AoS Endless Spells and Kroak/Slaan

[Boshea]

Something dumb I was messing with
Kroak
Slaan
Astrolith
Eternity Warden
Starpriest
Starpriest
5 Saurus Guard
5 Saurus Guard
5 Saurus Guard
Troglodon
Eternal Starhost
Umbral Spellportal
Aethervoid Pendulum
Balewind Vortex
Chronomantic Cogs
Prismatic Palisade

Could probably replace the Trog with more spells, but seems like a silly list to run. Build a bunker for Kroak and the Slaan behind Palisde and the Eternal host. Use the Astrolith to give all your wizards +1 to cast, Have the Skinks setup Palisade/Portal/Cogs, throw the slaan onto the Vortex to get a summon engine to field the rest of your army, have kroak cast through the portal to tear apart the enemy or have the slaan launch the pendulum/missiles through a teleported skink/trog.

 

[Deed525]

Something dumb I was messing with
Kroak
Slaan
Astrolith
Eternity Warden
Starpriest
Starpriest
5 Saurus Guard
5 Saurus Guard
5 Saurus Guard
Troglodon
Eternal Starhost
Umbral Spellportal
Aethervoid Pendulum
Balewind Vortex
Chronomantic Cogs
Prismatic Palisade

Could probably replace the Trog with more spells, but seems like a silly list to run. Build a bunker for Kroak and the Slaan behind Palisde and the Eternal host. Use the Astrolith to give all your wizards +1 to cast, Have the Skinks setup Palisade/Portal/Cogs, throw the slaan onto the Vortex to get a summon engine to field the rest of your army, have kroak cast through the portal to tear apart the enemy or have the slaan launch the pendulum/missiles through a teleported skink/trog.

Not enough meat for the grinder

 

[Aginor]

I also fear that when a few of your casts fail then you will have a hard time defending against heavy hitters your opponent might throw at you. The Eternal Starhost will keep most horde stuff at bay, but mortal wounds will decimate them very quickly.

 

[tom]

Page 53 of the Malign Sorcery book under UNBINDING and DISPELLING

In order to dispel an endless spell,
first pick an endless spell model
within 30" of the wizard and visible
to them, and roll 2D6

So you do need LoS

Forgive my nit picking but that is for dispelling and quoted from an 'optional' expansion. It seems clear that you need Los to dispel which adds some tactics to the placement of buff spells, however I can't see that this supports the position that you need Los to unbind an attempted cast of the spells in the core game .

 

[Crowsfoot]

Forgive my nit picking but that is for dispelling and quoted from an 'optional' expansion. It seems clear that you need Los to dispel which adds some tactics to the placement of buff spells, however I can't see that this supports the position that you need Los to unbind an attempted cast of the spells in the core game .

That is a fair comment and your right it is not from the core rules.

I have read the core rules umpteen times and still not noticed anything about LoS for dispel.

 

[tom]

Thanks, seems like we're on the same page then . Don't want to unfairly map wide unbind from behind a rock unless it's legit. Mwahahah

 

[Vexcor]

so LoS is important for dispell. In case you put vortex on board, the enemy cant unbind it,
he can try to dispell it in his hero phase with LoS in 30" with a roll 2D6 and need an 8 correct?

 

[Crowsfoot]

Thanks, seems like we're on the same page then . Don't want to unfairly map wide unbind from behind a rock unless it's legit. Mwahahah

Only thing I have found is in the box with the title Unit Of Wizards

Wizards are usually fielded
as a unit consisting of just
one model. If a unit with the
Wizard keyword has more
than one model, it counts as
a single wizard for all rules
purposes, and you must pick
a model from the unit to cast
or unbind a spell before you
attempt to cast or unbind it;
measure the distance and
check visibility using the model
you picked.

But that looks more of a general term not specifically about dispel.

 

[tom]

Hmm I'm already feeling a bit bad for completely shutting down my buddies magic with arcane might, maybe we'll house rule it for Los make things more interesting tactically

 

[Taipan]

Things would get pretty insane if you could double up on any of the utility spells. Multiple Cogs for example.

Yeah for dispelling, you need Line of Sight. Which is why the Palisade is so good, it's cheap and eats a dispel.

Malign Sorcery is only optional in the sense that you both agree to use it. It's very much part of the core game. It's Matched Play legal, so you should expect it (especially as it's pretty much going to help every army provided they have at least 1-2 Wizards).

 

[Boshea]

Things would get pretty insane if you could double up on any of the utility spells. Multiple Cogs for example.

Yeah for dispelling, you need Line of Sight. Which is why the Palisade is so good, it's cheap and eats a dispel.

Malign Sorcery is only optional in the sense that you both agree to use it. It's very much part of the core game. It's Matched Play legal, so you should expect it (especially as it's pretty much going to help every army provided they have at least 1-2 Wizards).

The only thing I consider truly optional in the Malign book is using Realm rules. Those seem to be the only things that really throw a wrench into things with Realm lores and buffing specific spells. The Endless Spells themselves and Realm artifacts are all pretty fair.

 

[Vexcor]

if you cast an endless spell, can the enemy try to unbind it?
cogs for example:
you need a cast of 7 to cast cogs, the enemy need an 8 to unbind it.
in his turn, the emeny can try to dispell it with an 8.

so does the enemy have 2 chances to get ride of the endless spell?

 

[Boshea]

if you cast an endless spell, can the enemy try to unbind it?
cogs for example:
you need a cast of 7 to cast cogs, the enemy need an 8 to unbind it.
in his turn, the emeny can try to dispell it with an 8.

so does the enemy have 2 chances to get ride of the endless spell?

Yes. It can be unbound like any other spell when cast, and then you can give up a spell in your turn to try and unbind it against the base cast value.

 

[Aginor]

Yes. That is another thing that limits the usefulness of some of them - like the Prismatic Palisade - that have low casting values.

We as Seraphon can do a trick though: With a Slann and an Astrolith Bearer we can stay far away from enemy wizards so at least in turn 1 we can cast the spells and use the extended range.

 

[Taipan]

I think Palisade is solid because it has to be dealt with. Especially as a dispel barrier, because the Palisade dispel has to succeed or they can't even get LOS on the Balewind/Cogs behind it. Also eats an unbind when initially cast as well, which is excellent.

The Astrolith buff currently stacks as well which is dumb and will probably be FAQ'd.

 

[Aginor]

Both the Palisade and the Gravetide are great blockers, the enemy has to dispel them or face a road block.
In my next game against Jronjawz I will probably try a shooting list, and blocking the IJs' movement by putting stuff in their way. The lists I play against usually only have 2-3 spell slots at their disposal, so shutting down their casting, thus denying them the use of endless spells, and also blocking their movement might work. Palisade, Gravetide and Shackles aren't too expensive, might work...

 

[Crowsfoot]

Both the Palisade and the Gravetide are great blockers, the enemy has to dispel them or face a road block.
In my next game against Jronjawz I will probably try a shooting list, and blocking the IJs' movement by putting stuff in their way. The lists I play against usually only have 2-3 spell slots at their disposal, so shutting down their casting, thus denying them the use of endless spells, and also blocking their movement might work. Palisade, Gravetide and Shackles aren't too expensive, might work...

How have you found IJs in 2, harder to beat or still easy?

 

[Aginor]

How have you found IJs in 2, harder to beat or still easy?

Definitely harder.
I think I didn't lose a single game against them in the whole year 2017, I didn't even come close to losing more than once or twice. Most of the time the game could have ended in round 2 and we just continued for another roundm just for fun.
My Deathrattle army (who would be a decent match for my Seraphon I think) did win the first game of AoS2 by a hair, with a bit of luck. That one could have gone either way. The second AoS2 game against IJs (also playing Deathratte, but with a VLoZD in the 2k list) was lost.
Granted, with adjusted tactics (taking into account that I should counter the endless spells and snipe the Megaboss) I will probably still be on top with both Seraphon and Death most of the time, but I do have the feeling that the gap is a lot smaller in AoS2 than it was before, mainly because of Endless Spells and Command Point stacking.