AoS Are Allies worth it?

[theodoris]

Since we can only ally with stormcast.
Are there any worth using?
i have seen lists with Celestant-Prime, Hammer of Sigmar, 1 big scary monster.
I`m asking because i would like to get new models, and i have all the seraphon models.

Maybe it`s fun to use the stormcast as allies?

 

[Canas]

Ignoring the new stuff the following SCE nonsense does things we can't (or are just quite good) and can be worth taking:
Also. I'm not paying attention to points cuz too much effort


Celestant prime: big scary dude with mortal wounds.
Celestant on stardrake: big scary dude with mortal wounds.
Both of these are essentially armies on their own so they'l basicly Always be "worthwhile" allies even if you have no particular synergy with em.

Any of the various dracoths: awesome statline, mortal wounds, rend, minor ranged firepower. All things we rather lack, making them great if you just want some elite troops.

Retributors: mortal wounds, decent statline, cheap enough to be able to get a couple of units. The main benefit of them being they add some reliable mortal wounds.

Judicators: ranged firepower, also their magic crossbow is hilariously effective against regular troops with it's (near) guaranteed D3 mortal wounds.
Knight-venator: ranged firepower.
Vanguard raptors: ranged firepower.
Basicly any ranged firepower is advantageous for us and they have some ridiculous stuff in that aspect.

Those I would say are the most viable to take as allies.

 

[Aginor]

@Canas basically has it covered. A few work, especially and especially stuff that doesn't rely too much on synergies and stuff that can do mortal wounds or ranged damage is worth a look.

 

[Killer Angel]

I would give a chance also to prosecutors ( the javelin version).
Cheap unit, flying dudes with high mobility and good shooting. Nice support unit

 

[professor_lust]

Super new to AOS

just to verify my understanding of how allies work:

If we choose Allegiance Seraphon we can't take lizard men but if we take Allegiance: Order we can?

The draw back being that if Seraphon don't take Allegiance Seraphon we lose out on the Seraphon specific rules?

 

[Tokek]

Seraphon do not need allies but a few of them might be fun or might add in something you really want.

The Knight Incantor is quite tempting for her auto-unbind, that could be useful against a Nagash list where unbinding one key step in the chain of magical domination could keep you in the game for a turn.

Although as Seraphon are arguably the most ridiculous thing in the game right now just putting more dinosaurs and lizards in your list will usually be the strongest option. Is *anything* a better use of the points than putting another Engine of the Gods in a list??

 

[Canas]

Super new to AOS

just to verify my understanding of how allies work:

If we choose Allegiance Seraphon we can't take lizard men but if we take Allegiance: Order we can?

The draw back being that if Seraphon don't take Allegiance Seraphon we lose out on the Seraphon specific rules?

lizard men aren't a thing in AOS, lizardmen is how the seraphon were called in warhammer fantasy.

In general though, if you take a certain allegiance you can only take stuff from specific allies outside of that allegiance and only a limited amount of points. E.g. Seraphon can only take SCE as allies and at max 400 points in a 2500 game.

Seraphon do not need allies but a few of them might be fun or might add in something you really want.

meh, our ranged fire power is fairly abysmall and we're generally lacking stat-wise. In general we might not need allies, but in specific match-ups where those weaknesses are abused allies are a very welcome addition.

Is *anything* a better use of the points than putting another Engine of the Gods in a list??

Quite a lot probably. The change to its summoning rules have massivly improved it from it's previous incarnation but it's nowhere near a godlike unit. It still lacks focus in it's purpose & is still too unreliable to build around. Spamming EoTG's might be funny, and occasionally you'l win a match by just spawning 40+ skinks per turn or some such nonsense. But I'd find it unlikely to be viable to build an entire army around.

 

[Tokek]

Quite a lot probably. The change to its summoning rules have massivly improved it from it's previous incarnation but it's nowhere near a godlike unit. It still lacks focus in it's purpose & is still too unreliable to build around. Spamming EoTG's might be funny, and occasionally you'l win a match by just spawning 40+ skinks per turn or some such nonsense. But I'd find it unlikely to be viable to build an entire army around.

Early feedback from the 6 nations was that EoTG's were pretty god-tier powerful when taken in numbers. It feels like there should be a counter but perhaps nobody has found it yet; early days of the new edition.

 

[professor_lust]

@Canas

There still exists a very minor Battletome for the Lizardmen of which there are exactly 4 models listed. These have the order key word but not the Seraphon Keyword.

I'm mostly just trying to make sense of the various list building requirements.

 

[Canas]

Early feedback from the 6 nations was that EoTG's were pretty god-tier powerful when taken in numbers. It feels like there should be a counter but perhaps nobody has found it yet; early days of the new edition.

Meh, unless people have figured out how to keep em alive easily despite sending them to the frontline while also managing to keep the enemy from surrounding it and thus leaving no space to summon they should have various weaknesses that can be abused.

Isn't it just the case that they're fielded alongside a slann augmenting his far more impressive summoning mechanics and looking impressive while doing so but they themselves don't actually do most of the work?

@Canas

There still exists a very minor Battletome for the Lizardmen of which there are exactly 4 models listed. These have the order key word but not the Seraphon Keyword.

I'm mostly just trying to make sense of the various list building requirements.

Haven't those been erratad to be seraphon?

Rules as written we'd not be able to take em as allies then I guess (without errata) but I doubt anyone will really argue against it seeing as they clearly should be part of the seraphon.

 

[Nart]

Early feedback from the 6 nations was that EoTG's were pretty god-tier powerful when taken in numbers. It feels like there should be a counter but perhaps nobody has found it yet; early days of the new edition.

I smell a nerf coming...

 

[professor_lust]

Haven't those been erratad to be seraphon?

Rules as written we'd not be able to take em as allies then I guess (without errata) but I doubt anyone will really argue against it seeing as they clearly should be part of the seraphon.

id love for that to be true.

mostly because I want to actually play swarms as chaff units

 

[Tokek]

I smell a nerf coming...

Yes, I think the honest answer to every "is it gonna be good" question is to wait at least unit after the usual FAQ 2 weeks after the release.

Feedback from 6 nations may or may not make it into that first FAQ but the Seraphon did seem to be able to put some pretty broken stuff on the table so right now allies probably just dilute the awesomeness of our star lizards.

 

[Aginor]

I think a Lord Incantor may really be worth it as an ally. That allows you to take the SCE endless spells which are not too shabby.
Imagine a target hit by Kroaks comet spell, then the SCE comet, and maybe even another endless spell, all without anything the enemy can do against those because you can summon them from outside the unbind radius.
I am going to try that (proxying the Incantor though)

 

[Aginor]

Talking about allies:
I sometimes included a Gryph Hound in my Seraphon lists when I feared deep strikes.
Now Gryph Hounds are 140 points, in units of 6. Not bad because I bought a whole pack....
....until I noticed that only SCE units can profit from their ability now.

To be honest I am a bit sad because I have no other SCE so I will never play them again.
Why did GW have to change that? I am not aware of any broken lists because of them (except freeguild gun lines perhaps?)

 

[Putzfrau]

I imagine allying in the new ballistas will be good. High rend long range firepower is always nice to have around.

 

[Canas]

I imagine allying in the new ballistas will be good. High rend long range firepower is always nice to have around.

given how stupidly powerfull they are, yeah should be a nice addition for us.

 

[Putzfrau]

given how stupidly powerfull they are, yeah should be a nice addition for us.

2 ballistas, an incanter and an everblaze comet is a really nice way to spend 340 points.

Gives seraphon access to long range, high rend attacks, long range mortal wounds, and a dispell.

Edit: 440 points

 

[Canas]

2 ballistas, an incanter and an everblaze comet is a really nice way to spend 340 points.

Gives seraphon access to long range, high rend attacks, long range mortal wounds, and a dispell.

seriously.. that's only 340 points? that's stupidly cheap..

 

[Killer Angel]

I believe we can easily sum it up.
SCE have strong and powerful units, that don't need synergies to work at full power and that cover all' the possible roles in the game.

If you want to use allies, Yes, they are worth it.

But we can do by ourself: out strenght is that we don't need them.