8th Ed. 1000 Lizardmen vs. HE/Empire

[Caledrith]

Hi everyone!

I apologize for disturbing the calm jungle that is your army list forum. I recently acquired my cousin's Lizardmen, and there aren't too many models, so I only expect to play smaller games for now. I've put together a 1000 point list and I was wondering what your C&C would be.

+ Heroes +

Skink Priest [135pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2
. Magic Items: AB - The Cloak of Feathers

+ Core +

Saurus Warriors [220pts]
. 20x Saurus Warrior: 20x Spears

Skink Cohort [50pts]: 10x Skink

Skink Cohort [50pts]: 10x Skink

Skink Cohort [50pts]: 10x Skink

+ Special +

Ripperdactyl Riders [120pts]: 3x Ripperdactyl Rider

Stegadon [215pts]

+ Rare +

Salamander Hunting Pack [80pts]: Salamander Hunting Pack

Salamander Hunting Pack [80pts]: Salamander Hunting Pack

++ Total: [1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I always feel like magic is necessary, and as I don't have a wonderful unit to protect my skin priest, I figured making him fly around may be a wise idea. I know Salamanders absolutely rip through low T units, so I figured a couple of them would help, and a Stegadon just seems too good to pass up.

 

[Crowsfoot]

@NIGHTBRINGER @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl @Chicken Lips @n810 might be able to comment on your list

 

[n810]

Seems ok, be sure to keep your priest in cover.
empire shooting phase can be quite nasty.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Finally, a Fantasy lists question I can properly answer - smaller games up to 2000 points are my speciality!

I’m surprised by the number of Skinks you have in there. I would take those out, especially as you’re not using them to shelter your priest - Skinks I feel would be pretty weak against Empire and HE as both of those armies have Fast Cavalry that would have a field day against small units of Skinks (Pistoliers and Ellyrian Reavers respectively), unless you don’t have any other units of Saurus. I would recommend swapping those 3 Skink units and a Salamander Pack for another Saurus unit - Saurus are the second best Core infantry unit in the game, and certainly would make mincemeat of any Empire or High Elf core infantry unit once they get into melee with them, and would be a fearsome foe for even their elite infantry to fight. Alternatively, if you are really desperate to use Skinks, I would have them as Skirmishers as they’ll be harder for the enemy to hit in shooting and you’ll be able to sneak them through terrain to take out enemy artillery and lone wizards, or as a bigger cohort unit of 20-30 as they’ll last longer.

I like the idea of using a Stegadon against High Elves, as they hate Impact Hits because they hit them before they can strike first, but against Empire I wouldn’t use one because it would be a sitting duck for cannon shots - one well-placed cannon shot that gets a good multiple wound roll means almost a quarter of your army’s points is lost instantly.

Ripperdactyl riders are a good choice against Empire as they can zoom across the board to close the distance between you and his artillery, either meaning you’ll be able to charge one of his artillery pieces first turn and kill the crew or, if he has the first turn, they will divert some of his fire away from your Saurus as he would be a complete idiot not to focus them down first to stop them trashing his artillery. They may not be such a good choice against High Elves but can still be a useful distraction that can take out any Ellyrian Reavers or bolt throwers or they can be useful in supporting a Saurus charge - all High Elf non-creature units are Toughness 3 so the Ripperdactyls’ high strength means they’ll most likely wound on 2s.

Interesting tactic of taking a Priest as leader - good idea on using the Cloak of Feathers, I do the same thing with mine, but I would use Heavens over Beasts as if he’s flying around all over the place the only unit that’s likely to benefit from it is the Ripperdactyls as they also fly. With Heavens you can fly 20” forward on your turn and then zap his artillery with a lightning bolt - a great move if your Ripperdactyls are either shot to pieces before they get into melee or there is more than one artillery piece around. I’ve been using an Oldblood with Blade of Realities in my smaller games. While this weapon is frowned upon a bit in this forum because of its huge points cost, I think it’s great as long as your Oldblood’s in a unit - it means he’ll hugely boost the unit’s combat potential and will cut out that Banner of the World Dragon nonsense that High Elves like to field as it doesn’t allow wards. Knight units will be terrified of him as he’ll be able to reliably kill about 2-3 every turn by himself, forcing them to avoid the unit of Saurus he’s in at all costs. Unfortunately it does mean that he’s up to 240 points without upgrades so you can’t have him on a Cold One because it would go over your Lords allowance, but with the Salamanders, extra Saurus and Ripperdactyls in there already you won’t have room for Saurus Cavalry anyway.

In any case, it’s a matter of simply playing around with your list until you get that winning combination. The only really vital things I would say you should change at this stage are your priest’s lore from Beasts to Heavens and those small Skink cohorts to either another Saurus unit, some Skirmisher units or a larger Cohort. Try that, and if it fails for some reason, make another post here and I’ll have a look to see if I can help you out further.

 

[airjamy]

Hi everyone!

I apologize for disturbing the calm jungle that is your army list forum. I recently acquired my cousin's Lizardmen, and there aren't too many models, so I only expect to play smaller games for now. I've put together a 1000 point list and I was wondering what your C&C would be.

+ Heroes +

Skink Priest [135pts]: Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2
. Magic Items: AB - The Cloak of Feathers

+ Core +

Saurus Warriors [220pts]
. 20x Saurus Warrior: 20x Spears

Skink Cohort [50pts]: 10x Skink

Skink Cohort [50pts]: 10x Skink

Skink Cohort [50pts]: 10x Skink

+ Special +

Ripperdactyl Riders [120pts]: 3x Ripperdactyl Rider

Stegadon [215pts]

+ Rare +

Salamander Hunting Pack [80pts]: Salamander Hunting Pack

Salamander Hunting Pack [80pts]: Salamander Hunting Pack

++ Total: [1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I always feel like magic is necessary, and as I don't have a wonderful unit to protect my skin priest, I figured making him fly around may be a wise idea. I know Salamanders absolutely rip through low T units, so I figured a couple of them would help, and a Stegadon just seems too good to pass up.

Perhaps i am a bit late to the party, but being late is better than nothing!

I agree that you have a lot of skinks if you know you are fighting the Empire, they do not shine against them. It is even weirder that you field them as Cohorts, Skirmishers are just that much better IMHO. I would drop at least one unit of them, maybe 2, to make your unit of Sauri larger and make the others into Skirmishers. The Empire is generally faster than us, and with the amount of damage Greatswords and Halberdiers (especially with a Warrior Priest in them) can dish out, your unit of Sauri will crumble before they can really hit them back. This is even more true when using spears, as you wont have a parry to mitigate the damage, and you probably won't even be able to use the spears against a dedicated Empire CC unit, making your only CC unit pretty bad.

I love double sallies in low point games (i also love them in high point games, just love them even more in low point games) as single barrages can decide games. If you can keep them alive from the cannonballs and their fast cav to get to those nice and soft Greatsword and Halberdier units, you should be able to win!

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

The Empire is generally faster than us, and with the amount of damage Greatswords and Halberdiers (especially with a Warrior Priest in them) can dish out, your unit of Sauri will crumble before they can really hit them back. This is even more true when using spears, as you wont have a parry to mitigate the damage, and you probably won't even be able to use the spears against a dedicated Empire CC unit, making your only CC unit pretty bad.

Seriously? State Troops are pretty awful if I remember rightly - typical horde troops - and Greatswords have great weapons so would Always Strike Last, so Saurus would be able to decimate them before they strike (unless they have some stupid special rule that allows them to ignore Always Strikes Last somehow, but they’re just humans so they shouldn’t). They also only have 1 attack and Strength 5 with the Great Weapon so aren’t that scary. Halberdiers may have Strength 4, but they can’t use their shields in combat (two-handed weapons) so only have a 6+ Save in melee. If you buff your Saurus with magic to make them more defensive and maybe take two units of them rather than one large one (more manoeuvrability and able to mash two of his units at once) then you should be OK. Certainly the Stegadon’s bolt thrower will be great against any hordes of Halberdiers you may meet and Slamanders of course use template weapons so maybe keep the two salamanders then.

I would be more worried about the artillery than the infantry - Empire are only behind Dwarfs and possibly Skaven in the amount of artillery they can use and how good their artillery is.

 

[airjamy]

Seriously? State Troops are pretty awful if I remember rightly - typical horde troops - and Greatswords have great weapons so would Always Strike Last, so Saurus would be able to decimate them before they strike (unless they have some stupid special rule that allows them to ignore Always Strikes Last somehow, but they’re just humans so they shouldn’t). They also only have 1 attack and Strength 5 with the Great Weapon so aren’t that scary. Halberdiers may have Strength 4, but they can’t use their shields in combat (two-handed weapons) so only have a 6+ Save in melee. If you buff your Saurus with magic to make them more defensive and maybe take two units of them rather than one large one (more manoeuvrability and able to mash two of his units at once) then you should be OK. Certainly the Stegadon’s bolt thrower will be great against any hordes of Halberdiers you may meet and Slamanders of course use template weapons so maybe keep the two salamanders then.

I would be more worried about the artillery than the infantry - Empire are only behind Dwarfs and possibly Skaven in the amount of artillery they can use and how good their artillery is.

Greatswords would strike last, but i often saw them in units of 30-40, which would kill this unit. In this point total however, that is not that likely.

I would be afraid of said halberdiers, also in 1K, you can get a unit of 40 with a Warrior Priest for a decent price, granting you 30 (probably 26-ish attacks due to bases) WS3, rerolled, S4 attacks. That packs a punch, with around 6-7 wounds in the first round of combat, disregarding what the Warrior Priest would ad. If you can use something like Wildform on your Sauri though, you would indeed be fine.