It is an easy money making machine for them. I have only a passing interest in it myself. Movies that I will check out on Netflix when they get there.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

No way that Mulan takes this guy in a fight (it ruins the movie for me):

I agree here even though I’ve never seen Mulan - a young girl would never be able to take out a hulking great Mongol warlord, or even any other fighter with his sorts of strengths. A bit of artistic licencing.

As for the main question of the thread, it is really no surprise at all. It is an easy money making machine for them.

That’s all it appears to be for me, and that’s why it puts me off seeing them.

- I really like the songs from Frozen. I also really like the characters, especially Anna (although she is a Princess) for several reasons. IMO one of the best Disney movies ever, in many regards

I respect your opinion mate, but I just couldn’t disagree more with this. Moving on.

- Moana is nice. It is full of pop culture references, nice enough songs, and a few fun characters. And yeah the main heroine is not a princess. It is no Frozen but IMO it is one of the better Disney movies.

I have to say that Moaner puts me off seeing it like Star Wars Rebels did, albeit for different reasons. Rebels put me off seeing it because it was, to me, a kids version of the OT with different, younger protagonists. Moaner puts me off simply because I have no interest whatsoever in Pacific Islander culture.

- I don't like Will Smith. I used to like him in his first movies but lately he comes across as too arrogant and self important, and the movies reflect it. That almost ruined iRobot for me, for example.

I only know Will Smith from Shark Tale, so I can’t really say anything here.

- I think it is unnecessary and kinda boring to make live action movies based on animated movies. Sure, some of them are entertaining, but I prefer original stuff to using old IPs.

Agreed 100% here. Disney really need to start making more stuff in the style of Zootropolis - now that’s a good film. Certainly their best in years.

- I never liked Aladdin, no clue why. Perhaps I just knew too much about the real culture (and stories) it is a caricature of, and disliked it for that reason

I watched it once but for some reason it never really got me excited, which is strange because I like Hercules, which was released a couple of years before and has the same 90s feel, but I thought Aladdin was ultimately forgettable.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I agree here even though I’ve never seen Mulan - a young girl would never be able to take out a hulking great Mongol warlord, or even any other fighter with his sorts of strengths. A bit of artistic licencing.

Best scene in the movie...

 

[Aginor]

Will Smith from Shark Tale,

I really disliked the whole movie, and that's especially true for Will Smith.

It is OK to disagree about that, and also about Frozen. We just have very different taste concerning Disney movies I guess.

Oh btw: singing in animated (Disney and others) movies: yay or nay?
Me personally: Nay. In most movies I outright despise the songs and skip them when possible. There are very few I like, some are just good enough to be tolerable but I don't enjoy them.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Best scene in the movie...

Hold on a minute, are they Huns then? That’s just makes no sense. The Huns ravaged Rome but they never went near China, at least as far as I know. It was the Mongols who did to China what the Huns did to Rome. To be fair they do look more like Mongols than Huns, especially with the leader flying his falcon around. Maybe they just got the race name wrong.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Oh btw: singing in animated (Disney and others) movies: yay or nay?
Me personally: Nay. In most movies I outright despise the songs and skip them when possible. There are very few I like, some are just good enough to be tolerable but I don't enjoy them.

I would mostly say nay, especially with the most recent films (“Let it Go” is more dire than a Dire Wolf in the direst of winters), but I like some of the ones from Hercules and the Emperor’s New Groove.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I really disliked the whole movie, and that's especially true for Will Smith.

I mostly enjoy Shark Tale purely for Jack Black’s performance - although Lenny isn’t his best character, and is nothing compared to Po from Kung Fu Panda, but Lenny still acts as a bit of a milestone as his first animated character, he probably has the most comedic moments and being a vegetarian myself I like his desperation to save other creatures rather than eat them

 

[Aginor]

Fun fact: I actually didn't dislike "Let it go" initially. By far not the best song from that movie but in the "tolerable" category for me.

....the first 20 times I heard it.
But I have a daughter who LOVES it. She is 3 and it is her favourite song.
Turns out that after the 200th time I don't like it anymore. At all.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Hold on a minute, are they Huns then? That’s just makes no sense. The Huns ravaged Rome but they never went near China, at least as far as I know. It was the Mongols who did to China what the Huns did to Rome. To be fair they do look more like Mongols than Huns, especially with the leader flying his falcon around. Maybe they just got the race name wrong.

From what I have read, the great wall of China was finally unified/completed with the purpose of protecting against the Huns (along with other tribes). Also, keep in mind that the Huns originate from Mongolia and eventually migrated into modern day Hungary, from were they would launch attacks into the rest of the surrounding area including Rome.

 

[Aginor]

From what I have read, the great wall of China was finally unified/completed with the purpose of protecting against the Huns (along with other tribes). Also, keep in mind that the Huns originate from Mongolia and eventually migrated into modern day Hungary, from were they would launch attacks into the rest of the surrounding area including Rome.

That is... probably true but not very likely.
The more likely variant is that they lived in central Asia and may have themselves migrated west because of the Mongols.

But then... it is a Disney movie. Not a single one of them gets anything historical right. They "borrow" stuff from everywhere and warp it around until nothing fits together anymore. Basically all of their stories are rip-offs. Sometimes good ones though.
Examples are plenty.

 

[Aginor]

Uhh...
I just watched a YouTube video about the origins of Disney movie stories (nothing new to me sadly) and realized that probably many people really don't know.

I know many of the originals from - actually pretty gruesome- children stories that some people still considered appropriate for children in the 80s (at least in Germany) but a quick search shows that some of them are apparently not as well known in other countries.
Some are based on novels from the 19th century or earlier.

So question for y'all:
Do you know some - or all of - the original stories that Disney used?

Hans Christian Andersen for example wrote
The Little Mermaid and The Snow Queen. And both don't end well.

Rapunzel, Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty and some others are Grimm Brothers stories, so those are very old and pretty grim.

Pinocchio was written in the 19th century and is incredibly violent.

Pocahontas is a real story. Not a nice one though.

Winnie Pooh is... outright sad. And so is the original Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Aladdin is based on One Thousand and One Nights, an old arabic collection of stories.

Peter Pan and the Jungle Book are also quite old. And quite different to the Disney version.


Many of the stories were changed in a rather extreme way. Some of the characters are even villains although in the originals they are the good guys, or vice versa.

 

[Scalenex]

It’s just so unoriginal, not to mention sometimes sacrilegious to the original films - Kaa is male for Gods’ sakes!

I think this was a conservative makeover. If you re-watch the original Kaa sort of comes off a bit as a pervert. I think there were hoping it was less creepy with a female Kaa. Also, they were able to get a semi-famous female voice actress.

and I just see it all as a cheap cash grab idea.

Well roughly 90% of movies are cash grabs. The remaining 10% are fishing for Oscars or are a passion project for a director or actor who is doing it for fun.

- I really like the songs from Frozen. I also really like the characters, especially Anna (although she is a Princess) for several reasons. IMO one of the best Disney movies ever, in many regards

Frozen is commercially successful and Disney has had a dry spell of commercially successful animated movies. And it's well animated and has some catchy songs. Plus a song about cutting ice no one likes.

Frozen suffers upon scrutiny because the original fairy tale and if rumors are true the original screenplay made Elsa the villain. First Elsa left her kingdom with no rulers for about two years, then she froze her people for three years. Then she sang a song about how she didn't care about her responsibilities or the feelings of others. In some ways this is a story that is a metaphor for how a kingdom suffers when the king or queen goes mad and there is no one to reign in their excesses.

Then you mixed in a feel good story about sisterly love plus a will-they won't they romance. Wheeee! Plot holes and shifts in tone. There are more nitpicks but I will leave them out.

That almost ruined iRobot for me, for example.

I liked iRobot. It's not the greatest movie ever but I found it entertaining. My friend tells me I have a low threshold for enjoying a movie.

- I think it is unnecessary and kinda boring to make live action movies based on animated movies. Sure, some of them are entertaining, but I prefer original stuff to using old IPs.

I'll watch the remakes as long as I don't have to pay more than $2 or $3 to watch them. Ideally free.

I watched it once but for some reason it never really got me excited, which is strange because I like Hercules, which was released a couple of years before and has the same 90s feel, but I thought Aladdin was ultimately forgettable.

I watched it once but for some reason it never really got me excited, which is strange because I like Hercules, which was released a couple of years before and has the same 90s feel, but I thought Aladdin was ultimately forgettable.

I guess I was (and am) a huge mythology buff, so I didn't like Hercules for ignoring so much source material. Though I figured it wasn't just me because Hercules was less well-received, it's songs are not still sung, and it made a lot less money.

No way that Mulan takes this guy in a fight (it ruins the movie for me):

In this case Mulan is a victim of it's own excellence. I think the villain in this movie was one of the most realistic. If you overlook Eddie Murphy playing a small talking dragon, Mulan is the darkest and more realistic Disney movie besides maybe Hunchback of Notre Dame. Mulan fighting a much larger man seems less weird than Rapulnzel using her hair like a rope and grappling hook. Because of the realism of the setting, it seems unrealistic where Mulan beats a larger man whereas half of Merida's family turning into bears does not seem unrealistic.

I like that Mulan didn't wait on another character to save her. I especially like that she had to train to become strong. Unlike say a certain Star Wars heroine. In Frozen, both Anna and Elsa had a wide skill set for people who barely ever left their rooms. Including being able to drive a sled better than a man who group up in the snowy woods. Or a small bunny taking down much larger animals in a boxing match.

Agreed 100% here. Disney really need to start making more stuff in the style of Zootropolis - now that’s a good film. Certainly their best in years.

Certainly it was a good movie. It had it's flaws. The biggest was their metaphors were inconsistent. Perhaps Wisecrack went too deep but the movie suffered because they kept flip flopping. Are the herbivores being oppressed by an elitist predatory minority or are predators being oppressed by the numerous herbivores? The main plot was the scheme to demonize the predators BUT they wouldn't let up on the protagonist suffering for prejudices against bunnies.

....the first 20 times I heard it.

You can have too much of anything.

I know many of the originals from - actually pretty gruesome- children stories that some people still considered appropriate for children in the 80s (at least in Germany) but a quick search shows that some of them are apparently not as well known in other countries.

Disney has made every story they get lighter and less gruesome.

Cinderella: The wicked stepmother told her daughters to mutilate their feet so they could fit the slipper. This almost worked but the blood gave them away.

Sleeping Beauty: The prince didn't just kiss her. She woke up with children.

Little Mermaid: Ariel was so unaccustomed to her new legs that every step was agony. When she failed to win the prince's love, the witch offered to break her curse if she murdered him. Ariel refused and turned to sea foam and died when the enchantment expired.

Pinocchio: The children turned into donkeys were sent to a glue factory and killed. Even in the animated movie, they never tried to rescue the other children or stop the crazy villain.

Rapulnzel: The witch stole Rapulnzel's hair to trick the prince and blind him.

Snow White was okay as far as I know. You can argue that a sleeping woman cannot give consent to being kissed but in this case it was more like resuscitating someone with CPR. Note that was Disney's first major animated movie, so they didn't think to twist it.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

If you re-watch the original Kaa sort of comes off a bit as a pervert. I think there were hoping it was less creepy with a female Kaa.

The double standard of society.

Mulan fighting a much larger man seems less weird than Rapulnzel using her hair like a rope and grappling hook. Because of the realism of the setting, it seems unrealistic where Mulan beats a larger man whereas half of Merida's family turning into bears does not seem unrealistic.

The problem isn't just with the size difference, which is already substantial on its own. Shan Yu would have been training his entire life, decades of brutal training in the harshest of environments. They also massively differ in terms of actual combat experience (on top of the already mentioned training), Shan Yu would have taken part in countless fights, battles, raids and wars. Shan Yu being the leader of the Huns (and being extremely respected) likely means that he was the strongest and fiercest warrior out of a group of warriors that are already extremely strong and fierce. Shan Yu also has a warrior's mentality, Mulan does not.

On the flip side, Mulan started training much later in life, is physically weaker and an inexperienced warrior. All she has is a training montage alongside a catchy song.

I love a good underdog story, but the deficit was simply too much. I would have preferred a scenario where she outplayed him in some unexpected fashion in order to gain a substantial advantage and level the playing field (just like she had done on the mountainside earlier in the movie, that was well executed).

Unlike say a certain Star Wars heroine.

I wonder who that could be?

 

[pendrake]

Having “thoroughly” skimmed this thread...

Moulan —vs— Mulan ?? What’s the deal with the spelling difference? (Maybe? I would know if I had ever seen any version of the material.)


Will Smith as the genie. An aging Fresh Prince of Bellaire trying to reprise Robin Williams at his best. Sounds a little dubious. It could work. I think I’d like it if he was a bit more the evile Djinn. (edited to add: A nice twist would be if he was the Genie of the Ring instead of the Genie of the Lamp...)


Doing a live action film employing all the 20th Century tropes the not-muslim western world came up with about the pre-muslim Arabic world? Sounds like poor timing. Given all the vicious real world warfare emanating from the general zone of Aladdin’s historic stomping grounds I can think of more groups that would despise the film than I can imagine liking it.


But I like Al Muktar’s desert dogs.


Aladdin in a more Arabic spelling is what: Al’Ladin? Ladin... good thing that is an obscure family name.

 

[pendrake]

If Disney wanted to be original...



...they could go all the way back to a very early version of the story.

Like this

Aladdin is an impoverished young ne'er-do-well, dwelling in "one of the cities of China". He is recruited by a sorcerer from the Maghreb, who passes himself off as the brother of Aladdin's late father, Mustapha the tailor, convincing Aladdin and his mother of his good will by pretending to set up the lad as a wealthy merchant. The sorcerer's real motive is to persuade young Aladdin to retrieve a wonderful oil lamp from a booby-trapped magic cave. After the sorcerer attempts to double-cross him, Aladdin finds himself trapped in the cave. Aladdin is still wearing a magic ring the sorcerer has lent him. When he rubs his hands in despair, he inadvertently rubs the ring and a jinnī (or "genie") appears who releases him from the cave so that he can return to his mother—still carrying the lamp. When his mother tries to clean the lamp, so they can sell it to buy food for their supper, a second far more powerful genie appears who is bound to do the bidding of the person holding the lamp.

With the aid of the genie of the lamp, Aladdin becomes rich and powerful and marries Princess Badroulbadour, the sultan's daughter (after magically foiling her marriage to the vizier's son). The genie builds Aladdin and his bride a wonderful palace, far more magnificent than the sultan's.

The sorcerer hears of Aladdin's good fortune, and returns; he gets his hands on the lamp by tricking Aladdin's wife (who is unaware of the lamp's importance) by offering to exchange "new lamps for old". He orders the genie of the lamp to take the palace, along with all its contents, to his home in the Maghreb. Aladdin still has the magic ring and is able to summon the lesser genie. The genie of the ring cannot directly undo any of the magic of the genie of the lamp, but he is able to transport Aladdin to the Maghreb where, with the help of the "woman's wiles" of the princess he recovers the lamp and slays the sorcerer, returning the palace to its proper place...

Got that ^ from the Wikipedia article. There’s more material there. The excerpt above might be too much to cram into one screenplay.

Where is Mahgreb? I mean Maghreb...

 

[Aginor]

Plus a song about cutting ice no one likes.

I like it!

Hercules for ignoring so much source material.

Oh dear I even forgot about that movie. Yeah it was painful.

Where is Mahgreb? I mean Maghreb

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maghreb
The word basically means "west"



Oh and nice list of Disney changes @Scalenex
I'd like to add a few other fun ones:
- Kaa is a friend of Mowgli, not an enemy.

- in the original Hunchback basically everyone dies.

- Snow White is not cured by a kiss. The prince drops her casket and the apple part she bit off falls out of her mouth and she wakes up

- Pinocchio KILLS the talking cricket!

- Peter Pan is not really a good character. He is very chaotic though. He does stuff like killing some of his friends by switching sides during a battle, to "make it more interesting"

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I think this was a conservative makeover. If you re-watch the original Kaa sort of comes off a bit as a pervert. I think there were hoping it was less creepy with a female Kaa. Also, they were able to get a semi-famous female voice actress.

Seriously? The voice actor for Kaa also later voiced Winnie the Pooh, and I honestly feel there’s nothing perverted about him. Also if they’re making Kaa a villain surely they should be trying to make him as creepy as possible to give the audience a reason to dislike him. He wouldn’t be a good villain if he didn’t have any dislikeable traits. He doesn’t look that creepy and isn’t as violent or malicious as Shere Khan so they have to make him creepy in other ways to make him more dislikeable as a villain. I honestly feel that making Kaa female is a sign of feminist influence in branches of Disney other than LucasFilm - why else would they make such a big character change?

Kaa is a friend of Mowgli, not an enemy.

I just looked this up and I have to admit that would have been good to see Kaa as a good guy. I think the reason that’s they made Kaa a villain in the original was because humans have always associated snakes as evil, and that it just resonates more with the human soul to portray a snake that’s evil and wants to eat Mowgli compared to a snake that’s wise and helpful to him. I’m far more concerned by the idea of changing Kaa’s gender than his alignment.

I guess I was (and am) a huge mythology buff, so I didn't like Hercules for ignoring so much source material. Though I figured it wasn't just me because Hercules was less well-received, it's songs are not still sung, and it made a lot less money.

Oh dear I even forgot about that movie. Yeah it was painful.

OK, I know Hercules is not very mythologically accurate at all, but I take that with salt when watching it. The Hydra fight sequence is good, there are a lot of Mickey-takes of ‘celeb-culture’ and you've got to love James Woods’ performance of Hades - even though Hades wasn’t the villain in the actual myths, he was a more obvious choice because he is the god of Death and James Woods makes him truly steal the show as the conniving, devious character who likes his deals. Also it wouldn’t have been a good idea to go into the whole plot of Zeus’ adultery, Hera’s jealousy and Hercules killing his wife and family in a rage induced by Hera. Remember that they had to try and shoehorn in all the 12 tasks into one film somehow. Yes there is a lot of 90s American dialogue that just doesn’t sound right but I can stomach it to see Phil’s and Hades’ great lines.